OK, I knew group XP debt was stupid, but...

[Arlos]

Saw this on the monk board

Soooo, my wife tried out an EQ2 raid today.

Shared exp death from raid deaths is shared only among the group, not the whole raid. She's a rogue and died twice.However, she was grouped with a healer that tended to die. (You know this is going to be ugly ...) She eventually gave up after getting over 4 yellow bars, yes, over 40% of a level, of exp debt. It's fucking insane. I could chain die/rez/die/rez 100 times in old EQ and never come close to that kind of exp loss. I gotta admit seeing that looooong line of red was kinda impressive.

Keep in mind that's all with rezzes. No unrezzed deaths.

Worse, there is only ONE heal that works cross-group. That MT keeps dying? Guess he and his group better suck it up.


Anyway, if you thought the tales of people having half a level of exp debt from one bad group were a myth ... they aren't!

OK, this just kinda kills raids, if you have little chance to keep tanks alive, and how often certain classes tend to die. Talk about dis-incentives to raiding....

-Arlos

[Tikker]

well
seems more like an incentive to stop sucking cock and playing with some skill

[KILL]

Im still not too sure about the expt debt thing, but what he is saying isnt really taking a few things into consideration.

I'll assume she wasnt level 50, because I dont think anyone actually is, unless a GM gave them the level. And if she was, she wouldnt be complaining about exp debt, because it would be meaningless, as you dont actually lose any exp.

In EQ, anything under 49, you are going to get a 60% rez at best. And thats at 39. Under that, its going to suck even worse. Depending on how many deaths, losing a level would have been easy. Again, we dont know what level she was, do we?

Another thing, the experience debt you have is reduced while offline. I cant remember the exact amount, but it wouldnt be that long before that debt was erased completely. Probably a couple days at most.

I dont ever recall getting any exp back while I was offline in EQ.


I have mixed feelings about the shared debt system, [which is actually kind of new in beta, is it even making it to the live version?] but the debt system in general is a lot more bearable than losing a level or two from a bad raid.

[Naginataka]

well
seems more like an incentive to stop sucking cock and playing with some skill

Yep.

[Gargamellow]

well..it will definately seperate the boys from the men/girls from the women
I won't be playin...I will just buy it to make a guild...my char will prolyl be lvl 1 forever

[Adivina]

I was in a group on my iksar that kept dying over and over, i was just sitting at the zone waiting it out, unlike the rest of my group who kept charging to death. They ended up giving me 75% exp debt. Needless to say I said fuck it and make another char because I was so pissed at them.

[Lyion]

I had 5 deaths, but paid the debt off in an hour in the teens.

The thing is you are still getting exp, even while you're in debt. So if you're a smidgen from levelling, and you die 3 times, unlike EQ you are still a smidgen away and getting positive exp each kill.

I like the system, but I'm still a bit uneasy about the shared debt. It is however somewhat justice for those fuckers who run away when the fight gets hairy, thinking to save their exp.

It makes one consider who they are grouping with.

[Treehorn]

well
seems more like an incentive to stop sucking cock and playing with some skill

From what I've read the problem lies with the fact that group flagged npc "style" damage is really buggy, and far from being in proper working order. Sounds like regular NPC's are hitting for far too much damage on style attacks, and they also tend to be using styles that should not even be available to them (like stealth skills, etc.).

Getting 1-shotted by npc's your level in the teens or low twenties is bad, mmm kay?

[Adivina]

Getting 1-shotted by npc's your level in the teens or low twenties is bad, mmm kay?

Strange I have never run into that and I fight things that are generally a level above me or so. The only thing I have really had problems with was at a low level on my iksar mage a bunch of boneyard watchers camped my corpse, and they are INSANE.

[Treehorn]

Probably not, but there is STILL the crippling damage bug in the game.

Basically it goes like this.

Any mob that is over level 20 and flagged as a "group" mob + does insane style damage.

