namelesstavern.net

It's the numerical sign people put in front of words on twitter so you can search better. The OWS folks (because they grew on twitter) use it in their name (re: Brins posts). I think it's silly. Drem thinks it's cool, likely because he's queer.

i don't mind when people use hashtags on twitter because obviously it serves a purpose there... but i do get kind of annoyed when they show up outside of twitter.

brinstar wrote:kill your apathy, switch on your brain. i know it works when you let it. shit man, if not for you then for the bun cooking in your GF's oven~

fifteen years from now when s/he comes to you with starry eyes and says "dad, we learned about #occupy in school today. is it really true that rich people used to own the government? did you help change that?" i sincerely fucking hope you have a better answer than "meh, i thought the whole thing was dumb so i just sat around playing battlefield 3 and listening to metalcore"

No, it will be: "I was too busy working 2 jobs(and other sidework when possible) and supporting your mother when she couldn't work, to care about the millenia-old "have and have-not class warfare" cryfest. I did something, for us."

I just don't give a flying fuck who is in power because at the end of the day, it's me and my actions that affect my life.

Would I flick a switch to fix it? Sure. Would I take time out of my life and waste it protesting? Fuck no. I have more important shit to do than cry about it.

Harrison wrote:it's me and my actions that affect my life

obv not gonna change your mind about the rest, which is sad

but this part is just straight-up wrong

you're not living on an island dude

Harrison wrote:it's me and my actions that affect my life

this part I actually agree with!

araby wrote:

Harrison wrote:it's me and my actions that affect my life

this part I actually agree with!

I hope you can both be singing the same tune when, in 10-20+ years after you've done everything you thought was right, your world gets ripped out from underneath you, and you learn just how expendable you are.

Then again, I understand most people don't care that everyone isn't just like them - perfect.

So glad to see everything I speculated about this board regarding OWS was spot on. Sadness.

.

You fail at humor.

brinstar wrote:

Harrison wrote:it's me and my actions that affect my life

obv not gonna change your mind about the rest, which is sad

but this part is just straight-up wrong

you're not living on an island dude

Occupiers aren't lined up outside of Harrison's place waiting to pay his bills either. He has shit to do and is working instead of protesting. I don't see what is so wrong about this.

Trielelvan wrote:I hope you can both be singing the same tune when, in 10-20+ years after you've done everything you thought was right, your world gets ripped out from underneath you, and you learn just how expendable you are.

Then again, I understand most people don't care that everyone isn't just like them - perfect.

So glad to see everything I speculated about this board regarding OWS was spot on. Sadness.

I'm not quite getting this whole "if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem" mentality. People have personal responsibilities, shit to do, daily lives etc etc. Suddenly if you'd rather go to work over standing in the middle of the streets with the rest of the mob you don't care that people aren't like you? That sounds to me like some horseshit angry mob mentality. I've written letters to city council, I call them, I talk to local politicians, I vote, and I removed most of my money from banks and have them in non profit credit unions. Half of that I did before I knew anything about the occupy movement. I bet the occupiers feel really special and feel like they're making a huge difference but truth of the matter is if they'd moderated their time and practiced civil responsibility before it had gotten this bad, they wouldn't have to be occupying anything. Write letters, emails, call congressmen and women, get your viewpoints out, etc etc. Of course, we're all too busy to do that shit but when a giant mob makes it as simple as "HEY JUST SHOW UP, STAND THERE AND BE MADBRO" then everyone is "doing their part" and anyone not there is "contributing to the problem". You can accuse me of not caring but I'm willing to wager that I've done just as much if not more than your average occupier, from the seat at my desk, without contributing to traffic, or obstructing any local commerce and have still made enough time to take care of my personal responsibilities as well.

Ouch...

I think that's what separates the Occupy movement and people who are actually interested in change. It seems like most protest movements are just a part of this culture of anarchy and have no vision or idea how the real world works. They're angry at things that they don't have much understanding of, and don't know how to do anything about it, which probably just angers them more.

People don't take them seriously (who would) so they then feel they're being marginalized and persecuted. The entire thing just feeds itself. No worries, I'm sure there's a G8/G20 summit around the corner that will occupy their time for a while.

Excellent points Jay and Zan!

brinstar wrote:

Harrison wrote:it's me and my actions that affect my life

obv not gonna change your mind about the rest, which is sad

but this part is just straight-up wrong

you're not living on an island dude

gotta get on board with josh here. and jay. we're too busy working to go protest about nonsense. the occupiers here in eugene occupied the mall on black friday to tell people to not spend their money. that's so ridiculous to me. beyond ridiculous. now they're telling people how to spend their money. i thought this was about banks

i know i just said in the other thread that i don't buy a lot, but i have no problem with other people doing it. in fact i don't really care much at all about what other people do until they try to bring it into my life and tell me that's the way to be. the occupy movement makes zero sense to me and can't be correlated to the vietnam protests in any way, which a lot of people, including my own dad, have tried to do

those actually made sense and accomplished something

this silly shit that's going on right now won't. ever

the country revolves around the vote. i'd love to see statistics on how many #occupiers don't vote or voted for things they're protesting

and not to sound like a total dick about it, but most of the occupiers here in eugene are heroin addicts and homeless people or just stupid hipster kids. most of the things they've been saying and doing are closer to promoting communism than anything else. they want all this shit given to them when all they do is fuck up the central park and not work or contribute to society in any way

