EQ2 thoughts, level 1 to 10

[KaiineTN]

Arlos.. My rogue hit 60 with about 7-8 days played.. on beta 2, in a new economy.. no twinks.. and hardly any prior quest or location knowledge.. Easily 6 days considering the time I spent overnight in Taverns. Sure I was one of the first few 60's, but still, the game is too easy... But, if they change exp, then I think they would have a lack of quests and force people to grind a good portion of their levels >_<

[Lyion]

Lyion, when you left CS was actually still OK. It went to shit several months after they got rid of the server GM concept. By POP, it was really awful. You could go days without seeing a GM, ever. As I said, I've known people who had serious issues that went unresponded to for weeks, and that despite repeatedly petitioning in game, sending emails, etc.

As for my Sony hate, I don't think it's silly. You missed a lot of the worst of it, but having lived through what they did from Luclin on, believe me when I say they've earned it.

Hmm, guess I left at the right time.

Then, I saw what they did as the expansion went on. (and this is all the corporate bosses at SOE, not the devs). The final raid zone, the VP equivalent, was called Vex Thal, and required a key quest to get in. People found the questgiver, but no one could find the items he requested. SOE swore up and down and backwards that the quest was in and working, that the zone was done and finished, and they weren't artificially blocking anything. Much time went by, and pressure on SOE built, as no one found even a hint of the quest objects.

Meanwhile, the true situation was that the quest was NOT in the game, nor had ANYTHING been done on the zone, apart from the basic 3d modeling of the zone layout. Finally, when pressure built up enough, SOE gave the project to ONE dev, just one guy, and only gave him 1 week to complete it. This was several months into the expansion. I know this for an absolute fact, because I met the dev in question who did the zone and talked to him about it.

They repeated much of the same thing in POP, where Time wasn't done, they swore up and down it was, yet changed a encounter necessary to get there (The Rathe Council) such that it was unwinnable, to prevent people from going.

Their most recent expansion, Omens of War, which was recently released was actually supposed to be released 1-2 months before it was. The *ONLY* reason it was pushed back is because for the first time ever, the EQ community spoke with one voice, and said NO GODDAMN WAY. Their sales numbers for it were absolutely miniscule, and multiple famous EQ websites were advocating a boycott against the expansion. This forced them into massive spin control, to the point where they even flew a bunch of people out to SOE HQ, including reps from the major guilds, for 2 days of feelgood happy happy sunshine. They promised a bunch of things at that meeting, most of which they've completely failed to follow through on.

So why not cancel and leave? I know what you are saying here, and I've heard this from several friends, who also are still mad at SOE, but if there are that many issues just cancel until they are fixed.

Anyways, that is pretty fucked up. Do you think Smed has learned?

As for SWG, did you play it right at release? From all accounts I've ever read, even Star Wars fanbois, it was an absolute mess when it was first released. Planetside had some pretty major issues as well, some of which I am hearing they are only now getting around to getting fixed.

I beta tested it for 3 months and played it right at release. There were some definite fubar things, but it was nowhere near as bad as some people claimed. Many of the problems stemmed from a lot of 'idiots' who couldn't figure out the game.

The only real issue at release, outside of 2 skillsets that were missing portions, was the lack of content. The game itself was brilliant and extremely deep and dynamic. What it wasn't was EQ or AC, and so many couldn't figure it out. The first two weeks of SWG were rough, after that it was much better.

Now, no one I've spoken to, or seen posts from ANYWHERE on EQ2, even people who really like the game, think that it would be ready by even the original date of mid-late November, much less the new date of Nov 8th.

I've played the game all day today and I'll buy it if comes out Nov 8th. I'm sure there are bugs and fixes, but I'm having fun, havent crashed, have run at least 35 quests and levelled above 10.

Now, if you want me to compare WOW <where I've made 40+> with EQ2 where I'm barely in my teens, that I can't do.

Hopefully the competition and plethora of other MMOs will force everyone to make better products.

[Harrison]

SWG's only shortcoming for me was lack of content, it just felt empty. But besides that I loved it.

