Home Schooling, WOW, criminals, teenage escapades..

[Snero]

Yes but what does that have to do with the curriculum? That's just because children are mean. Suck it up and you can be as big an individual as you want, it has nothing to do with public schools trying to "brainwash" you.

Ahh..but that's the thing. I wasn't talking about curriculum...I was talking about the 'socialization' kids get.

At no other time in their lives are people segregated by age. As an adult I have friends of all ages. While in school that was frowned upon. There's no other purpose to pigeon-holing kids by age than to teach them conformity with other kids their age.

It's a ridiculous way of doing things, because kids the same age can be on vastly different levels of maturity and comprehension.

kids aren't pigeon holed by age, they're divided based on level of knowledge, if you're ahead of everybody else you skip a year, if you're not you can get held back. The way the system works is that teaching is done in steps, you learn one thing, then you move onto another.

[Lyion]

Are we talking Canada or the US? I'm curious if you have much experience with US schools. Especially in urban areas.

Kids are often pigeonholed by age, race, income, or for any other reason to segregate. This includes how they are treated, graded, and looked upon both by their teachers and their peers.

Schools in a lot of US locations are both unsafe, and harsh nasty places where people display the type of hateful behavior we see on these boards so often.

Even the better schools are places that can wreck a kids ego and make them hurt. Face it, kids are mean, and peer pressure often results in hurtful behavior that can make the best academic kid a mess solely due to the problems his peers cause.

The system is fine in theory, but in reality there are a lot of schools that are simple pain factories that make Academics wrongly the last thing on someones mind.

I'd say Canada is different, but unfortunately Zanchief and Tikker post enough hateful stuff in a similar vein to the bullies of American schools, that I doubt it. I do think a lot of guys, like me, didn't experience the same problems girls did, since there is a lot less BS for a guy in high school or jr high school, but I still have pretty good memories of how cruel, nasty, and dehumanizing school was for so many kids I was around, and I believe this sort of nastiness is what eventually leads to the problems we see in places like Virginia Tech.

[Martrae]

There's no other purpose to pigeon-holing kids by age than to teach them conformity with other kids their age.

So you'd like to teach 3000 kids in a one room schoolhouse like the old days?

Exaggerate much? One room schoolhouses generally only had a dozen students....usually less. And isn't that what I'm basically doing now? One room schoolhouse taught by a former student?

[Zanchief]

I'd say Canada is different, but unfortunately Zanchief and Tikker post enough hateful stuff in a similar vein to the bullies of American schools, that I doubt it.

Where the hell does that come from?

[Zanchief]

There's no other purpose to pigeon-holing kids by age than to teach them conformity with other kids their age.

So you'd like to teach 3000 kids in a one room schoolhouse like the old days?

Exaggerate much? One room schoolhouses generally only had a dozen students....usually less. And isn't that what I'm basically doing now? One room schoolhouse taught by a former student?

But you have to separate the kids into manageable classes. How is age not the most logical determining factor? I don't understand your position.

[Reynaldo]

I went to 3 years at Catholic high school then 1 year at public high school. The main differernce to me was that in the private school, the teachers had the "power" and you knew it. Discipline was a lot better.

At public school, teachers were alot more afraid of the class, and let all kinds of bad behavior ensue in class, basically just wanted to make it through the class without a chair flying or something.

And this wasn't even a "bad" public high school by general standards.

That being said...I'm very grateful for my year of public school because if I would have spent all 4 years in the private school, I'd have been much more educated by books, but exponentially less educated in "real-world" scenarios where discipline doesn't always reign supreme.

If I had my druthers...for my kids (if/when i have one!), I'll do everything I can to make sure they attend private schools, but would love to see some kinds of programs where they could attend classes at a local public school one day a week or something (and in turn invite the public school kids to attend one day a week at my kid's school), just to get that other perspective.

[Martrae]

There's no other purpose to pigeon-holing kids by age than to teach them conformity with other kids their age.

So you'd like to teach 3000 kids in a one room schoolhouse like the old days?

Exaggerate much? One room schoolhouses generally only had a dozen students....usually less. And isn't that what I'm basically doing now? One room schoolhouse taught by a former student?

But you have to separate the kids into manageable classes. How is age not the most logical determining factor? I don't understand your position.

As an example...I'll use my own kids.

Breanna is currently 8 but she's reading books like Harry Potter. Her comprehension and vocabulary are on a 4th grade level. Her math is on a 2nd grade level (although the program we use already does pre-algebra), which is where she would be in a public school.

Liam would be put into a 1st grade class in a public school. His reading and vocabulary are consistent with that. However, his math is on a 2nd-3rd grade level because he loves it so much. I actually have slowed down his math progress a bit so I don't run out of curriculum before he hits High School, otherwise he'd probably be at least 4th grade.

Riley shouldn't even be in K yet, but he's doing 1st grade math.

They are all doing history and science that in most schools isn't taught until at least 4th grade.

If they were to go to public school next year they'd all actually regress in several areas to conform with what's being taught to their 'peers'.

Ideally, kids should be separated by ability, but you'll always have some parent screwing that up by either pushing their child too hard or complaining their child's ego is permanently damaged.

[Zanchief]

But your kids would just skip grades until they would be placed in the appropriate grade. They could be the Doogie Howsers of the new generation.

[araby]

But your kids would just skip grades until they would be placed in the appropriate grade. They could be the Doogie Howsers of the new generation.

okay, let's just give them some social issues now. no problem.

