Ron Paul 2008

[Zanchief]

Take all the money you spend on health care, give it to the government. Spread out to everyone and do away with all these silly malpractice lawsuits.

[10sun]

We are talking about the United States Goverment. All of the sudden you have faith in it?

How can you be so fucking stupid?

[Snero]

governments are run by people, there is corruption in each and every one of them. Put your tin foil hat away, theres no reason it can't be done in the states if it's been done in canada, and just about everywhere else

[Tossica]

We are talking about the United States Goverment. All of the sudden you have faith in it?

How can you be so fucking stupid?

I have more faith in it than I do an insurance company coupled with a pharmaceutical company.

[Xaiveir]

Hence, tort reform being key.

Certainly Tort reform needs to be done in my opinion. However that will not make healthcare dramatically more affordable.

Having our taxes pay for our health coverage is a much better option. But, that does not mean tort reform cannot go hand in hand with that.

I understand your position on not wanting to fund for some fat fuck's healthcare, who's idea of grocery shopping is buying a block of cheese, and Mt. Dew. There are a large majority of people that would benefit from it, and deserve it. I dont believe you would want to not have a system just to screw one type of person.

[10sun]

I don't want that system because it is not in the scope of our government.
I don't want that system because it is just another waste of taxpayer's money.
I don't want that system because it will lead to a degredation of quality of care.
I don't want that system because it caters to those who will not help themselves (those who cannot already have systems in place to provide for them).

I believe that tort reform will help make healthcare dramatically more affordable as patients will not be subjected to an incredible battery of tests just to determine that they have a sprained ankle.

I believe that tort reform will help make healthcare dramatically more affordable as the costs of medications will be reduced.

Frivalous lawsuits are bleeding this country dry starting at the corporate levels & in turn working their way down to the working class.

[Zanchief]

So basically because you're covered who gives a shit about anyone else.

[Eziekial]

I'll have to look and see if I bookmarked some of the reports when I get home, at least a few of which were Congressional inquiries. Basically malpractice insurance while having risen constitutes a very small portion of the overall costs of providing health services. This is not to say it doesn't have an effect, the impact probably is hardest on general practitioners who run a small office, however the cost of a standard doctor visit for a cold is not what is actually driving up the health insurance cost, it is the costs of major medical services which is affected more by high dollar equipment, pharmaceuticals, and testing.

I've heard of this also. Health care is a very complicated problem as it involves a lot of big players and big issues such as pharmacutical companies and tort-reform. We can all agree that preventive care should be given in a country as well off as we are. The sticky points come at where you start drawing lines. If we are to have some form of "National" health care system we would have to make it "inpersonal" to avoid any nasty calls of profiling or discrimination. That means if you have a pulse and are in this country you have access to this system. Now, what does this system provide? Routine doctors visits? Mamograms, prostate exams, colonoscopy? MRIs? Cat Scans? Who gets to draw the line and where does it get drawn? Like Adam mentioned, people will get upset when lung transplants start going to 5 pack a day smokers on their dime. Imagine how upset you would be if your child's heart murmur operation has to wait in line for cardiovascular surgeons to finish numerous bypasses because people are on a supersized diet?

[10sun]

So basically because you're covered who gives a shit about anyone else.

Only if they are fat, stupid, &/or lazy.

Did you even bother reading any of my posts?

Let me put it nice & bold for you.

Healthcare reform will not & cannot be accomplished in the United States of America by creating another government health insurance agency.

The first step in healthcare reform in the United States of America would be tort reform. You can look at my prior post to obtain a basic understanding of why I believe this to be the case.

I'm sorry if you are having a hard time understanding this & cannot provide critical analysis of your own. I understand that you do not live in the United States of America & broad as your knowledge base may be, you do not have a comprehensive understanding of our current government system.

Do some research into our Medicare / Medicaid systems as well as our VA Hospitals. I held the stance of being pro-state sponsored health insurance just a few years ago while I was without health insurance coverage of my own beyond my catastrophe insurance (this was a choice of mine, I was healthy & could self medicate where I needed). Prior to getting full coverage again, my position changed because I took a better look at our current systems and realized that it would be a failure, very similar to our current social security system.

Not only that, but it would force many people to pay twice for basic coverage.

Nobody is being turned away from hospitals for life saving surgery at this point due to income levels. They are helped by administrative staff at the hospital through the application process for Medicaid if they qualify(& have time prior to treatment), if they do not qualify, then the question is raised, where is their income going to? They obviously did not care enough about their health & would rather overstretch their budgets to drive a new 4x4 every 3 years.

Should I be responsible as a taxpayer for someone who does not care about their own health?[/b]

[Zanchief]

I held the stance of being pro-state sponsored health insurance just a few years ago while I was without health insurance coverage of my own beyond my catastrophe insurance (this was a choice of mine, I was healthy & could self medicate where I needed). Prior to getting full coverage again, my position changed because I took a better look at our current systems and realized that it would be a failure, very similar to our current social security system.

Were you fat and lazy?

My point exactly. See how I did that without being a belligerent asshole.

You've been increasingly hateful and confrontational lately. You're not nearly clever enough to pull it off.

[10sun]

I understood the consequences & my budget requirements should something bad happen.

I could write it off my hostility as a combination of quitting smoking & the fact my landlord hasn't fucking fixed my air conditioning yet, but that would be a cop out.

I would probably write it off as a combination of stress from school & being outside excercising.

I was by no means trying to be hostile & resort to ad hominem attacks, this however is a heated subject & the post where I asked "How can you be so fucking stupid?" was tongue in cheek. I suppose the hippocracy was lost on many of you.

