namelesstavern.net

Now, if we can just get Howard Dean fired, we might have a civil general election.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/02/26 ... 0036.shtml

Cunningham repeatedly used Obama’s middle name and attacked the media for their coverage of Republicans. "At some point in the near future, the media – the stooges from the New York Times, CBS – the Clinton broadcasting system – NBC – the nobody but Clinton network – the all Bill Clinton channel, ABC, and the Clinton news network at some point is going to peel the bark off Barack Hussein Obama,” he said. “At some point, the media will quit taking sides in this thing and maybe start covering Barack Hussein Obama the same way they covered Bush, the same way they covered Cheney and the same way the cover every Republican. I'll look forward to that day when truth comes."

After the event, McCain’s first words with reporters were to distance himself from Cunningham’s rant. “I regret any comments that may be made about these two individuals who are honorable Americans,” McCain said, referring to Hillary Clinton and Obama. “We just have strong philosophical differences. And so I want to disassociate myself from any disparaging remarks that may have been said about them.”

McCain said he had never met Cunningham and would make sure none of the speakers at his events denigrated his opponents. “Any comment that is disparaging of either Senator Clinton or Senator Obama is totally inappropriate and I have never done that on any of my campaigns,” he said. “I absolutely repudiate such comments.”

Martrae wrote:Fine....then say THAT instead of the other bullshit you focus on.

What other bullshit?

araby wrote:There are people who won't vote for Hillary because she's a woman and others that will for the same reason. Obama and the rest are not exempt from this, they're going to get votes for all kinds of reasons. Some people will not want to elect someone who won't wear the American flag on his lapel, or put their hand over their heart..etc..

It's not *my* reasoning. My reasoning is the issues..but for some people these *are* issues. If there's a reason to throw your hands into the air when it comes to politics, this is it-the apathetic voters, and the uneducated voters. But if we throw up our hands, who's left?

Yah, no one likes shit slinging. The campaigning is going to be really ugly-I'm kinda mad that this is what we're facing, takes the fun out of a race. Blame stupid people, blame ignorance, blame who/whatever...but it's how it is. And it's too bad.

I would vote for a woman for president, if she were a conservative, and I liked what she had to say. Laura Ingraham would've been great.

Narrock wrote:

Martrae wrote:Fine....then say THAT instead of the other bullshit you focus on.

What other bullshit?

All the meaningless garbage about turbans and other crap. It really dilutes any point you may have and makes you look bad.

Narrock wrote:I'd rather see the Hildebeast in office than Obama. He is not a good man. He has bad intentions for this country, despite the propaganda he posts on his website. I'm not buying in to his bullshit.

I just would like to know why you think hes a bad man. why you feel he has bad intentions and what you think his intentions are. He and Hillary have quite a few very similar views; what is it that you feel makes her less of a 'bad person'?

I mean it's curiosity for curiosity's sake. Certainly, aside from the representation you've shown in this thread, you have reasons for thinking these things other than media and opponent portrayal.

Jay wrote:IMO Ever, I think that kind of spending is exactly what we need. Circulation is very important in the economy and the use of money will birth plenty of opportunity jobs and most importantly, return.

with the amount of money being wasted in iraq this kind of spending is irresponsible.

Jay wrote:IMO Ever, I think that kind of spending is exactly what we need. Circulation is very important in the economy and the use of money will birth plenty of opportunity jobs and most importantly, return.

Unless that money is printed from thin air with no real backing other than the US stamp of approval. It increases the number of dollars in circulation that results in a decreased dollar value which in turn lowers the actual income earned I make every year.

Eliminate the IRS. Impose a 1% Federal tax on all trade. Evaluate if departments should even exist, instead of how much we should spend.

People, especially the lower class, would blow the money saved from income tax which results in an increased economy as well as removing any power the lobbyists have.

Naethyn wrote:

Jay wrote:IMO Ever, I think that kind of spending is exactly what we need. Circulation is very important in the economy and the use of money will birth plenty of opportunity jobs and most importantly, return.

Unless that money is printed from thin air with no real backing other than the US stamp of approval. It increases the number of dollars in circulation that results in a decreased dollar value which in turn lowers the actual income earned I make every year.

Eliminate the IRS. Impose a 1% Federal tax on all trade. Evaluate if departments should even exist, instead of how much we should spend.

People, especially the lower class, would blow the money saved from income tax which results in an increased economy as well as removing any power the lobbyists have.

Well yeah, inflation happens when you spend on something that won't return your profit. Something like...a war perhaps? Spend it on product, people, investments, building jobs and you have a winning economy. That money breathes life into the economy because people will spend it.

