Welcome to the United States of Karl Marx

[Narrock]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43972446/ns/health-health_care/ So where the fuck are you liberals now? You're usually belly-aching and foaming at the mouth for your rights and civil liberties, etc. I'm pretty disgusted with the greed and corruption of big business, especially insurance companies, but to FORCE them to provide FREE medicine without a copay is so un-American it's not even funny. What another clear example that failprez barry is the absolute worst president in U.S. history, and Eric Holder is the worst attorney general in U.S. history. What another sad, sad day for America... All the insurance companies are going to do is raise prices to make up for this debacle anyway. The short-sightedness and downright stupidity of these leftists is absolutely mind-boggling.

[Narrock]

I'm going to dumb this down for the likes of Tossica, our NT resident of anti-establishment, anti-government, anti-capitalist, etc. See the thread entitled "Tossica's butt-plug factory" in the "Everything Else" forum, since he publicly admitted to being a frequent willing recipient of anal fisting anyway.

[Gypsiyee]

so you think abortion should be outlawed, rally against entitlement programs including food stamps and welfare, and now you're also against a preventative measure that makes the first two occurrences less common?

so what exactly are you for? a law prohibiting low income people from having sex ever? or is your solution to make adoption the only option, which means you're neglecting the reality that from conception to birth hospital bills still exist and are rather high?

[Narrock]

so you think abortion should be outlawed, rally against entitlement programs including food stamps and welfare, and now you're also against a preventative measure that makes the first two occurrences less common?

so what exactly are you for? a law prohibiting low income people from having sex ever? or is your solution to make adoption the only option, which means you're neglecting the reality that from conception to birth hospital bills still exist and are rather high?

If you are in support of the government forcing a business to give away free products and/or services, then you are an America hater, and/or someone who doesn't understand that we are a free market capitalistic society and that the government has no right intervening that way. And for the record, I am in support of quite a few social/welfare programs, including aid for abused women, aid for persons with disabilities, feeding the hungry, and a few more... People who truly need and deserve assistance. However, I will never be in support of government forcing businesses to give away free products and/or services. That's just so wrong in every conceivable way.

[Gypsiyee]

..but you're okay with government forcing women to carry unwanted/financially prohibitive/rape/incest pregnancies to full term.

[Narrock]

..but you're okay with government forcing women to carry unwanted/financially prohibitive/rape/incest pregnancies to full term.

The child is is completely innocent and doesn't know how he/she was conceived.

[Tossica]

..but you're okay with government forcing women to carry unwanted/financially prohibitive/rape/incest pregnancies to full term.

The child is icompletely nnocent and doesn't know he/she was conceived.

Quick, kill it before it becomes a Republican.

[Narrock]

..but you're okay with government forcing women to carry unwanted/financially prohibitive/rape/incest pregnancies to full term.

The child is icompletely nnocent and doesn't know he/she was conceived.

Quick, kill it before it becomes a Republican.

And that's not a hateful comment?

[Gypsiyee]

..but you're okay with government forcing women to carry unwanted/financially prohibitive/rape/incest pregnancies to full term.

The child is is completely innocent and doesn't know how he/she was conceived.

that's got nothing to do with my point. babies grow into adults who eventually do inquire about where they came from, but that's neither here nor there.

measures enforcing birth control and making it more widely available prevent the necessity for the abortion argument because with birth control widely available to even those who couldn't otherwise afford it, the number of unwanted pregnancies--and subsequently abortions--goes down.

You're saying poor pitiful multi-billion dollar corporation, and I'm saying thank goodness for something that will help slow the growth of an already outrageous population of unwanted and uncared for children.

but no, your way is better. let's keep birth control cost prohibitive and have lots of unwanted pregnancies that turn into unwanted kids and unwanted unskilled adults that know nothing but poverty until the day they die. that's an awesome idea.

[Arlos]

Uh, Mindia, you do know that birth control is far from the only medical service on the list of services/products that insurance companies are required to supply without charge/copay? There was NO such complaint or ranting and raving about the other services either. For your edification, that list includes:

* Blood pressure, diabetes, and cholesterol tests
* Many cancer screenings, including mammograms and colonoscopies
* Counseling on such topics as quitting smoking, losing weight, eating healthfully, treating depression and reducing alcohol use
* Routine vaccinations against diseases such as measles, polio or meningitis
* Flu and pneumonia shots
* Counseling, screening, and vaccines to ensure healthy pregnancies
* Regular well-baby and well-child visits, from birth to age 21

Notice that these are all preventive care items, where by performing them, the companies SAVE money in the long run, often significant money. What that recent decision did is add birth control to that list of preventive care items. (given that keeping someone from having a baby saves TONS of money in pregnancy costs, etc.) So honestly, I don't believe for 1 minute that the people protesting this decision are doing so because of some sense of "Must save capitalism!" or other such silliness. They're bitching because it's birth control. Period.

