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Martrae wrote:Those still qualify under selfishness to me. They just try and put a 'responsible' spin on it when what they really mean is they can't face the thought of raising a kid alone. Which, IMO, they should have thought about before they took off their pants. But, there again, they selfishly wanted to have sex so took the risk anyway.

Honestly, lack of forethought is our country's worst problem. Why save up money for something you want when you can just toss it on a credit card? Why worry about pregnancy when you can just abort? Me Me Me should be our national motto.

Why are you concerned with what people do in their personal lives? I really don’t think things are as bad as you say they are. You seem to me like a pessimistic person who likes to dwell on people’s negative side to reassure yourself. Look how horrible everyone else is, I’m not THAT bad in comparison.

You do realize the implication of carrying a baby to term and delivering it? I’m guessing you’ve done it a few times. It’s completely insane to think that every kid who’s fucking and happens to find themselves on the bad side of a statistical anomaly should ruin their body, ruin their lives, and put themselves in danger, all because of YOUR sense of morality. How arrogant is that?

I was just stating how I view most people who have abortions. Nowhere did I state I was right and everyone had to follow my rules about it. I'm pretty sure the part where I said it was my opinion was fairly plain.

Your point about 'every kid that's fucking' just proves what I said, though. If they aren't ready for the consequences then they shouldn't be doing it. But they're selfish and have been raised in a society where the prevailing mindset is "do/buy what you want and pay for it later".

You assume that everyone that fucks is doing it for themselves, and that isn't the case.

I would bet that alot of girls still, even today, fall under the spell of, "if you loved me you'd fuck me", or "you're still a virgin, WTF, get laid already", etc etc.

You also assume that everyone is knowledgeable and someone already posted that even adults don't always know how you get pregnant or at least think things like a duche or jumping up and down to knock the sperm out, is "enough" to stop it.

You seem to assume that 50% of this country is half as smart as you, and that just ain't da troof.

Even the idiots that post here (j/k guys) still fall under the minority of the overall "smart factor" (e.g. everyone that posts here IMO (yeah even midia) is smarter than your average joe).

How many book smart folks do you know that aren't street smart?

In this case I think a few of the pro-life folks make assumptions that because they know how it all works, that everyone should at least have a clue, but the fact is, there are a TON of clueless folks.

Martrae wrote:Your point about 'every kid that's fucking' just proves what I said, though. If they aren't ready for the consequences then they shouldn't be doing it. But they're selfish and have been raised in a society where the prevailing mindset is "do/buy what you want and pay for it later".

Ugh you society is crumbling folk are the biggest dullards. Since the invention of whining people have been complaining about the decline of society. News flash, it’s you, not the rest of the world. You can see what ever you want in other people. If you want to see the world has an unmoral decay of selfish, thoughtless sheep, then by all means do it, but that’s not exactly how I see it.

I think most kids are ready for the consequences of fucking. The consequence is a trip to the doctors and a quick operation. One that won’t leave them permanently changed like the alternative.

I suppose you’ve like everyone to remain abstinent like the Amish you love so much, but that’s simply not being realistic. I’m sure you weren’t. I’m sure Kahar wasn’t. But now that you’re older and you’re in a position to judge others, judge you fall!

Live and let live, and if people want to remove some clump of cells along the way, go for it. Shed some tears for the sperms dripping down shower walls all over the world today. It’s just as logical.

when i wake up in the morning i eat breakfast, take care of my responsibilities, and start having fun. i'm seriously glad i don't lose sleep or waste time thinking about stuff that i'll never affect. i'd like to think that if i actually cared about abortion, i'd take the initiative to do something about whatever i'd want changed rather than bitch endlessly for years to friends, co-workers, message boards, etc. but as it stands, i could not care less. there are so many more important things in life than a random girl that i've never met wanting to abort her baby that she probably wouldn't be able to support

i have no idea on earth why you people care about abortion so much. if you make it illegal people will do it with coathangers and injure themselves in the process. you can't stop it. why bother? it'd be the same as banning alcohol: wouldn't work, after so many ER visits from girls sticking a wire down their vag because they couldn't go to a doctor about it, they'd reinstate it to incredible public dismay

this topic is such a dead horse. nobody's ever gonna see eye-to-eye on it and it shouldn't be an issue anywhere near the size it's become today

edit: i agree with zanchief's post 100%

shed a tear for the load i blew because i must've killed like 1,000,000 little people when i wiped it off this girl's ass last night

god i hate this topic so much

Drem, I said that like 3 pages ago LOL, I even used alcohol in my example

oh whoops, i didn't delve into the other pages. sorry mein freund

You guys crack me up.....you totally put your own interpretations on what I said but whatever.

The conversation sparked a thought in me and I verbalized it. I hardly spent days or even hours concerned about it and I'm not about to waste anymore time trying to defend it, because, frankly, the entire abortion debate bores me. Abortion is here and not likely to go away and that's the end of it as far as I'm concerned. If I think people who have abortions are selfish, why do you guys care? I'm not forcing that opinion on anyone else nor am I pushing for legislation based on it.

And that's my last post about it.