Inflation has nothing to do with profit. It is all about how many dollars are in the market. The more dollars we create from nothing the less each dollar is worth.

Understood, but a couple of factors come into play here.

1) Money spent, more jobs and more circulation will help our deficit. That is more tangible than thin air.

2) 270 Billion is hardly enough to shift us into an inflation. We spend that in a short amount of time on the war.

3) Circulation will raise our GNP, again, tangible not thin air.

That talk show host responded, Lyion: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/27/ ... pstoryview

What a jackass. I must give McCain kudos for his actions on this one.

-Arlos

Yeah, living in Ohio I'm familiar with him, unfortunately.

His ilk is the epitome of the opposite of what WFB stood for and what is wrong with politics today.

Gypsiyee wrote:

Narrock wrote:I'd rather see the Hildebeast in office than Obama. He is not a good man. He has bad intentions for this country, despite the propaganda he posts on his website. I'm not buying in to his bullshit.

I just would like to know why you think hes a bad man. why you feel he has bad intentions and what you think his intentions are. He and Hillary have quite a few very similar views; what is it that you feel makes her less of a 'bad person'?

I mean it's curiosity for curiosity's sake. Certainly, aside from the representation you've shown in this thread, you have reasons for thinking these things other than media and opponent portrayal.

I'll play.

Voted against banning partial birth abortion. (Oct 2007) I'm pro choice. In fact I'm pro abortion. More abortions means less liberals in the future. But I find partial birth abortion to be an abhorrent practice that should be banned. If you can't make your mind up in 6 months, grab your knickers and finish the ride.

Constitution is a living document; no strict constructionism. (Oct 2006) The Constitution is not a living document. While I may concede that there are occasions for amendments, the liberal definition of "living document" means restricting the rights of many to attempt and protect a few. This is against my core beliefs.

Regulate financial instruments to protect home mortgages. (Aug 2007) Otherwise known as "bail outs." I'm sorry you're losing your home Francis, but when you speculated that you could afford a $250,000 ARM based on your $30,000 a year combined income, you lost. It's not my fault, and I don't want to pay for your mistake.

Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998) As above, it's not a living document. It says, shall not be infringed. I am not a criminal for possession of an item. More infringements do not equal less crime.

Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005) Gun manufacturers are only as responsible for what is done with their product as Ford or Microsoft is. If I beat someone to death with my Creative Zen Touch, is the family of the victim going to sue Creative labs for making their MP3 player heavy duty enough to smite someone with?

Voted with Democratic Party 96.0% of 251 votes. (Sep 2007) Looks to me like he's a party man, not his own man. I don't have a lot of faith in any Dem or Rep that goes with the flow all the time. In fact, it's my belief that's why we have so much shit legislation to begin with.

Estate tax only affects the wealthiest 1/2 of 1%. (Oct 2006); Voted NO on permanently repealing the `death tax`. (Jun 2006) I don't care who it effects. It's their money, they earned it, they earned the right to pass it on.

Surge strategy has made a difference in Iraq but failed. (Nov 2007) ORLY?

Would like to limit management compensation to 50 times the lowest-paid full-time worker. 50 times is a lot huh? So if I start a company from scratch, and break my balls turning it into a profitable enterprise, took all the risk myself, now you're going to limit the profits I'm allowed to draw from it based on what my janitors make?


It's pretty clear to me that Obama leans hard left. Is he Che? No. But his ideas clash harshly with my ideology. Every little peck of "change" he wants to make, will harm this country either economically, or civilly. Steal my rights under the guise of protecting others. Steal my money to give to those who have not earned it.

That said, I'm voting for him. Just doing my civic duty in pushing this country to the brink so hopefully in my lifetime we can start over.

I have a problem with Obama's relationship with Jeremiah Wright, who has been the pastor of his church for the past 20 years, a church which is solely for Blacks and promotes African things above all else. Wright is also a strong proponent and supporter of Louis Farrakhan.

His social mentor is racist and believes in segregation. This fact will come out and if he wants to represent all of America, he shouldn't have spent the last 20 years in an African militant church in Illinois.

I think Wright and Farrakhan will help to ensure the biggest landslide in November for the GOP, in what should have been an easy DNC win this year.

Minrott wrote:

Narrock wrote:He is not a good man. He has bad intentions for this country, despite the propaganda he posts on his website. I'm not buying in to his bullshit.

MINROTT'S RESPONSE SNIPPED!

see, while i may disagree with some of minrott's stances, i respect his thoughtfulness and elaboration.

