Bush vetoes bill on children's health care

[Tikker]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071003/pl_ ... jga2ME1vAI


despite the fact polls showed 7/10 americans supported the bill, and it had bipartisan support

[Trielelvan]

[Martrae]

7/10 Americans want everything handed to them on a silver platter.

Of course it had bi-partisan support. You think anyone wanted the other party to go home and cry about how the other guy doesn't 'care for the children'?

[Arlos]

There's enough votes to override the veto in the senate, and even such long-time ultra-staunch right-wingers as Orrin Hatch voted for it. There's not quite enough votes in the house yet, but I suspect some serious arm-twisting to occur, and it might well get done. Seriously though, how galling is it to finally have BOTH sides work together on something, create a real bipartisan bill, and he vetoes it.

-Arlos

[Tikker]

if bushie says it's right, that's good enough for me

[Martrae]

if bushie says it's right, that's good enough for me

Uh...ok

Seriously, there's not a single person in Congress or the White House that cares for more than their own power. If you can't see that reality, then you're blind.

[Harrison]

Isn't he fucking Canadian anyways?

[Tikker]

if bushie says it's right, that's good enough for me

Uh...ok

Seriously, there's not a single person in Congress or the White House that cares for more than their own power. If you can't see that reality, then you're blind.

so, what does that have to do with actually providing the public with what it wants?

[Trielelvan]

if bushie says it's right, that's good enough for me

She's not agreeing with the veto captain canuck =P
She's saying it's not surprising.

[Martrae]

It's a power thing. Bush gets to say he's worried about how to pay for it (since he's obviously a wonderfully fiscal president) and Congress gets to say they're only 'looking out for the children' (like they really care). What they both want is to score points off each other in the papers and sway voters.

[Arlos]

I am not QUITE as cynical as martrae. I think there are some people, especially I would guess in the House, who are there because they view it as a public service, not because they're out for a power grab. I'm sure they're few and far between, but I am certain they're out there.

-Arlos

[Evermore]

It's a power thing. Bush gets to say he's worried about how to pay for it (since he's obviously a wonderfully fiscal president) and Congress gets to say they're only 'looking out for the children' (like they really care). What they both want is to score points off each other in the papers and sway voters.

all that asshole bush is worried about is funding his bullshit war.

[Lyion]

Propaganda brought to you by the CBC, most likely, or any news outlet that the sheep without the common sense to look at things objectively will just swallow.

Let's ignore facts. It's not like any of the leftwing whackjobs here care for them, anyways or the real reason the BILL <it includes more than just S-CHP> will get vetoed and will not pass through veto proof via congress.

Heck, let's pass a bill to pay for everything for everyone. Who cares about Taxes, it's all for the GOOD OF ALL!

Fuck this noise, and fuck the tax and spenders. Tax, tax, tax, spend, spend, spend.

[Zanchief]

Are you having a bad day?

[Tikker]

if you actually believed in any of the shit you just posted lyion you'd be all for cutting back spending on stuff you can't afford

like you're incredibly large and expensive armed forces that spend all their time trying to impose the american will on unwilling countries

[Evermore]

Propaganda brought to you by the CBC, most likely, or any news outlet that the sheep without the common sense to look at things objectively will just swallow.

Let's ignore facts. It's not like any of the leftwing whackjobs here care for them, anyways or the real reason the BILL <it includes more than just S-CHP> will get vetoed and will not pass through veto proof via congress.

Heck, let's pass a bill to pay for everything for everyone. Who cares about Taxes, it's all for the GOOD OF ALL!

Fuck this noise, and fuck the tax and spenders. Tax, tax, tax, spend, spend, spend.

Don't you ever get tired of trying to defend his idiocy? It seems everyone but you sees it. Including members of his own party.

Here is the AP report. I guess they are sheep also


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21111931/


funny how he only wants a 5 bil increase yet is going to ask for another 160 bill for the war.

[Arlos]

Actually, the bill contains the means to pay for it. It ups the federal tax on cigarettes by 61 cents a pack.

Oh the horrors of charging smokers to allow lower income families to pay for health care for their children! How awful that families might actually be able to take their kids to a doctor when something happens!

I've mentioned my damaged knee a few times here. You know one reason it's so bad? When it happened, my parents weren't in jobs that gave health insurance, but they made just too much to qualify for Medicare, etc. So, they couldn't afford to pay for health insurance or real care for my knee, and as such, I was only able to have a bare minimum of treatment on it. I SHOULD have had surgery immediately. If that had happened, I might have gotten back to near full functionality. Instead what I got was a cheap-ass immobilizing brace, and a knee that now for life has me in severe chronic pain, and it is useless for most all athletic pursuits.