[Arlos]

I didn't cancel then because of the friends I had in game. As a GAME, EQ was absolute crap for a long time, but I kept playing because of the personal relationships. There were moments of perverse fun in there at times too, but all too often it was enjoyment of the kind espoused in the old joke: "Man sees another guy repeatedly hitting himself in the head with a hammer. Walks up to him and asks, 'Why do you keep hitting yourself with that hammer?' .... 'Because it feels so good when I stop....'"

Finally, I was completely fed up and burnt out, was kept playing for several months more by a friend, then I moved, didn't get DSL for 8 weeks, and came back to GoD (which was as bad or worse than Luclin), knowing a lot less people, with most of the people I was closest friends with already gone, and having lost the habit of playing every day... I just couldn't do it any more. Got completely fed up during a raid, blew up at some new guy in the monk/pulling channel, ripped him a new asshole, got a port out, logged, cancelled a couple days later.

As for Smed, it's obvious he hasn't learned if he's pushing EQ2 out with a Nov 8th date, when it's manifestly not ready by every single account I've read, even from very pro-EQ2 and anti-WOW people. By the time WOW goes live, it will have been in beta testing for 8-9 months. EQ2 has been in beta for what, 2-3? Which game do you think has had more time to iron out issues, and learn what abilities are and aren't balanced or workable?

There've been a ton of things that used to be in WOW that aren't any more, because they were unbalanced or didn't work as expected. Mage invisibility. Priests being the one with Sleep instead of mages. Skills worked totally differently, as did talents. Having such an extended testing period allows for much more fine tuning of things, and making sure the game is really ready. WOW, 6 months ago and just barely into Beta was already less buggy and more polished than Luclin was months after it went into production release.

As for SWG, you're about the only person I've seen who said it was good on release. Pretty much all other reviews I've read, even from gaming magazines, had extensive lists of massive problems that were there at release.

Anyway, I simply have not seen the kind of changes at SOE that would make me at all willing to spend my money on any of their products at this point. Having a friend who works on the game is a really big draw, to be sure, and is indeed basically the ONLY reason I'd consider playing it at this point. However, if I have to choose to give my money to a company I do not like and do not trust, and giving it to one that has yet to burn me... well, that's an easy decision.

-Arlos

[Naginataka]

In short, arlos hates sOe and therefore WOW can do no wrong and EQ2 is broken and bad in every way, regardless of contrarry information.

Hell, the people I know who maxxed level in WOW in 6-9 days played were lying. Kaaiine too.

Quests like "The spider population is getting too high, go kill 4 of them for uber exp bonus at completion" are INSPIRED!!!

A small world, little to do, no independence between players, super fast advancement, etc are GREAT!

[Lyion]

I think Arlos was burned and does not trust SOE. I can understand that.

I do know quite a few people who liked SWG and left for the content issues.
Most who bitched the loudest were those who wanted an EQ clone in the Star Wars universe, I think.

As I said, there were some big bugs, but it was playable and quite fun, but nothing like EQ, DAOC, AC, or the others.

[Arlos]

I'm a SOE fanboi, who apparently hates Blizzard, and therefore EQ2 is the greatest thing since sex and has no problems whatsoever, regardless of contrary information, and WOW is worse than Daikatana, again regardless of contrary information.

Sorry, had to fix your statement there.

-Arlos

[Harrison]

Daikatana, oh man that's like the nuclear bomb of all gaming insults.

[Lyion]

Daikatana was already released in MMO form. It was called 'Shadowbane'

[Lyion]

Something I really miss from WOW in EQ2 was the City guards telling my n00b ass where things were.

[Naginataka]

Yeah, this SOE fanboi who has no active accounts for any of their products other than a free beta is just sucking Soe dick all day long.

OMW home to burn all my blizzard games since I think WOW sucks and want to see SOE for TEH WINZ!!


anyway, the point is, arlos is a bitter whiney prick who can't be objective about it.

I was looking forward to WOW and not to EQ2 at all. after playing them both, I have reversed my opinion completely. WOW is a major dissapointment. After SWG I wasn't expecting SoE to do anything worth shit. I was in SWG beta and the fuckover they pulled at release make me skip all the other SOE games except EQ which I already was playing. I was suprised to see that they are doing what they said they would do. The game is really well done. You can't even compare it to WOW, you can compare wow to EQ1, but EQ2 is in a different league.

