EQ2 NDA Lifted

[Lyion]

Nov 15 looking on target....

http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news ... ine&id=192

[KILL]

as of today, i would say EQ2 qualifies as broken.


hope its ready on time

[mofish]

I wouldnt use the word broken. There are no game breaking bugs really. There are bugs still, but nothing that makes me say 'this game is fucked.'

[Tacks]

OMG NDA is lifted a month before release, HOW GENEROUS of them.

[KILL]

When zones are unplayable at the population levels intended upon release, Id say that qualifies as broken. IE Commonlands, or Antonica.

Dont get me wrong, I like the game... when it works. I just think SoE is doing business as usual here and will probably release another unfinished product and piss off a lot of people who might otherwise like the game.

Aside from the existing problems, broken quests, etc.. the end game hasnt even been tested yet. Hell , there arent but .. what 3 or 4 players even past level 40? and a small handfull even past 30?


I just dont see how it will be ready for shelves by mid Nov.

[brinstar]

it'll be "ready" because they want to compete with WoW

i can't see how anyone would pick eq2 over wow

[Treehorn]

Copy & Paste from M-B of a Copy & Paste from someone's server board...

First, let me say that I've been awaiting EQ2 for a very long time. I've been drooling over screen shots, and loved the idea of playing EQ in the future with the turmoil of the absent Gods. I played on friends WoW account and only did so to bide my time until EQ2 came out, because I just /knew/ it was gonna blow everything else out of the water.

Boy, did I set myself up for a HUGE disappointment!

Before I go into the nitty gritty, let me say that EQ2 is by far the most beautiful game I've ever played. If you can play the game on higher settings, the graphics will leave you in awe. However, even with the best of machines, don't expect to play above 'Balanced' (middle grade graphics) or 'High Quality' (1 step above 'Balanced'). I used FRAPS as my FPS benchmarking tool, as this is what I use for EQ/WOW/Doom3/Etc. Until recently, if I wanted FPS to be above 20, I needed to play Balanced. Recently, SOE made some changes which allowed me to play High Quality. Currently, at HQ I can get mid 30 FPS with nothing but a few mobs and some back ground scenery. Add more then 2-3 Players or a group of mobs, and you drop to 22-23 FPS. Go where there are 15+ players on the screen or 2-3 groups of mobs and you drop to mid teens.

We're talking zones that have good performance, should you go to Qeynos, your FPS will drop to the single digits in some locations.

Now, what kind of PoS system am I running? I'm running a dual 3.06Ghz Xeon system with an x800. The only bottle-neck in my system is that I'm only running 1GB of RAM, though watching my task manager, I never seen more then 700ish used by EQ2 & my OS. Not the technical type? Put it to you this way, running EQ1 in 1600x1200 with every graphic on, in high quality mode, I get 40's & 50's FPS in a 50+ player raid. Another example, I get mid 20 FPS in the Bazaar, we're talking with all the traders loaded, and I don't get a single stutter running around looking for items.

The above, alot of people refer to as "lag", it's not lag, it's just choppy video problems. Let's talk about the real "lag" and how it applied to EQ2. Once most characters get to level 10 and above (many attempt this before 10), 90% of everyone will migrate to Antonica and/or Commonlands. This is where some of the best xp/loot is for these levels as well as a good majority of quests involve. When I started beta back in July, Antonica was awesome. However, after a few quick invites, by mid August the zone started getting (get ready for this unbelieably huge number) 70+ players, and the Lag Monster reared it's ugly head. Lag as in, you click your skill/spell and it would take 5 seconds before it started casting. You /OOC, it took 5 seconds before it popped on the screen. 5 seconds isn't that bad? Let's fast forward to late September where there is now 100+ players in these same zones. Did you need a bathroom break? Click one of your skills/spells, head to the bathroom, by the time you got back, you probably still had a good 30 seconds before the action took place. Am I exhageratting (sp)? It really depends on how long your bathroom breaks are, I've actually timed it before and I've seen it take longer then 2 minutes for one of my actions to complete after starting it. This wasn't only my problem, EVERYONE was sharing this issue. The EQ2 beta boards were spammed with "Fix the Lag in Antonica!!!" threads.

Now, if you don't have a job, you can probably enjoy the game with little FPS issues and little lag by keeping ahead of the curve, however, people will catch up to you and when they do, you are going to be as miserable as everyone else.... assuming 90% of the people don't cancel the game before their free month is up.

The 2 above items are definately game breaking items that need to be addressed ////before//// the game goes live, not after. When a $3,000 machine can't play a game enjoyably on anything more then 50% graphic options, there is an issue. When you have 15 groups in a zone the size of West Karana AND South Karana, and they can't fight since they can't peform actions and/or communicate, there is an issue.

