Good WOW thread on the main Forum

[Naginataka]

i figure WoW is trying to deemphasize leveling as the main focus of the game, that's why it's so quick to get to the top level

all of the people that played EQ aren't used to that, so when you hear "omg it only takes two weeks to get 60 that must mean it suxxxx" they're looking at it wrong

Why have a leveling system at all then? The problem isn't just that, its that the whole game is too easy. It is Blizzard's tradition, dumb the game down so anyone can do it.

[Tacks]

And it's SOE's tradition to put in pointless monotonous timesinks to expand their game's life since it's devoid of content so people keep paying their monthly fees as long as possible.

[Naginataka]

So what is fun in EQ2? I haven't found it yet.

Well,

1- The combat system is great.

1a- Sure you can get ina group and press the same 3 buttons over and over like in WOW, EQ, etc but all you are doing is hurting yourself. The HO system is better designed and better implemented than the FFXI skill chains and if used right adds alot of fun to the old press attack and take a nap gameplay.

1b- I love the inability to split groups, kite, etc. No kiting and reduced CC make fights a hell of alot more interesting.

1c- Closed/locked encounters. This allows them to do something other games cannot do, make sure that a fight is tuned to who will be fighting it. No more zerging. If you want to win you have to do it right.

1d- The fights etc are fun AND a challenge.

2- Death penelty is present.

2a- fear of death. The penelty is enough so that I don't want to shoot myself in the face if I die, it is still enogh to deter me from just charging, dying, charging, dying, charging, dying, over and over.

2b- Group death penelty. While they need to change things like falling death, this will weed out retards playing and everyone in the group will be doing their job. Makes grouping fun, something it often wasn't in EQ because of the huge idiot factor.

3 Grouping is better than solo, although while much slower, solo is available.

3a- You get to play a MMO and group! OMG! It is not a solo game where there are lots of other soloers to look at (horizons, WOW, SWG).

3b- thanks to 2b the retard level is lowered.

3c- the HO wheel is great. The missions are great.

4- Awesome missions.

4a- Same missions every mission game has as a base.

4b- New innovative style missions that no other MMO has. Like I have said before, show me a game that has anything like the Predator/ranger/assassin missions. (No fair showing me Thief 2 or Splinter Cell).

5- Graphics

5a- What do you want to bet someone replies to this saying "So all EQ2 has are better graphics?"

5b- I have a good graphics card and computer.


There are 5 things off the top of my head.

[Naginataka]

And it's SOE's tradition to put in pointless monotonous timesinks to expand their game's life since it's devoid of content so people keep paying their monthly fees as long as possible.

EQlive is devoid of content? Wow! If EQlive = 0 content WOW is how far into the negative?

And EQ2 doesn't have the big nasty timesinks like EQlive. If they put anything like VT keying into the game I am done.

[Tacks]

1) combat system is far more complex in WoW
2) nobody LIKES death penalty
3) to not allow people to solo is to shut off people who like to play that way. Is sitting around for 3 hours LFG FUN? fuck no.
4) many other games have awesome missions
5) graphics make the game right? most people aren't going to spend 200-500 bucks just to play a new game.

[Tacks]

How much content did EQ have at release? Nobody is going to dispute that Velious and Kunark were good. The rest was pure shit in a can.

[Harrison]

There is solo content all the way through, Ive been heavily asking around about that.

[Naginataka]

1) combat system is far more complex in WoW

Yep

2) nobody LIKES death penalty

I do. Makes the game a challenge. Makes failing mean something.

3) to not allow people to solo is to shut off people who like to play that way.
Is sitting around for 3 hours LFG FUN? fuck no.

You can solo lvl 1-50

4) many other games have awesome missions

Well, since most of the arguements come down to WOW vs EQ2 right now, only one of them has awesome missions.

5) graphics make the game right? most people aren't going to spend 200-500 bucks just to play a new game.

MY PREDICTION WAS TRUE!

