I knew it was bad, but...

[Arlos]

I didn't know the bungling in handling Iraq post-war was *THIS* bad... Awesome Time Magazine article from George Tenet on just how badly the administration fucked up post-war in Iraq, and how we did it.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... nn-partner

Warning: It's 3 pages long, so the short-attention-span set be advised.

I am now even more disgusted with Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, et al than I was before, and I didn't think that was possible. The administration is entirely to blame for the mess we're in now in Iraq. Whether you believe or not the war was a good idea to begin with or not, I don't think that any sane person can argue anything other than that the administration was grossly incompetent in how it handled the post-war.

-Arlos

[Evermore]

I didn't know the bungling in handling Iraq post-war was *THIS* bad... Awesome Time Magazine article from George Tenet on just how badly the administration fucked up post-war in Iraq, and how we did it.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... nn-partner

Warning: It's 3 pages long, so the short-attention-span set be advised.

I am now even more disgusted with Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, et al than I was before, and I didn't think that was possible. The administration is entirely to blame for the mess we're in now in Iraq. Whether you believe or not the war was a good idea to begin with or not, I don't think that any sane person can argue anything other than that the administration was grossly incompetent in how it handled the post-war.

-Arlos

I'm just sorry some refuse to see this.

[Lyion]

Ignoring the fact Tenet should be fired in 01, the truth is never far behind....

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

Far be it from me to inject truth in the weekly Arlos Kool Aid Bush attack post, though.

Tenet is trying to save his Legacy. His credibility ain't the greatest, and I'm not buying a lot of what he's saying. It's tough to argue Rumsfeld fucked up post invasion, but that is different from what Tenet is trying to portray in this piece. Someone who has fucked up as bad as he has, should shut his mouth, regardless of what his party, the DNC, wants from him.

If you're trying to pretend you didn't know the fuckup that was the disbanding of the military which was the real clusterfuck, which is Tenets main point, it really makes me wonder if you are doing anything outside of a normal Bush hit piece.

[Arlos]

Um, the Snopes article solely discusses the lead-up to war, and the WMD justification. The Time article is not on that at all. Did you even read it? The Time article is almost solely about the POST-war debacle, it isn't about whether or not he said Slam Dunk, etc. Funny how you claim he's suddenly a tool of the DNC now as well. I realize that's your standard line to try and discredit the messenger further, but come up with a new one for a change, hmm?

Yes, I knew that one of our biggest fuckups was disbanding the army, along with the de-baathification program. But so was imposing a government on them that we could control, rather than going the organic route and bring the entire country together (rather than our hand-picked exiles) to determine a government.

It's completely obvious too that the Administration never had any idea what was going on over there. See: Cheney's "Last throes" comment of a couple years back in regards to the insurgency. How ridiculously wrong was that, hmmm?

-Arlos

[Harrison]

Never let politicians run a war.

[Arlos]

That's just the thing though, the WAR part ran fine. I still don't think we should have gone, but that's not what we're discussing here. The actual WAR part was run fine.

It is the AFTER the war part that has been historically badly bungled. The last thing we want is the military making political decisions and constructing governments on its own without guidance by our government. So, everything that has happened after the intial conquering of Iraq is entirely the responsibility of the Bush administration. They utterly fucked it up, period.

Incompetance. Sheer incompetance. And worst, it is incompetance and errors that were the result of blind adherence to ideology and ivory tower beliefs, as opposed to actually looking realistically at the situation.

-Arlos

[Lyion]

The point is Tenet makes a lot of absurd observations in this article, which he agreed to for the main purpose of selling his book.

Again, this thread is just another in your weekly Bush bashing silliness that really has gotten tired and old. You hate the GOP. We got it. You made no actual points in your original post except the same tired old bullshit you post ad nauseum.

I have said over and over State should have run the deal the moment the ground combat operations ended. That said, things were decided on based on poor intel and thoughts on the best way to proceed.

Regardless, you're ignoring of the fact the Iraqi's developed their own constitution without any input from us, the Iraqi's held open elections without any input from us, and the simple truth that we started to, have been, and are transitioning power refutes the crux of a lot of Tenets argument. The facts call out the idiocy of this article and the preface that we were occupying Iraq. Great for moonbats who have been swearing at Bush for years to come out and make another silly thread, but not based in factual or good assertation.

None of this changes the fact Tenet is a douchebag who fucked up and should be given about as much of an ear as any posting from Evermore or you about the GOP.

The problem was not that we controlled Iraq. It was that we sat in the Green Zone and let all the municipalities control themselves, and many were Ba'athists or unfriendly areas with a lot of streaming foreign fighters and Al Qaeda personnel. This is the opposite of what Tenet says, but it's not surprising given how incompetent the man is.