Now, for my /personal/ opinions on game play.

A game called Ever'Quest', you expect alot of fun quests? Well, there certainlly is tons of quests in EQ2. However, once you get off the Isle of Refuge, you'll learn to call it EverFedEx. Because a good majority of the quests are:

******
"Hail very pale Erudite Merchant"

"Hail adventurer, do you see that merchant to my left? Yes, the one that is less then 10 feet away from me, could you please inform him that I am in need of some water, I will glady reward you."

"Hail person 10 feet away!"

"Hail adventurer, beautiful day in Qeynos is it not?"
At this point 3 bubbles will pop above this NPC's head with /your/ possible responses to his dialog:
Bubble 1: "The lazy b*tch 10 feet of way is in need of water"
Bubble 2: "Never mind, I am busy"
Bubble 3: "Report a bug with this conversation"

At this point, you figure it's best to click Bubble 1

"Haha, yes, she's been complaing about her thirst all day long. Here, please give her this goblet of water so that she may shut up"

"Hail lazy, ugly, pale Erudite Merchant"

"Welcome back my friend, have you fetched me any water?"
Bubble 1: "Yes here it is"
Bubble 2: "Never mind, I am busy"
Bubble 3: "Report a bug with this conversation"
*clicks bubble 1*

"Oh thank you my dear, please take this is a reward for saving my life!"
You receive 2 copper pieces.

*******

That is a good majority of the starting quests, granted, many of them make you visit different area's within Qeynos or Freeport, but it's all running back and forth. While you do have options in your responses, it's still very linear. Why click "Nevermind I am not interested" when you know clicking "Here you go" will get you that exciting reward of a few copper?

This is assuming the quest actually works. Granted a majority fo quests work, but many are still broken.

Granted, you will get a few "Go kill suchandsuch" quests, which sound exciting, until you actually engage in combat.

Combat is very similiar to combat in EQ1. Fighters (Warriors, Monks, Pal's/SK's, Etc tank), Scouts (Rangers, Rogues, Bard) take position behind the mob, Healers (Clerics, Shaman, Druids) duh - heal, Mages (Wizards, Necro's Chanters, Mages) nuke/send pets in/possibly mez 1 mob.

However, there is less strategy in EQ2. Basically, if you have an Enchanter and you get adds (and you almost always do since many mobs are chained together), they will mez 1 (maybe 2) mobs, other then that, the tank will AE taunt as everyone else assists to kill.

Also, when you engage in combat you (your group) and the aggro mobs become locked in battle. That means, no one can attack your mob and/or heal you. I absolutely hated this feature. Some people love it, but I hated it. It annoyed that the only way to get help, or help someone was for the encounter to be broken (you /yell for help). Breaking the encounter means you get no xp, no loot and no quest updates, should you needed them to progress. What makes matters worse (though I suspect this is a bug), many quest mobs /yell for help, which breaks the encounter. Know that chest piece that you've been working on for 3 days. You finally find the named mob uncamped, 5 hours later he spawns, your group engages, mob /yells for help, encounter breaks, someone dies while the rest of your group kills broken encounter. No xp, no loot, no quest update, the only thing you got was some lost xp (xp debt) because someone died during the fight. Group starts breaking up, you give up in frustration and try again tomorrow.

Sick of Antonica/Stormhold/Thundering Steepes? Let's go to some other zone (besides the equivelent on the Freeport side). Doh, you can't go anywhere else, you need to unlock zones through quests.

You spend a few days running around, finding various items, marking various thing, some times *gasp* killing something, and eventually you unlock a new zone. You're excited, you take a boat ride to the newly opened zone. You walk off the dock, you're dead. WTF?! Damn it! Since you can only play with half the clipping plane, you never saw that blood red mob run over to you, all you see is the Negative 1200 pop above your head when the mob appears in your face. Fun!

So you make it into your 20's and 30's. You now know where to go and where not to go. You start fighting mobs 5 levels higher then you. A piece of loot drops, very nice stats, but wait, no one can wear it... well, actually you and the other scout can wear it, but not for another 12 levels. That's ok, you only need 5 more levels to go to be able to wear those gloves you got as a reward for the quest you go 4 levels ago anyway.

Speaking of boat rides, anyone remember drowning in 99 when the boats used to sink and/or randomally dropped you off in the middle of OOT? That bug is back, well, these boats don't sink, but they do drop you into the water randomally. Unfortunately, unlike 99, you can't get back into the boat by swimming under it as it's moving. Oh, and be careful for the mobs that are 10 levels higher then you swimming around.