There are some pretty low end systems that can play EQ2, you just don't get to see all the pretty. True, a 5 year old computer can run WOW, but you certainly don't have to buy a new computer to PLAY eq2.

[Langston]

1- The combat system is great.

1a- Sure you can get in a group and press the same 3 buttons over

And that is precisely what 80% of the players will wind up doing.

1b- I love the inability to split groups, kite, etc. No kiting and reduced CC make fights a hell of alot more interesting.

No, that means more pointless deaths because there is no way to manage adds. CC and/or kiting (or similar strategies) are for the SMART player, not the gimp who can only play when he single pulls.

1d- The fights etc are fun AND a challenge.

Here's your fanboi badge... oh wait, you already have one....

2- Death penelty is present.

2a- fear of death. The penelty is enough so that I don't want to shoot myself in the face if I die, it is still enogh to deter me from just charging, dying, charging, dying, charging, dying, over and over.

WoW's death system is far too lax. I have to agree.

2b- Group death penelty. While they need to change things like falling death, this will weed out retards playing and everyone in the group will be doing their job. Makes grouping fun, something it often wasn't in EQ because of the huge idiot factor.

However, this is utter bullshit. There isn't going to be fewer idiots out there. Once you think you have made something idiot proof, the idiots evolve into MegaIdiots. Don't fool yourself - this is a stupid policy that will wind up beating up the good players till they leave or segregate themselves into a niche at the top end of the game and there will be a massive division between the top 5% and the others - moreso even than you saw in PoP with the "ubers" being in Time and everyone else struggling to get into just Tier3. This is a HORRIBLE idea...

3 Grouping is better than solo, although while much slower, solo is available.

3a- You get to play a MMO and group! OMG! It is not a solo game where there are lots of other soloers to look at (horizons, WOW, SWG).

Sure... that's great for those people who enjoy grouping the majority of the time. Others don't care for grouping every moment... and penalties for soloing are passe.

3b- thanks to 2b the retard level is lowered.

Only a retard would believe that statement.

5- Graphics

5a- What do you want to bet someone replies to this saying "So all EQ2 has are better graphics?"

5b- I have a good graphics card and computer.

So, all EQ2 has is better graphics, penalties for grouping - but penalties if you do NOT group. Yay!

[Naginataka]

How much content did EQ have at release?

Trying to compare EQ at release to any 2nd to 3rd generation MMORPG is like trying to compare fucking with our evolutionary grandpappies who just spermed the hell out of the water and hoped an egg got hit.

[Naginataka]

1- The combat system is great.

1a- Sure you can get in a group and press the same 3 buttons over

And that is precisely what 80% of the players will wind up doing.

And they will be vastly unsucessful if they do. People said the same thing about FFXI skill chains and guess what? (I am in NO WAY defending FFXI, a game where the only good part was the skill chains)

1b- I love the inability to split groups, kite, etc. No kiting and reduced CC make fights a hell of alot more interesting.

No, that means more pointless deaths because there is no way to manage adds. CC and/or kiting (or similar strategies) are for the SMART player, not the gimp who can only play when he single pulls.

No, it means MORE strategy instead of the exact same dull thing over and over again. ANd anyone who thinks that those strats were for smart or good players is.. well, I will be nice since I don't want to hurt retarded people's feelings.

1d- The fights etc are fun AND a challenge.

Here's your fanboi badge... oh wait, you already have one....

Can't deny it though. Instead of explain why it isn't fun or challenging you make an insult. Great debating technique!

2- Death penelty is present.

2a- fear of death. The penelty is enough so that I don't want to shoot myself in the face if I die, it is still enogh to deter me from just charging, dying, charging, dying, charging, dying, over and over.

WoW's death system is far too lax. I have to agree.

2b- Group death penelty. While they need to change things like falling death, this will weed out retards playing and everyone in the group will be doing their job. Makes grouping fun, something it often wasn't in EQ because of the huge idiot factor.