-Arlos

[leah]

hehe "...it's birth control. period."

my brain went to the menstrual joke place. :P




ANYWAY. as someone whose company refuses to pay for any sort of well-woman preventive care or cover any contraceptive costs, i think this is tremendous. the cost of some types of birth control is outrageous--i was paying something like $70 a month. that's crazy. granted i was on yaz (to help with PMDD symptoms... which i'm nervous about coming back now that i won't have those extra hormones), which is a pretty expensive form of BC, but still, it's all fairly costly when you add it up.

i just find the outrage perplexing, mostly because of all of the solid arguments about how much money BC saves in the long run by not having to finance pregnancy and baby care, but also because the people who oppose this measure are also the people who want to shut down planned parenthood, which is currently one of the only places women can get affordable birth control without insurance. i truly, sincerely do not understand what is so wrong about wanting to prevent unplanned pregnancy or why conservatives try so desperately to make it hard to do.

[Narrock]

Uh, Mindia, you do know that birth control is far from the only medical service on the list of services/products that insurance companies are required to supply without charge/copay? There was NO such complaint or ranting and raving about the other services either. For your edification, that list includes:

* Blood pressure, diabetes, and cholesterol tests
* Many cancer screenings, including mammograms and colonoscopies
* Counseling on such topics as quitting smoking, losing weight, eating healthfully, treating depression and reducing alcohol use
* Routine vaccinations against diseases such as measles, polio or meningitis
* Flu and pneumonia shots
* Counseling, screening, and vaccines to ensure healthy pregnancies
* Regular well-baby and well-child visits, from birth to age 21

Notice that these are all preventive care items, where by performing them, the companies SAVE money in the long run, often significant money. What that recent decision did is add birth control to that list of preventive care items. (given that keeping someone from having a baby saves TONS of money in pregnancy costs, etc.) So honestly, I don't believe for 1 minute that the people protesting this decision are doing so because of some sense of "Must save capitalism!" or other such silliness. They're bitching because it's birth control. Period.

-Arlos

Tbqh, no I didn't know that, and I appreciate the info. I'm still against the premise of government forcing any company, corporation, or business to give away products or services for free. It's really stupid anyway if you think about it. Those companies are going to build that financial loss into other areas of their business and we're going to pay for it one way or the other. Companies aren't stupid lol. So essentially, the end result is a mere perceived freebie. Why doesn't government just pay for it out of the general fund? Oh wait, they already spent all of it.

[brinstar]

So where the fuck are you liberals now? You're usually belly-aching and foaming at the mouth for your rights and civil liberties, etc. I'm pretty disgusted with the greed and corruption of big business, especially insurance companies, but to FORCE them to provide FREE medicine without a copay is so un-American it's not even funny. What another clear example that failprez barry is the absolute worst president in U.S. history, and Eric Holder is the worst attorney general in U.S. history. What another sad, sad day for America... All the insurance companies are going to do is raise prices to make up for this debacle anyway. The short-sightedness and downright stupidity of these leftists is absolutely mind-boggling.

i think you may be confused. why exactly do you think liberals should be outraged to hear the federal government has dictated that Big Med may not charge a copay for birth control? let's see...

women's equality acknowledged... check
low-income couples given more options to help reduce or avoid unwanted pregnancies... check
government reining in corporations' ability to drive up their own profits... check
rights and civil liberties of american people left unharmed... check

only thing i can think of that i could get upset about is that my own personal health insurance costs might go up a few pennies...? actually, nope! i'm in favor of raising taxes to fund increased preventative health care for every single human. plus, now that i think of it, i bet the money saved by lowering the rate of accidental/unwanted conception will more than balance things out!

so would you care to explain exactly how this will infringe upon the rights and civil liberties of americans? or are you shilling for corporations again?

[leah]

ha, there's a headline on the front page of fark today that says "We'd have 50% fewer abortions if only the same nuts that are against abortion weren't also against contraceptives." that's what i'm saying!

(here's the link it went to, if anyone cares... http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... story.html)