[Naginataka]

Something I really miss from WOW in EQ2 was the City guards telling my n00b ass where things were.

Ok, now you stumbled onto the worst part of EQ2.

I WAnT TO KILL THoSe fucKIng nPcS WHo TELl me THAT QeyNOS IS THEW fuckign BAsTIon Of light Or the Hope fo Good or the other damn crap they Spew over AnD oVera again!!!!!!

They need to add an option where you can turn off ambient voices.

[Lyion]

They need to add an option where you can turn off ambient voices.

Options -> Display -> Ambient Volume

[Naginataka]

WOOO!!!!

How did I miss that? Must have been the brain tumor caused by hearing how stupid I am in freeport and how good everyone is in Qeynos 100000000 times.

I haven't done much crafting, but apparently if you come out of a crafting instance there is a froglok there who spams you repeatedly!

[Lyion]

Go to Freeport. Its almost like a day at the Nameless Tavern.

Ironically, Qeynos is much more polished than Freeport.

Hello, Horde vs Alliance.

[dammuzis]

well since most of you know who i am (pretty much the least uber wizard ever in everquest) im a "casual" player mostly because work and real life are more important to me than a bunch of pretty pixels on the screen. that being said i played eq and other online games because i dont watch television and i needed some form of entertainment to blow off steam. single player games and mmogs were the answer.

im am neither a hater nor a fanboi

here is my gripes about eq2 so far

group xp debt (absolute moronic) currently it is more efficient to solo to 20 than it is to group

no offline selling (ala auction house in ffxi) basically this was a money decision on SOEs part, they know people are going to buy second accounts just to have a toon sit in a house all day and sell their mains items

some of the encounters are insanely broken and uncompletable until the encounter is so much lower than the group doing it that the reward is moot

ditto above with some quests

monks really do suck as tanks

that being said i cant wait till release as i love this game

[Lyion]

I've had two full days of EQ2 and its fun. I do have some gripes, though.

They have to make the Auction House work like other games, where you can put items for sale and not have to be online or have a second account, I'd think.

This game at release will be brutal. The early level zones are just killed with players. Some of the kill quests will really suck, even with their instancing with numbers at certain spots.

The game is extremely pretty, and I like the class setup better than WOWs very limited one. That said the class quests are at times frustrating, and the initial quests to introduce you to the city just suck. Running around zones looking for someone is not cool.

Housing is cool, and very fun. It adds a dimension that WOW is missing.

The debt system is ok, but not great.

WOW right now is just more 'fun' to play. Its easier to exp, the game is not setup to punish casual gamers, a la EQ2, and is much more streamlined and fun.

EQ2 is a very good game, and has more potential than WOW, but right now it's not as good a game.

I'll be buying both, but if EQ2 is this raw at release I'll be playing more WOW initially.

[Naginataka]

For both of you,

the sales feature is annoying. I love the setup where you can buy it instantly or go to the person's house to save some money, but not being able to do it offline I don't understand. Its not like they don't know how to make vendors with SWG.

I personally love the debt system, also if you get rezzed the debt you keep is so minor that you shouldn't notice it. Its really only a problem if you solo and suck. The small amount of debt you get if a groupmember dies I like and dislike. It encourages people to pay attention and do their jobs right. If the tank isn't taunting and the cleric is getting splattered, the tank is sharing the loss. I do think they need to fix it so stupid deaths like falling don't result in group debt.

The way you describe WOW sounds about like what I feel. It is a streamlined EQ1. But it doesn't ahve anything new to offer me. I don't want to play a new game that is identical to another one. Maybe thats why I don't play all the FPS games and rarely play any of the console style RPGs. They are all the same game.

[Treehorn]

Smed made the official announcement today that EQII will be shipping/going live on Nov. 8th.

This should be... interesting.

[Langston]

heh... how classic SOE....

[Tacks]

SWG anyone?

[Naginataka]

Ugg. Don't even compare. SWG had no set release date, the one that software stores had was 2 months away, they dropped NDA, went gold, and shipped all the same week. That game needed another year.

EQ2 is pretty much ready.

[chanteez]

I have been testing Wow since alpha... and i have a Beta account for eq2 as well....i also beta'd eq way back too.

as far as housing as someone mentioned.... wow is saving it for live, its been mentioned before.