Example-on my level 19 brawler a level 22 dragoon from Nek forest hit me for 125 (not shabby) then styled me for 650. End result-squished rat, seeing as my max hp at 19 was in the neighborhood of 625. Now add to this that he has 3 friends with him, and quite simply put no tank is gonna survive it.

2nd Example-doing my bruiser class quest in serpent sewers. As I am exploring it a level 2x snake spawns near me and oneshots me with a 725!!! damage style.

3rd. Example Me versus a level 12 group++ caster at level 18 I ran after he nuked me to one bulb of health with him at full. Thats right a grey caster nuked me to near death in less than 5 seconds. Not only that but he was doing 3x the damage with comparable spells then most casters I know.

His static pulse was hitting me for 2x a tick and his lightning bolts were hitting me in the 80+ range.

Now, according to the devs, this is an error of sorts, as they don't want this type of damage front loaded, but they want the mobs to do that sort of damage over time. Hell I don't understand what it means, but it seems to suggest forced zerging.

I would like to ask the +20 crowd how they handle these mobs, my guy just hit 20 and I am scared spitless about the damage these guys front end.

[Gargamellow]

So..what u are saying is..when u die, you can get yourself rezzed, but it costs u some exp? Do cle give rez that give back all exp? What is the deal?

[Treehorn]

As I understand it, Garg, Xp debt in EQII works like debt in CoH.
Your actual xp never drops like in EQ, you can never "un-ding", but you're only going to get like 1/2 xp while you're working off your debt (you'll have a little debt bar, the more debt you accrue, the longer the bar).

Thing is, in EQII is someone in your group/ raid dies, everyone gets debt.

As I understand it, the debt you get for someone else's death is almost as much as a personal solo death rather than regular xp debt divided by number of people in group/ raid.

Either way, I don't care for the idea of group xp debt.

[Naginataka]

But if you get rezzed or you retrieve your spirit (corpse with no loot on it) almost all of the debt goes away.

And the debt really doesn't take that much to get rid of. A few groups of fights and its gone. Unless you don't retrieve your corpse (spirit shard).

[Gargamellow]

Well, is there a huge group exp bonus or something? That would be the only way to explain a group exp loss.
People are going to get bitchy in EQ2...

[Solaar Powar]

bitchy people in an everquest game...no way I don't beleave it.

[Donnel]

Last night I died on my fighter.

5 Blue solo mobs later and I was back into no debt. Took about 10 mins at the most.

[Naginataka]

Well, is there a huge group exp bonus or something? That would be the only way to explain a group exp loss.
People are going to get bitchy in EQ2...

Yeah, not HUGE but noticable.

[brinstar]

hehe this game is shipping in 11 days

[Naginataka]

hehe this game is shipping in 11 days

Yep. And the debt system is working fine.

Your point?

[Tacks]

Hehe, that game is broken.

[Naginataka]

As opposed tot he game where only half the game has ben tested

[Sarthis]

hehe, and how much of the high end game has been effectively beta'd in EQ?

[Tacks]

First of all, that was not FOH, secondly they didn't buff their levels. Thirdly, NOBODY has reached the level cap yet.

So effectively none of the high end content has been thoroughly tested other than what is being done internally.

1 raid with 30-40 people getting a mob to 90% health and you call that thoroughly tested?

[Lyion]

First of all, that was FOH, secondly they didn't buff their levels. Thirdly, NOBODY has reached the level cap yet.

So effectively none of the high end content has been thoroughly tested other than what is being done internally.

1 raid with 30-40 people getting a mob to 90% health and you call that thoroughly tested?

There were multiple members of FOH there.

The SOE Devs DID Buff their levels. Read the site, they went in at 41 and were inflated to 50 to test the raid.

Ebonlore has done MULTIPLE raids of high end instances and encounters.

Now, go back to being a quiet Blizzard Fanbois here before I bitchslap you some more.

[Tacks]

There were a few FOH member there, FOH didn't go.

Ok so I read it wrong...so 40 people got buffed to 50 and got a mob to 90%...thorough testing

Multiple being what? 10? 20? 50? The high end dungeons in WoW were tested thousands of times.