namelesstavern.net

brinstar wrote:yeah, nice. make fun of someone's spelling skills. like that fucking matters in this discussion? child.

but anyway--

Narrock wrote:It all comes down to having respect for your country.

i think that is exactly the issue. people don't burn the flag in protest because it's trendy or because it's taboo, they burn it because they believe their country is no longer worthy of respect due to its actions and/or policies.

no one's asking you to burn your flag. you don't even have to listen to these people explain why they don't respect america! just ignore it and you'll already be undermining their purpose more than any law could.

this whole amendment proposal is just political grandstanding at its finest. deplorable.

Child? ROFL. The guy is constantly making spelling errors. Constantly. I thought it was about time he got called on it. I'm surprised he graduated high school.

Anyway, about this statement:

people don't burn the flag in protest because it's trendy or because it's taboo, they burn it because they believe their country is no longer worthy of respect due to its actions and/or policies

Burning the flag isn't going to make a politician say, "hmm... maybe we ought to re-think this policy." If you think this country is not worthy of respect anymore, then by all means... go find a better country and STFU. Oh, and good luck finding a better country than the U.S.A.

Narrock wrote:

brinstar wrote:yeah, nice. make fun of someone's spelling skills. like that fucking matters in this discussion? child.

but anyway--

Narrock wrote:It all comes down to having respect for your country.

i think that is exactly the issue. people don't burn the flag in protest because it's trendy or because it's taboo, they burn it because they believe their country is no longer worthy of respect due to its actions and/or policies.

no one's asking you to burn your flag. you don't even have to listen to these people explain why they don't respect america! just ignore it and you'll already be undermining their purpose more than any law could.

this whole amendment proposal is just political grandstanding at its finest. deplorable.

Child? ROFL. The guy is constantly making spelling errors. Constantly. I thought it was about time he got called on it. I'm surprised he graduated high school.

Anyway, about this statement:

people don't burn the flag in protest because it's trendy or because it's taboo, they burn it because they believe their country is no longer worthy of respect due to its actions and/or policies

Burning the flag isn't going to make a politician say, "hmm... maybe we ought to re-think this policy." If you think this country is not worthy of respect anymore, then by all means... go find a better country and STFU. Oh, and good luck finding a better country than the U.S.A.

On the contrary Mindia I think it's extreme actions like that that make the politicians think. Look at the Boston Tea Party for example? Nowadays, burning the US flag would be the number 1 form of protest and way of showing your defiance.

Like Mindia pretty much said...if you dont have any respect left for the flag of my country, then go to Canada or something, I dont reckon I'll shed a tear. Good god i pity the person who has the nuts to burn a flag around here, you would be lynched before you knew what hit ya

I'm all for this amendment. No one deserves what you call the 'freedom' to burn the American flag.

Markarado wrote:I'm all for this amendment. No one deserves what you call the 'freedom' to burn the American flag.

It's called free speech. The same thing that allows the KKK to have a rally in your city with proper permits and authorization. Before anyone starts ripping this post to pieces let me just say I'm very much against what the KKK have to say and the act itself of burning the American Flag is uncool and it serves no purpose other than to piss off simple minded Americans but that's not the point. The point is freedom of speech and expression. That may be the most extreme case of it, but it still falls under the umbrella of the first amendment. If we lose this right, you might as well take away our right to criticize our government and call it treason.

Those idiot rednecks miss the point. It's a flag and nothing more than cloth and fabric with colors and stars. It's a symbol. Symbols only hold meaning to those who uphold what the principles behind the symbol are. In the end, it has nothing to do with said symbol. It's the principles and people behind it that make it what it is.

You want to talk about being anti American? How many people cut corners on taxes, buy imported goods that hurt our economy, outsource employees and lay off Americans, fuck hard working Americans out of their retirement funds, kill the American population with ricockulous gas prices and worst of all send our soldiers to die over a stupid fucking war. I'll burn every flag in the country if it reversed all of the other ridiculous "anti American" problems we have going on in this country. I call it anti American because it fucks real Americans over. You want to make an amendment out of something, solve any one of these problems then bring it before Congress before you bring up a ridiculous piece of tri colored cloth.