However, this is utter bullshit. There isn't going to be fewer idiots out there. Once you think you have made something idiot proof, the idiots evolve into MegaIdiots. Don't fool yourself - this is a stupid policy that will wind up beating up the good players till they leave or segregate themselves into a niche at the top end of the game and there will be a massive division between the top 5% and the others - moreso even than you saw in PoP with the "ubers" being in Time and everyone else struggling to get into just Tier3. This is a HORRIBLE idea...

I didn't mean that the idiots would quit, but yes it will segregate the players. You will be much more known with this new system for being a fucktard. Stratification is a good thing.

3 Grouping is better than solo, although while much slower, solo is available.

3a- You get to play a MMO and group! OMG! It is not a solo game where there are lots of other soloers to look at (horizons, WOW, SWG).

Sure... that's great for those people who enjoy grouping the majority of the time. Others don't care for grouping every moment... and penalties for soloing are passe.

There are no penelties for soloing. none at all. It is slower, but you can solo 1-50.

3b- thanks to 2b the retard level is lowered.

Only a retard would believe that statement.

See above.

5- Graphics

5a- What do you want to bet someone replies to this saying "So all EQ2 has are better graphics?"

5b- I have a good graphics card and computer.

So, all EQ2 has is better graphics, penalties for grouping - but penalties if you do NOT group. Yay!

Sure! If you ignore all the other points I made!

[Langston]

OK - so you're saying that a chanter that mezzes adds or a shaman that uses slow agro to split mobs away from the casters and then roots them off are suck players?

You're an idiot.

The rest of what you replied with didn't argue any of my points. So my statement still stands:

So, all EQ2 has is better graphics, penalties for grouping - but penalties if you do NOT group. Yay!

[Naginataka]

OK - so you're saying that a chanter that mezzes adds or a shaman that uses slow agro to split mobs away from the casters and then roots them off are suck players?

You're an idiot.

The rest of what you replied with didn't argue any of my points. So my statement still stands:

So, all EQ2 has is better graphics, penalties for grouping - but penalties if you do NOT group. Yay!

No, I am saying the old EQ folmula for kiting and CC that was used over and over again in exactly the same way was crap and anyone could do it.

And maybe you should go back and read the arguements that show your statemnt has no basis in reality, or is the blizzard dev belly button in your eyes obscuring your ability to read?

[Langston]

I'm not a WoW fanboi... never claimed to be. However, I will call bullshit on someone who is nothing but propaganda and bullshit... like yourself. Stop sucking cock long enough to listen to yourself...

[Naginataka]

I'm not a WoW fanboi... never claimed to be.

Well duh. Why would you. If you admitted it you couldn't lie and say you weren't one.

However, I will call bullshit on someone who is nothing but propaganda and bullshit... like yourself. Stop sucking cock long enough to listen to yourself...

Then point out the Bullshit. Explain why it is bullshit. Prove what I said was wrong.

[Tae-Bo]

haha what the fuck?

seriously i've never seen more of a slobbering retard over a game in my life

i don't take one thing this retard says seriously, if this is the type of rabid-mega-nerd that likes EQ2 then there's no way in hell i'd ever get close to that game

[Tacks]

Look at his posts on the official EQ2 forum, he's more of a little bitch there.

[Naginataka]

Got to love hypocrites.

We could just as easily do a search on your posts here.

[DangerPaul]

hey, thanks for gaying up yet another thread !

[narreg]

hey, thanks for gaying up yet another thread !

gaying up = DangerPaul

[Tikker]

can't we just get the eq2 fanboi banned from the WoW forum?

[Naginataka]

can't we just get the eq2 fanboi banned from the WoW forum?

I know the truth is hard to accept. It is easier to just get mad and call someone who has said that WOW is a good game a fanboy because they don't worship it and think that other games are better.

Can we get the WOW fanboys banned from the EQ forum?