Sorry Mart, I didn't mean to spin what you said, you have every right to your opinion, I'm sure selfishness is part of it, but you've got to throw fear and stupidity in there too.

Drem wrote:i have no idea on earth why you people care about abortion so much. if you make it illegal people will do it with coathangers and injure themselves in the process. you can't stop it. why bother? it'd be the same as banning alcohol: wouldn't work, after so many ER visits from girls sticking a wire down their vag because they couldn't go to a doctor about it, they'd reinstate it to incredible public dismay

It’s an election tool. Of course it’s unrealistic to actual make abortions illegal, but the judgementals can spend the next two months talking about baby killers and what not, and all the zombies hit the boards outraged about the immoral liberals and help elect another hypocrite who will do nothing on the subject. Everyone get’s to pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

Think of the children!

Drem wrote:shed a tear for the load i blew because i must've killed like 1,000,000 little people when i wiped it off this girl's ass last night

lol

Martrae wrote:And that's my last post about it.

Ah common, lower yourself to our level!

Eziekial wrote:Lue, even routine abortions carry risks to the mother:

I'm aware of that, the difference though is that the survival of the baby would become a goal as well, and any procedure of this nature is going to offer a far greater risk to the baby then to the mother. Cost would be a huge factor, because of the number of abortions done for monetary concerns, you wouldn't want to have a procedure that was markedly different cost wise. That means using similar methods, which do not lend themselves well to preservation of the baby. What you are really talking about with the incubation concept is early term abortions, which are generally done either using vacuum aspiration or a D&E procedure. Both of these extract the baby in pieces, not intact, and while I might view that with horror, I'm under no illusion that it's done for a purpose to simply be barbaric. The reason behind this is that there is much less involved in dilation, and likely much less stress placed on the woman. Moving toward extracting the baby intact would complicate the procedure, and even if it was possible to incubate the baby, and the cost of it having already been mentioned, I was pointing out that it is even more issues that would need to be addressed even previous to that.

Eziekial wrote:Costs are an issue and I would be curious to see how pro-lifers would feel about footing the bill for a transfer over a traditional abortion. Anyone with strong religious views want to comment? I would really like to hear their position on such a procedure.

My thoughts on this... there is absent this procedure still avenues for financial help that would prevent abortions that are not taken, and instead money goes toward fighting to restrict or outlaw them. Groups like the NRL could work toward establishing programs to help deflate or even remove the costs for women who are not concerned with carrying the baby to term, but with the financial impact of pregnancy and birth. Still there are arrangements like this that do exist, although mostly in the form of wealthier couples looking to adopt and willing to pay the hospital bills, but they are by no means main stream. The lack of attention to this might very well be an indicator of just how willing or more aptly unwilling groups or individuals are to pursue this route. That being said I'm far more likely to donate to an organization that focuses on something with a direct result of this nature because it in my eyes would do more good in the short term. I know Italy was wrestling with a similar issue, although it was more of a proposal to pay women not to abort.. I'm not in favor of that kind of concept although I'm very receptive to the idea of non governmental organizations looking to get involved in aiding in medical bills and eventual adoption. I don't want to see government involving it's self with tax payer dollars, for the same reasons I wouldn't want to see government funding abortions. What need to happen in regards to this is society needs to step up of it's own volition, not due to being forced or pushed into by government.

late term abortions when the womans life in danger is a very lame argument to make

check the stats this advent never occurs in the real world and in order to have a late term abortion you much induce a breach birth thereby putting womans life in danger..... instant loophole

I might be the exception to this then... because I've known 3 people who had "abortions." One of them was too young and irresponsible and didn't love the father, so she aborted in the first trimester. The other two were different cases.

One of my closest friends was married and already had a healthy 6 year old son. When she discovered she was pregnant, it was a complicated situation but both she and the father were happy to welcome another child. However, she had a blood disorder that made pregnancy a very tricky endeavor. Around the 25-26th week, she was bleeding constantly and had to 'live' in the hospital. The doctors told her that she could die from hemorrhaging if she wasn't under constant supervision. Even still, she wanted to keep the baby. A couple of days after she was admitted, she began bleeding uncontrollably and they had to induce the 'no-way-this-baby-can-survive' child (ie, abort). Breach delivery, baby lived for about 20 seconds...

Second was a family member... same situation, married and intended on keeping this 'wanted' baby. About 6.5 months into the pregnancy, there was some seriously wrong shit with the uterine wall and umbilical system and she was 'also' admitted to control the bleeding and learned that the problems with the baby were going to kill her. They had no choice but to induce labor on this 'impossible' situation. Baby is born, lived a few minutes but basically had 'jello' for lungs. No chance of survival. Additionally, the mother was so fucked up from the experience, she had to remain in the hospital for nearly 2 weeks to recover.

I'm sure I've had lapdances from strippers who have had 3 abortions... and maybe a couple of girls I've known have had one and I never knew... But of the 3 confirmed cases that I am aware of - two of them were late term terminations. Sooo... from personal experience, I'd say it's a hell of a lot more common than the 'stats' might lead you to believe.