-Adam

[Yamori]

Has any politician or activist ever asked the doctors themselves what they think of all this?...

[10sun]

Ron Paul was a physician *shrug*

[Lueyen]

Mart I didn't book mark the reports I was looking at so I'll have to find them again, as I recall they were GAO reports and a quick look finds most are on the reasons for increase of malpractice insurance, and not on the cost comparison between malpractice insurance and other costs.

I'll have to keep looking, but it may be this weekend before I get a chance.

[Martrae]

Ron Paul was a physician *shrug*

Who refused to take Medicare or Medicaid. Speaks pretty loudly about his position on the subject.

[Tossica]

Ron Paul was a physician *shrug*

Who refused to take Medicare or Medicaid. Speaks pretty loudly about his position on the subject.

Most physicians and congressman make enough money to opt out of medicare.

[10sun]

Ron Paul was a physician *shrug*

Who refused to take Medicare or Medicaid. Speaks pretty loudly about his position on the subject.

Most physicians and congressman make enough money to opt out of medicare.

No, he refused to take Medicare/Medicaid from patients.

That is not uncommon among private practice physicians.

[Tossica]

I see.

[Martrae]

Underdog Paul Inspires Political Passion
Aug 31, 4:11 AM (ET)
By GRANT SLATER

NEW YORK (AP) - Passengers on a plane leaving New York could see three words in 4-foot block letters painted on an East Village rooftop terrace as they ascended: GOOGLE RON PAUL. The entreaty to search the Internet for news of the Republican congressman from rural Texas is one of the more visible signs of enthusiasm from a do-it-yourself base of Web fans. Their support doesn't show up in public opinion polls, but it's unmatched among presidential candidates in its passion.

On their own, the fans have developed a Ron Paul Revolution logo, marketing the idea through YouTube. Message boards and Web sites debate his virtues.

The Web fans for Paul's anti-establishment campaign run away with online polls and blanket Web sites with caps-locked, exclamation-point endorsements of the contrarian Republican, even though he measures no more than 2 percent in most national opinion polls.

The supporters have an entrepreneurial drive and get their political news from Internet sources outside the mainstream media, especially blogs and news aggregators that rely on popular vote to determine news value.

That same spirit inspires them to canvass parade routes in 100-degree heat, argue campaign strategy in two-hour meetings or paint the roof of a Manhattan apartment building.

"To get your arms around everything and understand what is going on is really impossible to do," Paul spokesman Jesse Benton said of supporters roaming the Web.

Paul's message is gospel among his base, which Benton described as mostly old-school conservatives.

Supporters can recite his talking points at length.

"They forge their own intellectual world to find the obscure, unusual sources of information that lead them to obscure, unusual candidates like Ron Paul," said Brian Doherty, a columnist for the libertarian magazine Reason.

Avery Knapp is typical of the Paul Web supporter. A 28-year-old radiology resident, Knapp describes himself as a lifelong conservative who voted for President Bush in 2000 before growing disillusioned with the Iraq war and federal spending.

Bush "did nothing but increase the size of government. The Republican Party needs to move back to its core principles," Knapp said. Many Paul supporters share Knapp's disdain for what he called a "neo-conservative clique" and hope Paul can spark a Goldwater-style insurgency.

At 46, Kevin Leslie has never bothered with politics. After watching an interview with Paul during his 1988 campaign as candidate for the Libertarian Party, Leslie told himself, "If this guy ever runs for president again, I'll back him."

Paul did, and Leslie was good to his word, starting a prominent Paul blog in February and traveling to the recent straw poll in Ames, Iowa.

Paul has attracted a contingent of previously apolitical and even left-leaning Americans like Leslie who support his call to pull all troops out of Iraq immediately and who like his reputation for opposing any legislation not linked to principles already expressed in the Constitution.

"I've already been surprised by how much traction his campaign has gotten," Doherty said. "He's a clever politician because these netroots types can call him a 'true conservative,' a 'constitutionalist' or whatever they call themselves, and he's sensitive to that."

Whatever their political background, the supporters all consider themselves part of a spray-paint and duct-tape "Ron Paul Revolution." Four banners with that unofficial logo hang from the fire escapes of the Manhattan building.

"They couldn't reel us in if they wanted to. Most everything has become an unofficial-official part of the campaign," said Dave Gallagher, whose cadre of Paul supporters came up with the Ron Paul Revolution logo.

Gallagher claims to have started the first group for Paul supporters on Meetup.com, a Web site geared toward the kind of networking that helped presidential candidate Howard Dean's supporters organize in 2004.

In the six months since, more than 30,000 people have joined Meetup groups in more than 700 places across the country. Paul's Meetup presence surpassed Dean's in just two months, said Andres Glusman, vice president of Meetup.com.

"Because people have the power to self-organize here, it's obvious that he's hitting a chord that is resonating with people in a way the media is not acknowledging," Glusman said.

This weekend, Paul will be the major Republican candidate to attend a Texas GOP straw poll in Fort Worth. Straw polls typically are won by the candidate who does the best job turning out dedicated supporters. All the top tier candidates in the race - and a few lower-rung candidates as well - are bypassing the event.

When Paul supporters get together, they often find themselves thrown into the intricacies of running an insurgent campaign, attorney Steven Heath said after a Meetup session in Dallas.

"These guys in Meetup, hardly any of them have any political experience," Heath said. "These people are newbies. They're about to get plugged in, and they'll be plugged in with Paul's ideas."





Yes, it's bump...get over it.