Don't take my word on it. Feel free to read the moonbat Ny Times

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/29/world/middleeast/29ramadi.html?ex=1335499200&en=9b8482299f73ca17&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss]
Uneasy Alliance Is Taming One Insurgent Bastion[/url]

RAMADI, Iraq — Anbar Province, long the lawless heartland of the tenacious Sunni Arab resistance, is undergoing a surprising transformation. Violence is ebbing in many areas, shops and schools are reopening, police forces are growing and the insurgency appears to be in retreat.

“Many people are challenging the insurgents,” said the governor of Anbar, Maamoon S. Rahid, though he quickly added, “We know we haven’t eliminated the threat 100 percent.”

Many Sunni tribal leaders, once openly hostile to the American presence, have formed a united front with American and Iraqi government forces against Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia. With the tribal leaders’ encouragement, thousands of local residents have joined the police force. About 10,000 police officers are now in Anbar, up from several thousand a year ago. During the same period, the police force here in Ramadi, the provincial capital, has grown from fewer than 200 to about 4,500, American military officials say.

At the same time, American and Iraqi forces have been conducting sweeps of insurgent strongholds, particularly in and around Ramadi, leaving behind a network of police stations and military garrisons, a strategy that is also being used in Baghdad, Iraq’s capital, as part of its new security plan.

Yet for all the indications of a heartening turnaround in Anbar, the situation, as it appeared during more than a week spent with American troops in Ramadi and Falluja in early April, is at best uneasy and fragile.

Municipal services remain a wreck; local governments, while reviving, are still barely functioning; and years of fighting have damaged much of Ramadi.

The insurgency in Anbar — a mix of Islamic militants, former Baathists and recalcitrant tribesmen — still thrives among the province’s overwhelmingly Sunni population, killing American and Iraqi security forces and civilians alike. [This was underscored by three suicide car-bomb attacks in Ramadi on Monday and Tuesday, in which at least 15 people were killed and 47 were wounded, American officials said. Eight American service members — five marines and three soldiers — were killed in two attacks on Thursday and Friday in Anbar, the American military said.]

Furthermore, some American officials readily acknowledge that they have entered an uncertain marriage of convenience with the tribes, some of whom were themselves involved in the insurgency, to one extent or another. American officials are also negotiating with elements of the 1920 Revolution Brigades, a leading insurgent group in Anbar, to join their fight against Al Qaeda.

These sudden changes have raised questions about the ultimate loyalties of the United States’ new allies. “One day they’re laying I.E.D.’s, the next they’re police collecting a pay check,” said Lt. Thomas R. Mackesy, an adviser to an Iraqi Army unit in Juwayba, east of Ramadi, referring to improvised explosive devices.

And it remains unclear whether any of the gains in Anbar will transfer to other troubled areas of Iraq — like Baghdad, Diyala Province, Mosul and Kirkuk, where violence rages and the ethnic and sectarian landscape is far more complicated.

Still, the progress has inspired an optimism in the American command that, among some officials, borders on giddiness. It comes after years of fruitless efforts to drive a wedge between moderate resistance fighters and those, like Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, who seem beyond compromise...

[Eziekial]

It's a "slam dunk."

[Gargamellow]

[Jay]

Cliff notes?

[Eziekial]

I was referring to his statement concerning the probability of Saddam having WMDs. Tenet is an idiot plain and simple. He was in charge and was to blame for the majority of the shit he is point his finger at now. Lyion is absolutely right, he is simply trying to salvage a legacy. Unlike Brown, he was the one person whom the desicion makers listened to. Unfortunately, he had nothing useful to say.

[brinstar]

lyion if you're going to accuse arlos of repeating his same old "the bushies are worthless" line, perhaps you should avoid using your same old "well your guys are worthlesser so there!! nyah nyah!!!" line

[Harrison]

At least in this case it is directly related seeing as the excerpt was written by who is on the receiving end of his "line".

[Yamori]

You made no actual points in your original post except the same tired old bullshit you post ad nauseum.

I'd say his weekly ad nauseum posts are directly proportioned to the administration's constant chanting of "Support the troops. Give our strategy a chance. We're making progress. We can't embolden the enemy." that's been going on since the war began.

[Lyion]

lyion if you're going to accuse arlos of repeating his same old "the bushies are worthless" line, perhaps you should avoid using your same old "well your guys are worthlesser so there!! nyah nyah!!!" line

Yup, I should just answer and not post like that. It's a failing of mine that I need to fix.