I could go on and on, but my fingers are getting sore, and I'm starting to get depressed. I really, truly was hoping for EQ2 to be the best thing since EQ1. However, if my choice was to pay and play EQ2 or listen to my wife about what she saw on Survivor/Big Brother/Newlyweds/Etc, I'll be purchasing a large supply of ear plugs and pretending to be interested in what Jessica said to Nick.

People are saying EQ2's release is going to be similiar to SW:G after it went live. I've never played SW:G so I can't comment on that, but I can state this. IMO Anarchy Online was a more finished product when it went live then what EQ2 currently is, and AO sucked so bad they couldn't buy their customers back. Rumor is EQ2 is planning a release in November, in an attempt to beat out WoW. This is a HUGE mistake. EQ2 is minimum of 6 months from being a finished product, and that's being generous.

I really feel bad for those working on EQ2 that wanted to make it a great game. The idiotic bean counters at SOE are soooo worried that WoW is going to take away their share of the market, they are going to shoot themselves in the foot. If I was Blizzard, I would postpone the delievery of my game until exactly 1 month after EQ2 goes live, because they will snag everyone that wasn't interested in WoW simply because of their total disgust with SoE.

In short, after waiting close to 2 years for EQ2, I will not be purchasing the game. I highly suggest anyone intered in buying, that they wait until a month after the game is released to hear the majority of everyone's opinions before making a decision. You can thank me later for saving you $50.

My apologies to my friends that work at SoE.

Sounds great.

Now where did that excellent review of Arlos' go... There's an edited version there as well, but I thought I read it here first.

[mofish]

FG quest being broken does suck. And cant get into CT either. So yeah those are 2 things that have to be ready for release. But FG quest used to work, so its not like it never has. Itll be ready to go for sure.

Also, Commonlands lag made a 10X improvement after last patch. Its perfectly playable now for me.

[Lyion]

They probably had their servers running in debug mode, with heavy logging.

We'll see when both games are released. WOW seems pretty polished, hopefully EQ2 will be also.

[Martrae]

The lag sounds like Horizons. Everyone said that was because of debugging too, but it was still there at release. Actually it's still there, out of curiousity I did a 7 day trial last week. Everything seems the same as it was at release.

[mofish]

I rarely have any perceptible lag, graphics or network. Runs well for me. Only in the Commonlands, and that is a fraction of what it was before last patch.

[Lyion]

I'll probably try WOW and EQ2 on release. I really wish they weren't released at the same time...

[KILL]

Well, anyone who says there isnt lag or quests arent broken in EQ2 is full of shit.



Quests are still broken. At least one of them is an important lower level zone access quest. I have found several other misc. broken quests.

Yes the lag problem has been better since the last patch. Its nice to play with 1-2 second server lag when you can compare it to the 30 - 60 second [no joke] lag from the week prior. However, 1-2 seconds fucking sucks when you compare it to what it should be. At least the problem has been in only 2 zones. Trouble is, they are 2 of the most important and used zones in the game. And this has nothing to do with graphic lag, a whole other issue.



I do like the game and i think a lot of other people will too, but dont expect a finished product if you buy it at release.

[mofish]

The only zone in the entire game I have any noticeable lag is commonlands, which has 100+ people in zone prime time. But I do agree, the 1/2-1 secong lag I get there hopefully will be better before release. The lag got 100X better last patch, Im confident it will be further optimized.

And I guess youre talking about Fallen Gate? The quest worked at one time, it will work again. There is no way the game is released with FG quest broken.

If these are the two biggest issues left, some lag in a heavily populated zone and a temporarily broken low level access quest, then Id say the game is coming along nicely and will be more than ready for release.

[Captain Insano]

Man i fucking hate quests.....

Why can't they make a mmorg called "Slaughterhouse" where you run around with knights and wizards and just pwn shit, and slay quest givers, then go back to the tavern and swill beer and slap around the wenches?!!!

Thats what mmorging should be all about.

[Donnel]

Well, anyone who says there isnt lag or quests arent broken in EQ2 is full of shit.

I never said there wasn't lag or broken quests, I said the situation was a lot better then what it was before.

Last night running around Antonica I had 0 perceptible server lag. I would execute a command, send a tell or talk in OOC and it would happen immediately.

This was with over 100 people in the zone.

[Mhila]

I pretty much quict EQ2 because of the insane lag I was getting in any zone where I could get decent XP at lvl 11. After a few poeple here said that lag was fixed I decided to go try it out for myself and see. The lag is most definatly still there. It may not be as bad as it was but its still unplayable with all the graphics turned on and nearly unplayable at half graphcis which is what I run it at... If your planning on Playing EQ2 I hope your ready to shell out some bucks for upgrades if you don't already have the most killer machine available.

