Finally, the media gets fed up

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Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby Arlos » Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:53 pm

The anger over the McCain campaign outright lying over and over again has been getting more and more attention from a variety of places that I've seen. A lot of them are just stupid lies too, as they're ridiculously easy to check on. For example, Palin claimed that the teleprompter stopped working during the RNC, and she was just winging her speech. Yet people AT the convention in the front could SEE the teleprompter and that it was working fine. Likewise, the claim of saying no to the Bridge to Nowhere is BS, they accepted the money, just didn't build the bridge with it, as is easy to look up. Probably the most egregious was the claim Obama wanted full sex ed taught to kindergartners, when what he really had advocated is a program to help protect them against sexual molestation.

Anyway, it seems like the media has just gotten fed up as well. This is straight from Time Magazine:

Politics has always been lousy with blather and chicanery. But there are rules and traditions too. In the early weeks of the general-election campaign, a consensus has grown in the political community — a consensus that ranges from practitioners like Karl Rove to commentators like, well, me — that John McCain has allowed his campaign to slip the normal bounds of political propriety. The situation has gotten so intense that we in the media have slipped our normal rules as well. Usually when a candidate tells something less than the truth, we mince words. We use euphemisms like mendacity and inaccuracy ... or, as the Associated Press put it, "McCain's claims skirt facts." But increasing numbers of otherwise sober observers, even such august institutions as the New York Times editorial board, are calling John McCain a liar. You might well ask, What has McCain done to deserve this? What unwritten rules did he break? Are his transgressions of degree or of kind?

Almost every politician stretches the truth. We journalists try to point out the exaggerations and criticize them, then let the voters decide. When McCain says, for example, that Barack Obama favors a government-run health-care system, he's not telling the truth — Obama wants a market-based system subsidized by the government — but McCain's untruth illuminates a general policy direction, which is sketchy but sort of within the bounds. (Obama's plan would increase government regulation of the drug and insurance industries.) Obama has done this sort of thing too. In July, he accused McCain of supporting the foreign buyout of an American company that could lead to the loss of about 8,000 jobs in Wilmington, Ohio. McCain did support the deal, but the job loss comes many years later and was not anticipated at the time. That, however, is where the moral equivalency between these two campaigns ends.

McCain's lies have ranged from the annoying to the sleazy, and the problem is in both degree and kind. His campaign has been a ceaseless assault on his opponent's character and policies, featuring a consistent—and witting—disdain for the truth. Even after 38 million Americans heard Obama say in his speech at the Democratic National Convention that he was open to offshore oil-drilling and building new nuclear-power plants, McCain flatly said in his acceptance speech that Obama opposed both. Normal political practice would be for McCain to say, "Obama says he's 'open to' offshore drilling, but he's always opposed it. How can we believe him?" This persistence in repeating demonstrably false charges is something new in presidential politics.

Worse than the lies have been the smears. McCain ran a television ad claiming that Obama favored "comprehensive" sex education for kindergartners. (Obama favored a bill that would have warned kindergartners about sexual predators and improper touching.) The accusation that Obama was referring to Sarah Palin when he said McCain's effort to remarket his economic policies was putting "lipstick on a pig" was another clearly misleading attack — an obnoxious attempt to divert attention from Palin's lack of fitness for the job and the recklessness with which McCain chose her. McCain's assault on the "élite media" for spreading rumors about Palin's personal life — actually, the culprits were a few bloggers and the tabloid press — was more of the same. And that gets us close to the real problem here. The McCain camp has decided that its candidate can't win honorably, on the issues, so it has resorted to transparent and phony diversions.

This new strategy emerged during the first week of Obama's overseas trip in late July. McCain had been intending to contrast his alleged foreign policy expertise and toughness with Obama's inexperience and alleged weakness. McCain wanted to "win" the Iraq war and face down the Iranians. But those issues became moot when the Iraqis said they favored Obama's withdrawal plan and the Bush Administration started talking to the Iranians. At that point, McCain committed his original sin — out of pique, I believe — questioning Obama's patriotism, saying the Democrat would rather lose a war than lose an election. Ever since, McCain's campaign has been a series of snide and demeaning ads accompanied by the daily gush of untruths that have now been widely documented and exposed. The strategy is an obvious attempt to camouflage the current unpopularity of his Republican brand, the insubstantiality of his vice-presidential choice, and his agreement on most issues — especially economic matters — with an exceedingly unpopular President.

The good news is that the vile times may be ending. The coming debates will decide this race, and it isn't easy to tell lies when your opponent is standing right next to you. The Wall Street collapse demands a more sober campaign as well. But these dreadful weeks should not be forgotten. John McCain has raised serious questions about whether he has the character to lead the nation. He has defaced his beloved military code of honor. He has run a dirty campaign.


Ouch.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/artic ... 30,00.html for those who want to read it on the site for some reason.