So, having been one of the people this bill would've helped if it had existed at the time, I want to give a hearty FUCK YOU to anyone callous enough to be willing to subject hundreds of thousands or millions of kids to potentially life-effecting illnesses and injuries in order to ensure the continued volume of sales of cigarettes.

-Arlos

[Martrae]

Arlos, that's a cop-out. If you needed surgery it should have been done and paid for in installments. As long as you pay a minimal amount each month you are fine.

[Lyion]

Thats a red herring. Taxing in the name of righteousness is not a pulpit for success, but that's neither here nor there. That's more of a socialist vs free market argument, but again that's different from this particular bill which is at it's core a starting point for Hillarycare.

This is a government run health care mandate. This program was originally setup to include poor children and has been offered to be funded for that at 5 billion. The DNC in a purely political motivation have changed this to include ALL children. This means the people with private health care will be moved out of that and on to this socially run federal health care system. Sorry, that's bullshit, as is the 35 billion meant to pay it. The polls likewise are not being fairly represented, but heck, that's par for the course.

In addition, this bloated and nasty beast which will certainly run well over 35 billion over the next 5 years will then be even more expensive and less sustainable when it runs out and needs to be renewed.

S-CHIP is more of the burdensome entitlement system that has caused us such massive debt and crushing taxes. The comical 'for the children' mantra is nice and will be used politically for the sheep who could care less about the facts, but heck, they never have mattered anyways.

[Arlos]

Do you have any idea how much extensive reconstructive surgery would cost without insurance? Yes, lets let all low income parents who's kids have a soccer injury take on 30-40 thousand dollars extra in debt when they're barely making ends meet as it is! That's a WONDERFUL plan! I love it! Oh yes, parents in lower income brackets can CERTAINLY absorb such debt levels, even if the hospitals would do the surgery with such problematic promise to pay! Sure they would! (Mind you, these're the same hospitals which have been known to dump people out on the street still in hospital gowns when their money ran out, etc.)

So, fuck you for claiming it is a cop-out. It was a real situation, it was a real injury, and no matter how much my parents might wanted to have taken on that level of financial burden so that I could have had proper care for the knee, they simply couldn't do it. The brace was sufficient to allow me to at least limp around once I was off crutches, pain was just something I had to deal with. I don't blame my parents at all for how things worked out, I blame the system. If we'd lived in a country with a real health care system like Canada, or anywhere in western Europe, my parents' income level would've been irrelevant, I could've had proper care and surgery. Only in America...

Furthermore, this bill does *NOT* cover "ALL" children. Look at it again. It still is aimed at low income families, it just covers more families somewhat higher up the income scale, but still not ones who already have insurance from work or come from well-off families that can and do easily afford it. Also, it hardly is some perverse DNC creation when it has such broad bipartisan support. You know how rare it is for ANYTHING to get 2/3 majority in the senate these days? This bill does. Lastly, how the fuck is this a government run health system? ALL this bill does is provide money for people to pay PRIVATE HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS. There's no government health care here, the money goes to PRIVATE insurance carriers, the same one anyone else uses.

-Arlos

[Tikker]

i love how anything remotely social triggers this insane anti-communism style fear in certain right wingers

[Lyion]

Nice response, Harris... er, Tikker.

[Harrison]

Hey, that was uncalled for...and it confuses me...

[Tikker]

Hey, that was uncalled for...and it confuses me...

he was probably wiping all the spittle off his screen when he started typing

[Evermore]

Thats a red herring. Taxing in the name of righteousness is not a pulpit for success, but that's neither here nor there. That's more of a socialist vs free market argument, but again that's different from this particular bill which is at it's core a starting point for Hillarycare.

This is a government run health care mandate. This program was originally setup to include poor children and has been offered to be funded for that at 5 billion. The DNC in a purely political motivation have changed this to include ALL children. This means the people with private health care will be moved out of that and on to this socially run federal health care system. Sorry, that's bullshit, as is the 35 billion meant to pay it. The polls likewise are not being fairly represented, but heck, that's par for the course.

In addition, this bloated and nasty beast which will certainly run well over 35 billion over the next 5 years will then be even more expensive and less sustainable when it runs out and needs to be renewed.

S-CHIP is more of the burdensome entitlement system that has caused us such massive debt and crushing taxes. The comical 'for the children' mantra is nice and will be used politically for the sheep who could care less about the facts, but heck, they never have mattered anyways.

and this useless and unsustainable war is better to spend money on? You are blowing smoke out of your ass. this hasnt cost the american public 1/4 of what this fucking war is costing. not even close. whats causing the debt is Bush's PISS POOR fiscal polices. Political or not, god fucking forbid we spend some money and help out a poor kid. Btw the kids this will effect have no idea and have no clue about any of this. They just know they are sick.