I have a P4 3.06Ghz Processor overclocked to 3.6GHZ
Radeon 9600 XT Pro 256MB video card also overclocked as far as I can get it to go and still run stabile
1GB of PC2700 Ram

I have the processor and video card Watercooled and generally run about 90 degress processor temp playing EQ1 or EQ2. But even with a relatively good computer EQ2 still lags so bad I don't want to play it. When I was in WoW beta the game ran smooth as glass even when I went on a raid and I was able to run full graphics without a problem.

[Donnel]

EQ2 Full graphics > WoW Full Graphics, and yes I have played them both.

They are putting a LOT of great features/details into EQ2, and the game looks absolutely fabulous even on the "balanced"

There's a dev quote I will try and find that essentially goes like this.

in response to someone wondering if the graphics had been scaled back since the preview movies/screenshots where taken.

"No the graphics havn't been scaled back. if you want to use all the features that we have built into EQ2, you will have to wait until the computer hardware companies catch up to us"

AKA, you have a great looking game that runs fine and looks wonderful on average systems at "average quality" stop whining that you can't run next generation graphics on last generations gear.

Btw Mhila, ATI Radeon 9600 XT hates shadows, it's an ATI thing. Turn off shadows and your gameplay might improve 10 fold. I have about half the system you have and have little trouble.

[Tacks]

We all know graphics make a game right?...


WoW will appeal to a much greater audience because you can play the game on a 800 mhz machine if you wanted...try doing that with EQ2 lolzzz.

[Lyion]

EQ2 Full graphics > WoW Full Graphics, and yes I have played them both.

They are putting a LOT of great features/details into EQ2, and the game looks absolutely fabulous even on the "balanced"

"No the graphics havn't been scaled back. if you want to use all the features that we have built into EQ2, you will have to wait until the computer hardware companies catch up to us"

AKA, you have a great looking game that runs fine and looks wonderful on average systems at "average quality" stop whining that you can't run next generation graphics on last generations gear.

The thing is EQ2 will scale and get better looking as people upgrade. I've played WOW on three systems and it looks pretty much the same, even with all options maxed. Thats much more foresighted than using a lesser engine that looks ported straight from Warcraft 3.

Graphics aren't everything, but graphics and appearance are a huge part of MMOs. Give me Eye Candy!

I'm sure WOW and EQ2 will both do well in the market. The big test will be how many subscribers each game has a year from now.

[Solaar Powar]

I pretty much quict EQ2 because of the insane lag I was getting in any zone where I could get decent XP at lvl 11. After a few poeple here said that lag was fixed I decided to go try it out for myself and see. The lag is most definatly still there. It may not be as bad as it was but its still unplayable with all the graphics turned on and nearly unplayable at half graphcis which is what I run it at... If your planning on Playing EQ2 I hope your ready to shell out some bucks for upgrades if you don't already have the most killer machine available.

I have a P4 3.06Ghz Processor overclocked to 3.6GHZ
Radeon 9600 XT Pro 256MB video card also overclocked as far as I can get it to go and still run stabile
1GB of PC2700 Ram

I have the processor and video card Watercooled and generally run about 90 degress processor temp playing EQ1 or EQ2. But even with a relatively good computer EQ2 still lags so bad I don't want to play it. When I was in WoW beta the game ran smooth as glass even when I went on a raid and I was able to run full graphics without a problem.

Not to worry I am here for you... Just PM me your beta account info and I'll keep it warm till you get a computer that can run at full graphics.

[Donnel]

Not to worry I am here for you... Just PM me your beta account info and I'll keep it warm till you get a computer that can run at full graphics.

That computer isn't in the consumer market yet.

At least not for most people.

Oh and Taxx,

Graphics may not be everything but that is what this particular discussion was about so your rhetoric doesn't really fit.

BTW, Graphical lag and server lag are different beasts, and as has been advertised they really cleaned up the serverside lag quite a bit.

From the patch message-

*** Known Issues ***

- Still working on improving server performance.

So it's not like they are clueless about the problem.

[Solaar Powar]

That computer isn't in the consumer market yet.

They have been saying that for months but some people don't bother to keep up with those sort of things seems I should be paying alot less attention so I can get in the beta too.

[Donnel]

Not really sure what to make of your post. The computer needed to run with every option turned on won't be found in >95% of the homes where the game will be played. That doesn't people can't build one for themselves, I'm just saying it's not common.

Like Lyion said, EQ2 will scale as technology gets better. As technology gets better, it also trends cheaper by and large. Though they may have to wait 2 years to get the MOST out of EQ2's graphics engine, they don't have to wait 2 years to get a very GOOD looking game and by good I mean excellent.

[Solaar Powar]

I was poking fun at the person complaining that their system couldn't run EQ2 at full graphics when sony has said many times for quite a while that no system on the market today could run the game with all the options turned on.