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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby brinstar » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:05 pm

problem is, most people don't see columns like that in their yahoo inboxes

they only see the trumped-up bullshit about how obama... [insert mindia's posts here]
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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby araby » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:07 am

or the omg look at what just happened in entertainment news!!1!
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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby Trielelvan » Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:40 am

I'm calling it now: this is a pity campaign for McCain.
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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby Tuggan » Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:07 am

the dumb bastard never should have took a cheap shot at the media for daring to question palin, espcially with the free pass he has had over the last 15 years.
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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby Lueyen » Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:25 am

Worse than the lies have been the smears. McCain ran a television ad claiming that Obama favored "comprehensive" sex education for kindergartners. (Obama favored a bill that would have warned kindergartners about sexual predators and improper touching.)


http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=3&GA=93&DocTypeId=SB&DocNum=0099&GAID=3&LegID=734&

Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV AIDS.


First I wonder if the author ever actually read the bill as there is no mention that the bill also included the above. That being said anyone want to explain to me how you would teach a Kindergartner about STD's, and STD prevention without going beyond what most people would consider age appropriate?
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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby Trielelvan » Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:38 am

Pretty simple IMO actually.
If they are to be taught about improper touch and what sexual predators can do, it will probably be an anatomically correct rag doll that they will use to demonstrate exactly where you are not allowed to be touched, what those predators might try to touch you with and how, and what can happen as a result (like icky diseases that make you really sick).
I'm quite positive if anyone were to actually create a "comprehensive" sex-ed for Kindergartners, it would not be what the slander is trying to imply it would be, and something more along those lines.
I don't know a single teacher that would stand for it otherwise.

Granted, the language in the bill is very *facepalm* but it looks to me like the "K" was added in there just to ensure that all grades were covered.

I will say though, further down, there is a section regarding alcohol and drugs being taught about as well that is only mandated instruction for grades 5-12, and I am more concerned that this was not included for grades K-4.
My first classroom sex-ed was 4th grade, but drug/alcohol info was given out and taught in both 2nd and 3rd.
Sex-ed was optional and had to have a parental signature.
The drug stuff was not.
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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby Harrison » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:04 am

Why are schools doing what parents should be doing anyways? That's fucking stupid.
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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby Arlos » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:13 am

Did YOU read it? It stressed in more than one location that any and all education was to be age and development appropriate. It even had it as the FIRST clause in those sections, so that condition overrides all the other ones after it. So, yeah, age appropriate for a kindergartner WOULD be "tell a teacher if someone touched you where they shouldn't." or suchlike.

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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby Lueyen » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:40 am

Arlos I think you'd have to admit that part of the problem with this law as it is written, is without clarification "appropriate" is very subjective.

Does anyone think it would be inappropriate to discuss methods of contraception with kindergartners? I am at a loss on how one would approach the issue without either migrating too or starting with the average birds and bees talk(if there is such a thing). I see no problem with the concept of teaching young children about inappropriate touching... but when it comes to STD education I don't see how you can separate that from a context of sexual intercourse.
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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby Arlos » Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:01 pm

I think you would have a hard time finding ANYONE who would think that teaching kindergartners about STDs and contraception would be in any way "age appropriate". Since the age and development appropriateness is the primary condition in that law, I find it hard to imagine any unbiased person that would in any way think the law would want to cover high-school level sex-ed issues with kindergartners.

What those latter clauses are for are to short-circuit any effort to NOT teach such things to high schoolers, where it IS appropriate. As was noted in an earlier thread, in a lot of places around the country, they do NOT teach such things, due to complaints from the far right wing. So, all those clauses were for is to make sure that does not occur in any of the Illinois school districts.

Could it be clearer? Possibly, but again, I find it very hard to believe that any unbiased person, when they read that the primary tenet in this is "age and development appropriateness", would in any way conclude that it somehow meant that they would be trying to teach 5 year olds about condom use.

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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby Trielelvan » Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:18 pm

Harrison wrote:Why are schools doing what parents should be doing anyways? That's fucking stupid.

You already know the reasons lol

1) most parents are worthless
2) good kids of worthless parents need to learn the right stuff from somewhere

It still amazes me how many girls I've talked to over the years over age 20 that still think using a douche or having sex while on your period can keep you from getting pregnant.
I even had a friend in highschool who's mom, who was a fucking nursing assistant of all things, tell me to my face that as long as the hymen had not been broken, a girl can not get pregnant. When I insisted that, except in rare cases, a virgin can still get pregnant from being splashed, she told me I was lying, wrong, and needed to seek God... :eyecrazy:
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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby Martrae » Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:14 pm

Arlos wrote:I think you would have a hard time finding ANYONE who would think that teaching kindergartners about STDs and contraception would be in any way "age appropriate". Since the age and development appropriateness is the primary condition in that law, I find it hard to imagine any unbiased person that would in any way think the law would want to cover high-school level sex-ed issues with kindergartners.