[araby]

then they can blame being gay on home-schooling. hahahaha

[Martrae]

But your kids would just skip grades until they would be placed in the appropriate grade. They could be the Doogie Howsers of the new generation.

But then they'd be behind in some areas.

Also, some schools don't skip grades....some don't even have "gifted" classes until 3rd grade. One of the moms in my homeschool loop sent her son back to school for a couple months you can read her blog for the how well that went.

[Zanchief]

Curious what you would do to solve that problem. Would you have public elementary schools have different classes like a University and let the kids get exempt from certain classes by taking a test?

There is no doubt in my mind that you can teach your kids WAY more by home schooling then they'd ever learn in public school.

[Martrae]

A university approach (with smaller classes than a university) would be great, actually. As long as they met the pre-reqs and took so many classes a year it'd be a much better system that what's currently in place.

The hard part would be getting young kids to the proper classes.

[Lyion]

I'd say Canada is different, but unfortunately Zanchief and Tikker post enough hateful stuff in a similar vein to the bullies of American schools, that I doubt it.

Where the hell does that come from?

See Kizzys .sig file. Although you seem to be less viciously sarcastic and overtly mean of late and certainly are much different than Tikker who has no issue tossing rude and nasty bombs at the drop of a hat.

When piling on Harrison or any of the others like that, you had no problem joining the queue. For some reason that strikes me similar to the clicks in school that essentially did the same thing, tormenting others in an effort to be 'cool'. I can't just point the finger at you, or I'd be a hypocrit. I do the same, and I wasn't the best example in high school.

Anyways, to follow up, the answer is to get away from the unempowered over regulated tenured system of schools to one of choice that allows for more discipline and community interaction, with less teachers union control that will allow the type of environment that has more of an academic bent and promotes learning and less of a prison and work release mentality that so many American schools seem to be, now.

[Zanchief]

Well our high school was like that. We had classes, not grades. It wouldn't be uncommon for someone to have many classes in either grades above or below you. I assume most high schools are like that.

Elementary schools (or what do you call in middle school?) I think that might be a bit much for a 6 or 7 year old.

[Lyion]

Actually, I'd like to demolish our complete educational system and go to one that teaches the basics to age 16/10th grade, and then graduates them and enrolls people in Tech, Trade, or pre college schools to give them better skills for the real world or to actually prepare them for college.

[Zanchief]

When piling on Harrison or any of the others like that, you had no problem joining the queue. For some reason that strikes me similar to the clicks in school that essentially did the same thing, tormenting others in an effort to be 'cool'. I can't just point the finger at you, or I'd be a hypocrit. I do the same, and I wasn't the best example in high school.

That doesn't count, Harrison isn't a person, he's a parody.

[Tossica]

I think you are full of shit Martrae. I think your kids would get eaten alive in a public school setting and that's why you home school. I know it probably feels all warm and fuzzy to think that your kids are so much smarter than anything a public school could offer but in reality, there are kids in every school that LOVE to learn and there are teachers that really LOVE to teach. If your kids are as brilliant as you claim, there are programs out there for them that can and will do a much better job preparing them for the real world than you ever could.

I went to grade school in Plant City Florida which was about the poorest and most ignorant community I can imagine and even in that situation there were organizations looking for brilliant kids. I was picked up every Friday and brought to a school in Tampa where I was required to take a second language and could choose from Russian, French, Spanish or German. We had to take geology, biology and chemistry. We had to take algebra and higher level math courses and our english classes consisted of advanced literature and composition courses. We also had our choice of electives like photography, stop motion film making, science fiction writing, comic illustration, astronomy, paleontology, etc. I was 9 years old when I started the program and when I left at age 12, they were going to graduate me from high school but my parents decided against it. Yes, this was all provided in a PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM and a shitty one at that.

I have a hard time believing you would be able to provide that kind of experience for your brilliant little offspring let alone provide them with the necessary socialization to become a productive member or society.

The point is, the rules are there as a general guideline but they do NOT have to be followed in order to get through the "system". There are plenty or ways out and many programs out there willing to work with kids that are really smart or that need special education. Your view of public schools is very narrow and uninformed.

[Tacks]

From reading this thread I've come to the conclusion that Martrae has absolutely no idea how the modern educational system works. That is all~ I'm guessing they both got picked on in school and think the same will happen to their kids because they were both social degenerates. Onto that issue, based on what seems to be you and your husbands social interaction I see you post here at all times of the day so teaching social interaction by a social retard as yourself should be an interesting experiment on their behavior in their developing years.

PS: there are NO mean and judgemental people at all outside of high school, true story

[Martrae]

Didn't you later drop out and live in dumpsters or something?

[Tossica]

Didn't you later drop out and live in dumpsters or something?

Something like that.

[Zanchief]

There are people who like to learn in dumpsters too, Martrae.

[Tacks]

Eh in their case I think you're right. I'm sure they know their kids are the stereotypical nerds and would get picked on left and right.

[Lyion]

there are NO mean and judgemental people at all outside of high school, true story

There is some truth and fiction here. College is nothing like high school, and people there pay and want to be there, generally. Also, due to the sense of urgency and the nature of what universities are, they are vastly different peer wise and socially than high school/Jr High.

However, I do think the idea of learning to deal with people and developing a tougher skin is indeed something that is missing in a lot of home schooling environments.

I went to both public and private schools. The private schools are more akin to universities. The public school I went to was more akin to a jail.

[Tacks]

I think I'd be more lenient on the entire social behavioring thing if it didn't seem like Martrae and Kahar were completely clueless in that aspect to begin with. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I doubt it.