"i don't like obama because he's baaad and hates his country!" is not the statement of an informed voter.

Minrott wrote:

Gypsiyee wrote:

Narrock wrote:I'd rather see the Hildebeast in office than Obama. He is not a good man. He has bad intentions for this country, despite the propaganda he posts on his website. I'm not buying in to his bullshit.

I just would like to know why you think hes a bad man. why you feel he has bad intentions and what you think his intentions are. He and Hillary have quite a few very similar views; what is it that you feel makes her less of a 'bad person'?

I mean it's curiosity for curiosity's sake. Certainly, aside from the representation you've shown in this thread, you have reasons for thinking these things other than media and opponent portrayal.

I'll play.

Voted against banning partial birth abortion. (Oct 2007) I'm pro choice. In fact I'm pro abortion. More abortions means less liberals in the future. But I find partial birth abortion to be an abhorrent practice that should be banned. If you can't make your mind up in 6 months, grab your knickers and finish the ride.

Constitution is a living document; no strict constructionism. (Oct 2006) The Constitution is not a living document. While I may concede that there are occasions for amendments, the liberal definition of "living document" means restricting the rights of many to attempt and protect a few. This is against my core beliefs.

Regulate financial instruments to protect home mortgages. (Aug 2007) Otherwise known as "bail outs." I'm sorry you're losing your home Francis, but when you speculated that you could afford a $250,000 ARM based on your $30,000 a year combined income, you lost. It's not my fault, and I don't want to pay for your mistake.

Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998) As above, it's not a living document. It says, shall not be infringed. I am not a criminal for possession of an item. More infringements do not equal less crime.

Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005) Gun manufacturers are only as responsible for what is done with their product as Ford or Microsoft is. If I beat someone to death with my Creative Zen Touch, is the family of the victim going to sue Creative labs for making their MP3 player heavy duty enough to smite someone with?

Voted with Democratic Party 96.0% of 251 votes. (Sep 2007) Looks to me like he's a party man, not his own man. I don't have a lot of faith in any Dem or Rep that goes with the flow all the time. In fact, it's my belief that's why we have so much shit legislation to begin with.

Estate tax only affects the wealthiest 1/2 of 1%. (Oct 2006); Voted NO on permanently repealing the `death tax`. (Jun 2006) I don't care who it effects. It's their money, they earned it, they earned the right to pass it on.

Surge strategy has made a difference in Iraq but failed. (Nov 2007) ORLY?

Would like to limit management compensation to 50 times the lowest-paid full-time worker. 50 times is a lot huh? So if I start a company from scratch, and break my balls turning it into a profitable enterprise, took all the risk myself, now you're going to limit the profits I'm allowed to draw from it based on what my janitors make?


It's pretty clear to me that Obama leans hard left. Is he Che? No. But his ideas clash harshly with my ideology. Every little peck of "change" he wants to make, will harm this country either economically, or civilly. Steal my rights under the guise of protecting others. Steal my money to give to those who have not earned it.

That said, I'm voting for him. Just doing my civic duty in pushing this country to the brink so hopefully in my lifetime we can start over.

Iraq withdrawal >

Clarify, as I've been away and don't know your general position on things. Do you mean to say that Obama's position on Iraq withdrawal is the greatest reason you like or dislike him?

Lyion wrote:

Lueyen wrote:
What you are missing is that he was wearing one on a daily basis and then stopped, and my previous statement summarized the reason he gave for doing so.

Reality is in order to get elected and make it through the primary process, one needs to appeal to the base and wings of the party. It's pretty widely understood Obama quit wearing the lapel pin once he had decided to run for President.

One can't fault a politician for playing political games, especially in anticipation of campaigning. In this case it might have worked for Obama, as he is riding the coattails of the liberals into the general election in large part based on perception.

The following was found in my Uncles house after his death a few years ago.. it appeared to have been something he just jotted down, and to the best of my knowledge never shared it with anyone. My Uncle only came in second to my dad in the list of people I admired and respected most while growing up, and still do to this day.

It was there in first grade, hanging high upon the wall.
It was there in high school, just dressing in the hall.
It must have always been there, but I never really saw It.
It must have always been there and though I didn’t know it, It meant so much to me.

It was the there at the State Department, being walked on by a mob.
It was out there by the building, when I went to get a job.
It must have always been there, It is my history.
It must have always been there, I wish now I had seen It.

It was there in San Antonio, when I became a man.
It was there at the airport, as I left for Vietnam.
It must have always been there, I always knew I had It.
It must have always been there, now I am Its caretaker and I can barely see it.