Considering they just had a thing in the news about a teacher bringing a bag of shit to a classroom and showing it to the kids because someone wasn't flushing....I'd say you really need to be specific since some teachers really haven't the first clue about what's appropriate.
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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby Arlos » Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:22 pm

OK, let me amend that then to "Any reasonable person". I am sure you could find some crazies out there who think otherwise, maybe if you polled NAMBLA members or something.

Considering, though, that curricula are set up at the district level, you'd have to have a large committee of such raving morons, and I find that to be statistically an incredibly highly unlikely event.

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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby Eziekial » Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:44 am

[quote="Arlos"]OK, let me amend that then to "Any reasonable person". I am sure you could find some crazies out there who think otherwise, maybe if you polled NAMBLA members or something.

Considering, though, that curricula are set up at the district level, you'd have to have a large committee of such raving morons, and I find that to be statistically an incredibly highly unlikely event.

-Arlos[/quote]

Is fucking one of your students written in the large committee, district level written curricula? LOL.
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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby Martrae » Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:24 am

Arlos wrote:OK, let me amend that then to "Any reasonable person". I am sure you could find some crazies out there who think otherwise, maybe if you polled NAMBLA members or something.

Considering, though, that curricula are set up at the district level, you'd have to have a large committee of such raving morons, and I find that to be statistically an incredibly highly unlikely event.

-Arlos


a) You cannot predict what questions the kids will ask or what answers the teachers will give.

b) Curricula is not a lesson plan. Every teacher I have ever known has had to come up with their own plan for what they planned to cover for the year and submit it for approval. All the district does it tell the schools what books to use and what general topics they want covered in each subject for the year. The minutiae is not something they deal with.

c) Lessons are not scripted, regimented or exactly the same from classroom to classroom. Even if the exact same material is presented.
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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby ClakarEQ » Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:08 am

ok, so those that are not on board with the Obama plan, lets devil advocate your lack of ideas, shoot holes in obama's, sure, but come up with a solution.

As often as a teacher fucks their student is less than a parent molesting their child - what is your plan for that?

Mart:
A) you don't have to predict what the questions are: Teach: Well you should talk to your parents about that, your question is outside my ability to respond.
B) The curricula could require, no open ended questions. All questions within the context of the curricula must be yes/no. Example, Teach: "Is everyone clear that no-one should touch your butthole", only response is yes or no.
C) if you don't want your kid in there, then don't let them be, I still feel it is the parents right to deny or allow this form of education.

Look at it this way, what else do you want? Understand this isn't about "YOU", this isn't about the minority (the low fucking minority) of parents that actually teach the fucking kids this stuff, what about the rest of them? Just fuck them I guess aye?

The parents won't or arn't doing it, they can often be the one commiting the crime.
Who else should educate them?
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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby Martrae » Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:04 pm

I just don't think very highly of most public school kindergarten teacher's ability to deal with this, I guess. It falls more under the purview of a school nurse, anyway.

Also, schools need LESS government interference, not more. No Child Left Behind sounded great on paper, too, but in practice it's a HORRIBLE idea.
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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby ClakarEQ » Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:32 pm

I realize there is no perfect solution and maybe not even a good one, but I find it troubling when at least someone wants to try something and all he gets is that his ideas are stupid or pointless or bad, when the folks saying that of his ideas offer nothing to combat the problem.

I don't disagree with you though Mart, I don't have much faith in our teachers and not just Kindergarten. However I have less faith in most parents (a bit of exaggeration but not much).

Perhaps in this case, nothing is better than something but that is a gamble and the money on the table is tomorrows future.
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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby Arlos » Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:56 pm

So have the school nurse come into class and teach it then?

While I don't agree with you Mart in there being any REAL likelihood of some hypothetical teacher conducting sex ed in kindergarten by showing Backdoor Sluts 23 or something, I actually think that is an entirely separate argument and not connected with the original discussion.

Irrespective of whether or not you think it's possible the policy might be interpreted bizarrely by your hypothetical out-there kindergarten teacher, you must admit that it is CLEARLY not the INTENT of the law that any such thing would occur, correct?

Well, what the McCain campaign was arguing is that it was Obama's INTENT to have condom education in kindergarten or suchlike. I personally don't see how any rational individual could read ANY such intent into that law, given the emphasis on age-appropriateness, etc.

Therefore, since the claim is clearly false, the McCain campaign is engaged in outright lying when they claim that about Obama. And maybe it's just me, but lying like that, in what amounted to something akin of intimations of pedophilia, well, that's not only particularly low, it's disgusting.

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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby Evermore » Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:16 pm

Arlos Can you show me backdoor sluts 23? I thought it stopped at 22?
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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby Eziekial » Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:52 pm

23 is the bomb. Palin's in it and she's a freak! :boots:
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Re: Finally, the media gets fed up

Postby brinstar » Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:15 pm

Harrison wrote:Why are schools doing what parents should be doing anyways? That's fucking stupid.


key word here is "should"

no one would argue that parents SHOULD be doing this, but given the fact that they're NOT, it becomes a matter of choice between teaching them in school or not teaching them at all. then it becomes a no-brainer.
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