Now i logged on eq2 2 nights ago ..... the graphics were buggy, i was walking through town and kept getting stuck...so i had to jump to get off that spot. and yes i have a 2.66 gig comp with 128 vid card etc etc...

The crafts menu sux, i dont find it well organized at all.

Hailing a bunch of npc's just to have them say nothing relevent except making you read nonsense is retarded, nothing like wasting time. either have them say nothing at all or give quest or merchant.

The quest menu is a improvement over eq, reminds me of wow.

I find the movement slower when fighting, the character graphics and water graphics or nice, but nothing more than that impressed me.

I am the type of player that likes variety, and tons of selection/content to choose from when i play, I need lots of area's to fight at all levels. EQ2 left me mainly in qeynos area. and leveling in eq2 wasnt any slower than wow.

I dont hate sony in any sort if anyone tries to say i do. But when i log on a game that is due to come out 2 weeks later, I expect it to be alot better than what i saw. I can see alot of people buying eq2 and either having to upgrade their comp alot, or having to play it with settings way down.

now with wow there is variety, the leveling curve will be slowed down for live.. they have said this over and over.... it is fast ... for beta purposes... omg they actually want higher end stuff tested properly!

The main raid content isnt implemented yet in wow... majority wont be till live. They will have both fast raid content, and long dungeon crawl content. You can solo np, or group/raid np. If i want a lil extra fun i can pvp on the non pvp server by defending towns from opposite faction, who are attacking.

The Trades are well set up, and relatively painless to work on.

The talents allow you to customize your character, to your game play.
my druid is high in restoring talents, where some might do balance which is more casting, or shapeshifting. and yes i can turn to bear (warrior based)/panther (rogue based)/cheetah(speed travel)/sealkinda thing (for water travel).

I can actually log on wow, play for hour and log off and not feel as tho i'm stuck having to go retreive my spirit essence (which i would have to fight to) or waiting for a rez.

Wow i can page a gm at 1 am pst, i'll test it in eq2 tonight and see if i can get a answer. I have seen suggestions implemented in patches.

I personally think eq2 is rushing it big time, and are just in a rush to beat blizzard on release. And I cant help but feel that will hurt them.

edit... removed my sig since so big :P

[Naginataka]

I didn't have any problems personally with the graphics before my computer fried. I will download and install it on my new system in a few days and see.

The quest menu does need improvement. It doesn't clear and you end up with a billion stupid quests listed and cannot sort them.

now with wow there is variety, the leveling curve will be slowed down for live.. they have said this over and over.... it is fast ... for beta purposes... omg they actually want higher end stuff tested properly!

I actually don't see the variety in the same levels as you see. In both games you move and see new zones at different levels, the difference is EQ2 has alot better quests mixed in with the regular dull ones. The ranger class quest which is basicly playing splinter cell is the best example.

As for the beta exp, the slowing down for release is a rumor started by players. Blizzard has never said that. They said that it was being tweaked and was probably slightly higher, but only players who realize the game is too fast and too easy are claiming that.

The talents allow you to customize your character, to your game play.
my druid is high in restoring talents, where some might do balance which is more casting, or shapeshifting. and yes i can turn to bear (warrior based)/panther (rogue based)/cheetah(speed travel)/sealkinda thing (for water travel).

All in EQ just not available for the testers. actually a HUGe amount of variation being added.

I can actually log on wow, play for hour and log off and not feel as tho i'm stuck having to go retreive my spirit essence (which i would have to fight to) or waiting for a rez.

Well you can always wait. I like death penelties. WOW made me feel there was no reason not to charge anything. EQ2 isn't as good as prepop EQ where you feared death, but there is a penelty. Worst case you lose some condition and don't log on for 3 days and make up the exp debt.

[chanteez]

In wow by level 10 i was able to fly to other end of continent and fight there if i chose to

nightelf area to gnome area to human area, which were surrounded by large variety of area's for that level. diff scenery etc

i just found starting area for eq2 boring, then going to qeynos i found the scenery of bog etc boring. and having to become a citizen to enter s. qeynos i found goofy.

I dont mind death penalties, i take them here and there in wow if i choose. but i definately dont miss the long cr's on raids.