It was there in Vietnam, when I went to do my duty.
It was there in Saigon, when I found the U. S. press was screwy.
It must have always been there, then I finally saw It from the wrong side of the wire.
It must have always been there, now I know all that It means.

It was there in Seattle, as I stepped off the plane.
It was there in Denver, as I got back to my domain.
It must have always been there, I had to lose It’s safety to know just what It was.
It must have always been there, some will never see It or know just what It is.

Our flag has always been there, I hope we never lose It.

Positions on issues are what I base my opinion's of candidates on the majority of the time. I could care less about the picture of him in a turbine. I don't care that his middle name is Hussein. I know he's not a Muslim, and even if he was that in and of it's self wouldn't bother me a bit. The picture without his hand over his heart is a moment in time that doesn't show the moment after and doesn't tell the whole story. I see all of these things as political mudslinging and due to that give them proper weight (which is to say absolutely none). The pin issue however bothers me, not the action or lack there of, but because of the explanation. If it were any other job that he was applying for besides commander in chief, I wouldn't give it so much weight, but I feel that he either doesn't have the first clue about what the flag of my country represents or rejects what it stands for and is therefore completely unqualified to hold the office.

If tomorrow I found myself tearing down the government of this country because it no longer served the will and interest of it's people, I would still not view the American flag as a mere symbol to be tossed aside because the current state of the nation was not one of my liking, or because I felt others were using it in a superficial manner. I would display it proudly because of what it represents to me.

brinstar wrote:

Minrott wrote:

Narrock wrote:He is not a good man. He has bad intentions for this country, despite the propaganda he posts on his website. I'm not buying in to his bullshit.

MINROTT'S RESPONSE SNIPPED!

see, while i may disagree with some of minrott's stances, i respect his thoughtfulness and elaboration.

"i don't like obama because he's baaad and hates his country!" is not the statement of an informed voter.

I'm going to echo this~

That said though, I'm a little sad you just gave Mindia one little post to quote and paste, when his dislike wasn't based on any of those things and he had no backing for his dislike other than because the GOP told me to.

I also pretty much agree with Minrott. thou Min more abortions = less conservatives (which is what this country needs right now.) Abortion is a moral issue and should be treated as such with out interference.

and we DEFINATLEY need to get out of Iraq as fast as possible.

Minrott wrote:Clarify, as I've been away and don't know your general position on things. Do you mean to say that Obama's position on Iraq withdrawal is the greatest reason you like or dislike him?

People seem to argue over reason X why we shouldn't vote for candidate A. Or we should vote for candidate B because of reason Y.

If I have a choice between candidate A who is inline with every view I have, but wants to stay in the Iraq war and candidate B who is out of view with everything I believe, but also wants immediate Iraq withdrawal, I will vote for candidate B every single time.

Iraq towers over every single other issue on the table.

I see.

Not me.

Evermore wrote:I also pretty much agree with Minrott. thou Min more abortions = less conservatives (which is what this country needs right now.) Abortion is a moral issue and should be treated as such with out interference.

and we DEFINATLEY need to get out of Iraq as fast as possible.

You really think the 'conservatives' are the only ones having abortions?

Martrae wrote:

Evermore wrote:I also pretty much agree with Minrott. thou Min more abortions = less conservatives (which is what this country needs right now.) Abortion is a moral issue and should be treated as such with out interference.

and we DEFINATLEY need to get out of Iraq as fast as possible.

You really think the 'conservatives' are the only ones having abortions?

didnt say that.

Lueyen wrote:Positions on issues are what I base my opinion's of candidates on the majority of the time. I could care less about the picture of him in a turbine. I don't care that his middle name is Hussein. I know he's not a Muslim, and even if he was that in and of it's self wouldn't bother me a bit. The picture without his hand over his heart is a moment in time that doesn't show the moment after and doesn't tell the whole story. I see all of these things as political mudslinging and due to that give them proper weight (which is to say absolutely none). The pin issue however bothers me, not the action or lack there of, but because of the explanation. If it were any other job that he was applying for besides commander in chief, I wouldn't give it so much weight, but I feel that he either doesn't have the first clue about what the flag of my country represents or rejects what it stands for and is therefore completely unqualified to hold the office.

I feel his explanation is merely a byproduct of the truth that he wishes to differentiate himself from the GOP, and merely a political ploy to appeal to the DNC base which by and large see patriotism and unity in a different light.

His explanation is framed in a larger political context. The lapel pin represents the GOP <wrongly>, but there it is. He cannot be allied to them in this 'war' that the DNC is waging.

I have many issues with Obama, but the lapel pin one to me is a molehill compared to the real mountains.