Jay wrote:

Markarado wrote:I'm all for this amendment. No one deserves what you call the 'freedom' to burn the American flag.

It's called free speech. The same thing that allows the KKK to have a rally in your city with proper permits and authorization. Before anyone starts ripping this post to pieces let me just say I'm very much against what the KKK have to say and the act itself of burning the American Flag is uncool and it serves no purpose other than to piss off simple minded Americans but that's not the point. The point is freedom of speech and expression. That may be the most extreme case of it, but it still falls under the umbrella of the first amendment. If we lose this right, you might as well take away our right to criticize our government and call it treason.

Those idiot rednecks miss the point. It's a flag and nothing more than cloth and fabric with colors and stars. It's a symbol. Symbols only hold meaning to those who uphold what the principles behind the symbol are. In the end, it has nothing to do with said symbol. It's the principles and people behind it that make it what it is.

You want to talk about being anti American? How many people cut corners on taxes, buy imported goods that hurt our economy, outsource employees and lay off Americans, fuck hard working Americans out of their retirement funds, kill the American population with ricockulous gas prices and worst of all send our soldiers to die over a stupid fucking war. I'll burn every flag in the country if it reversed all of the other ridiculous "anti American" problems we have going on in this country. I call it anti American because it fucks real Americans over. You want to make an amendment out of something, solve any one of these problems then bring it before Congress before you bring up a ridiculous piece of tri colored cloth.

Jay, the point you (and a lot of other people miss) is that it's not just a "piece of cloth" to most people. That's like saying the Bible is "just a book." You have to be able to differentiate between the item (flag, bible, etc.) and what it stands for. Those "idiot rednecks" you speak of are very proud Americans, and love their country.

Once again, and for the 4th time... this issue is not about "freedom of speech." It's for protecting a "sacred" (if you will) symbol.

Erik, the point you and other people miss is that by outlawing the burning of the flag you take away the fact that so many people fought to make it a symbol of respect and the fact that it's very VERY taboo to burn one isn't because it's illegal, but because there's that high an amount of respect behind it. You can say all you want how it's not freedom of speech. Dude, it clearly is. Freedom of speech AND expression.

Furthermore, there's so much more important shit out there to make an amendment from and what have people been debating? Gay marriage and flag burning. That's what the fuck is wrong with this country and this idiotic law. Fuck how people feel about a symbol, solve a real fucking problem and get to that idiotic shit later. You solve our gas price problem and I'll be a little less harsh on your flag burning amendment.

Narrock wrote:Once again, and for the 4th time... this issue is not about "freedom of speech." It's for protecting a "sacred" (if you will) symbol.

(i will not)

im tired of hearing people bitch and cry about gas prices. Cry me a river, they arent going down. Time to get over it.

People who want to burn a flag will still do so even if the ammendment passes.

We don't have enough room in our jails for them all anyway.

Fucking A, you guys just reached my patience limit. You are all acting like this happens all the time, that people are burning flags by the bushell. Hate to break it to you, but this is insanely rare. It almost INVARIABLY makes the news when people at anything major burn a flag in protest due to the controversy, and I havent' seen ANY such news reports recently. It's REALLY REALLY RARE for this to happen, so stop trying to claim "there wouldn't be enough room in the jails for all the people doing it", because that's pure unadultrated grade-A prime bullshit, and you know it.

-Arlos

its definitly more than just a stupid piece of cloth to me

arlos wrote:Fucking A, you guys just reached my patience limit. You are all acting like this happens all the time, that people are burning flags by the bushell. Hate to break it to you, but this is insanely rare. It almost INVARIABLY makes the news when people at anything major burn a flag in protest due to the controversy, and I havent' seen ANY such news reports recently. It's REALLY REALLY RARE for this to happen, so stop trying to claim "there wouldn't be enough room in the jails for all the people doing it", because that's pure unadultrated grade-A prime bullshit, and you know it.

-Arlos

Hey arlos, settle it down man.