[Tae-Bo]

you are incredibly dumb

[chanteez]

most players here were eq players.... or still are, some tested both games so know how each perform. some or many who probably have way more experience with eq than others...(so thats why they shouldnt be banned from the "eq" forum)

So keep in mind some of us know eq's track record...

and p.s. there is no eq2 forum to bann them from

[Arlos]

What truth are you referring to? You haven't posted a single gram of it yet.

Have you missed how many people have said that despite EQ2s higher res graphics, that everything looks soulless? Did you miss the link to that slate article about why that is? Did you miss the fact that anyone who does NOT have a state-of-the-art machine is going to have to lower the graphics settings so much to get a decent frame rate that the models will look WORSE than EQ1? I saw a screenshot of a halfling taken on someone on the 2nd-from-bottom graphics setting, and my gods, it looked like something from a PS1. It was basically a tan lump with a smaller lump on top of it for a head, and 4 lumpy limbs. There was functionally no face at all, just a couple darker patches here and there.

I've seen EQ2 screenshots at high resolutions. Landscape looks nice, water is WAY too reflective, and I just don't like the character models. Not to mention, I'd probably get about 2 FPS on my system with any sort of reasonable visuals. My machine doesn't suck, but it's not stellar either. (XP2000, 512 ram, GeForce FX 5600). More polys does not necessarily give you any sort of artistic style. Sure, WOW's graphics are lower res than EQ2s, but they fit into a great thematic whole, and what they do with the engine is pretty amazing.

Now, how about that EQ2 questing system? You actually LIKE having to run around to every single NPC that MIGHT give you a quest and hail them every single level to see if they have a new quest? You like hunting over multiple zones for 1 specific NPC with no real guidance on where to go?

I simply fail to understand how ANYONE can like the concept of group XP debt. Kinda removes the utility of Feign Death (which I think monks still get, yes?) Sure, YOU don't die from a fight gone wrong, but you still get debt from the 5 other people. I know how often healers or wizard types can die in raids, if something bad happens (MT dies, over-aggro, etc.) It's hardly fair to penalize everyone else who just happens to be grouped with certain classes. You're also laughably wrong in it getting rid of the idiots. All it acts to do is be a penalty on anyone who happens to be unlucky enough to get grouped with an idiot or a newb. All it's going to make people do is take the absolute safest path for everything, to minimize risk of getting penalized for someone else's mistake, which means that once people DO hit max level, they will have NO experience at anything tough, much like we saw in EQ1, with the generation that grew up in Dreadlands, etc. and never actually did dungeons.

If you think pulling, mezzing, or other CC was so easy that anyone could do it, you were obviously either a retard or playing with lots of them. I know I've seen some of the best pullers to ever play do some REALLY amazing things, that 99% of other pullers I've seen could never dream of doing. I've seen amazing enchanters keep battles under control where a battle half that size would overwhelm most lesser enchanters. etc. etc. etc. Forcing all pulls to be exactly pre-ordained, and doing away with CC just dumbs everything down, and doesn't promote skill in the least.

How about the lack of replayability? Every single character you EVER make is going to be doing EXACTLY the same things and EXACTLY the same quests in EXACTLY the same place, at least for the first 5 levels. That's gonna get REAL old by the 2nd character, and downright tedious by the 3rd and later. And if you want to make someone who starts out as the same low level archtype, that's even more levels of identical content. At least even EQ1 had tons of starting zones, so every race/class combo you picked would have at least SOME differentiation. WOW does this, as do most, if not all other MMOs. How is making a dis-incentive to make new characters a GOOD thing? Lots of people I know are alt-a-holics, who love the low levels, and make tons of different kinds of characters. You see this a lot in COH especially. Those kind of people are going to HATE EQ2.

I'm sure there's a lot of good stuff in EQ2, buried under all the bad design decisions and bugs unfixed due to the artificially rapid release date. I trust my friend who's a coder for the game implicitly to do good work, and I don't think the game's going to be another Daikatana. However, if it didn't have the "EQ" name attached to it, I think it would be in danger of being another Horizons or Shadowbane.

-Arlos