I meant to put a smiley at the end of that line so you'd know I was being sarcastic. If you recall I don't agree with the amendment.

Yes it's rare. Not as rare as I think you'd say but no I don't think it's happening by the bushel.

It will still happen regardless of whether the amendment passes, the only difference being, now we have to tie up our courts time.

If the amendment passes it will still tie up our court system. Think of the cases now. "His actions are legal under the first amendment but illegal under the 28th amendment. Which takes presedence." The superem court has already ruled that flag burning falls under the first amendment,

Donnel wrote:the only difference being, now we have to tie up our courts time.

Meant that as in: if it passes we will have to tie up the courts.

Clarification ftl

Long day already, mind working a bit slow today.

I hear that...

I'm gonna laugh my ass off when some retard who is burning the flag in front of a camera, in some typical stupid protest, gets clocked by somebody.

brinstar wrote:

Narrock wrote:Once again, and for the 4th time... this issue is not about "freedom of speech." It's for protecting a "sacred" (if you will) symbol.

(i will not)

What a shocker.

Inciteful.

Gaazy wrote:im tired of hearing people bitch and cry about gas prices. Cry me a river, they arent going down. Time to get over it.

So I suppose we should stop complaining when our government fucks up too because that will never stop happening? We criticize our government and "bitch" to make this country better. If you're ok with handing out your money to an oil company then do what you wanna do but until gas prices are proportionate to average income I'm gonna keep "bitching" until something gets done.

I dont want to leave i want my country to stop fucking up. You know sky high taxes wars no one wants putting people in jail for victimless crimes and that kinda thing. If i left it would be letting all of the people i hate drive me from my home and that isnt gonna happen. Respect is to be earned anyone ever tell you that homie. And right now right here in 2006 the country isnt doing a whole lot to earn that respect. Freedom of speech trumps symbols and if you dont think thats the way it should be im sure your a way bigger retard than you think i am. I swear to fucking god you babies need to grow some thicker skinl. If someone burning a flag makes life unbearable to you and wrecks your day you should just quit cuz life gets way harder than that

spazz wrote:I dont want to leave i want my country to stop fucking up. You know sky high taxes wars no one wants putting people in jail for victimless crimes and that kinda thing. If i left it would be letting all of the people i hate drive me from my home and that isnt gonna happen. Respect is to be earned anyone ever tell you that homie. And right now right here in 2006 the country isnt doing a whole lot to earn that respect. Freedom of speech trumps symbols and if you dont think thats the way it should be im sure your a way bigger retard than you think i am. I swear to fucking god you babies need to grow some thicker skinl. If someone burning a flag makes life unbearable to you and wrecks your day you should just quit cuz life gets way harder than that

please explain to me what a victimless crime is? For the love of god please dont say use of drugs because atm there is nothing victimless about it - if they legalized it then that would change but atm it is not a victimless crime...

A victi less crime is a " crime: where no one is hurt or only the person doing whatever is hurt. Drugs and prostitution are both on that list. Id put burning the flag on there too if it was against the law. I guess no one informed me on what freedom means. I allways thought it meant that you did as you pleased worshipped as you pleased and beleived as you pleased long as you met your responsibilities and didnt hurt anyone.

Soooo drugs and prostitution are victimless?

What about the teenager who thinks it would be cool the try acid, and then ends up having acid flashbacks one day, possibly when driving and runs someone over? (Acid stores deposits in your spine, don't give me bullshit about it, one of my mother's friends now spends her life talking to fucking paintings and believing they talk back after a bad acid incident.)

What about the father who shoots up to escape reality, overdoses and dies, leaving behind his family to fend for themselves? Are they not victims?

What about the man who catches an STD from a shady hooker, comes home and transmits to to his wife or girlfriend? Is she not a victim?

What about the prostitute who ends up beaten to death by a customer, or the dealer who has now reformed his life and one day ends up getting shot by someone who used to have an issue with them. Are they not victims? Is their family not affected?

What about the children who are beaten and molested by their cracked out good for nothing drig binging father? I certainly think they are victims.