my favorite side effect of all this nonsense tho? the girls at the bars wearing "occupy my pants. do something useful" signs

holy christ the derp on this page is astounding


1. okay first off, the INSANELY CLEVER PHOTO MINDIA PULLED FROM SOME HILARIOUS WEBSITE. let me be perfectly clear: at no point have any of the real thinkers that drive Occupy (doing zanchief a favour here and eschewing hashtags) made any sort of statement about companies making products for people to buy. only maybe the extreme fringes of the movement have a serious problem with capitalism as a basic concept, and let me tell you - we take those folks about as seriously as you do. no one hates cars, no one hates cell phones, no one hates video cameras, no one hates coffee, no one fucking hates shirts. these are things made to serve a purpose. hell, we never would have seen this level of success if not for things - cell phones and the internet for communication, video cameras to capture police brutality, tents to keep warm, etc. it amazes me that anyone could possibly believe the hypocrisy so delicately implied by the oh-so-canny image macro above has any power to discredit a movement that quite plainly has nothing whatsoever to do with actual products. it is, and always has been, about the abject greed of those perched at the top of financial and corporate empires, and their use of vast economic power to leverage policy in their favor. if "durr hurr you're using ipods" is the best argument haters can muster, i'd call that a win.

1.5. and vonk, i don't know much about einstein's political leanings (aside from wanting a palestine at least mostly free of israeli rule) but i do know he was actually agnostic, not atheist. +1 for effort though

2. to jay: fair enough, man. it is clear to me that you are not "part of the problem" if, as you say, you're writing letters, talking to and keeping an eye on your government representatives, and voting with a full understanding of the issues. despite your lingering disapproval of Occupy people and tactics, you're already doing pretty much exactly what we would like everyone in America to do.

but more to the point, i don't really get why it's an either/or thing - like, OPTION A: i can go to work and be productive, OR OPTION B: i can yell and carry a sign around and cook up ideas on how to undermine our corporate oligarchy. dude(s), i work 60 hours a week and sleep about 40, and the remaining time is spent devouring as much news and knowledge as i can bear, following pipeline stuff like a hawk, marching through downtown lincoln, talking to random strangers about the Occupy movement, hearing and sharing opinions at our general assembly meetings, and composing/editing our weekly newsletter (which i do completely by myself, despite tons of offers for help lol), and yes, even arguing with you goons. i work a shit ton and am often worn out when i get home, but the fire in my heart does not let me just shut down and watch whatever brainless reality show substitutes for entertainment these days. so i don't get where this "lol w/e dude we're too busy being adults to go stomping around being madbro" keeps coming from? i'd say about 80% of Occupy Lincoln protesters are employed full time or at least go to college full time (and that's not even counting our Retiree Squad), yet here we are week after week devoting our free time shouting for what's fucking right.

3. zanchief: it's sad to me that you're so dismissive of something you should be behind, at least in theory. criticize us for misdirected tactics, fine, or suggest more relevant goals - but calling us loud fools is just phoning it in. besides, plenty of people in power are taking us quite seriously >_>

4. mindia put your pom poms down, you know what we're doing is right. even if you don't like how it's being done or who's actually doing it. you could at least find comfort in the fact we're yelling at Dems too (did you see last week when Obama got "mic checked" at a jobs stump in NH?)

5. drem, see my above comments about "too busy working." as for the black friday actions taken by many Occupy chapters, i personally felt they were a tad half-baked, which is why i didn't participate. their hearts are in the right place - trying to stem the tide of consumerist frenzy - but IMHO by the time those shoppers get to the mall the battle's already been lost. educate them beforehand, try to get them to understand how they're being played and suckered into lusting after things*, and show them alternatives, these are all good tactics. once they're out for a midnight sale, though, there's no plausible way to keep them from clicking that button for their crumb of cheese.

oh yeah, and i actually laughed out loud when you said Occupy makes zero sense. really? zero? i think you're literally the only person ITT who can't at least grasp the basic concept. plenty of haters buzzing around, yeah, but at least they remotely get it. wth man? read the god damn thread. or better yet, i'll sum it up in five words: RICH PEOPLE OWN THE GOVERNMENT.





fake edit:

*and lest anyone get all uppity and say something like "herp derp, i thought you didn't have anything against things, herp a derp murf burf" let me refer you to an often-misquoted bible verse:

1 Timothy 6:10 (KJV) wrote:For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

big difference those bolded words make, non? i read a tweet the other day that said "only in america can we set a day aside to be thankful for what we have and then later that night rush out to get more"

brinstar wrote:3. zanchief: it's sad to me that you're so dismissive of something you should be behind, at least in theory. criticize us for misdirected tactics, fine, or suggest more relevant goals - but calling us loud fools is just phoning it in. besides, plenty of people in power are taking us quite seriously >_>

You know, I gave this very question a lot of thought a few days ago as I was read FB comments by a number of my friends about OCW. These are people that, in most circumstances, I find myself in complete agreement with. So what specifically is at the root of my dissent in this instance? It can’t simply be that they are directionless. Hell, almost all the liberals I’ve aligned myself over the years are, at best, directionless. So why do I have such a hard time getting behind this movement?

I have narrowed it down to two reasons. One I think is rational, and one is irrational. I’ll start with the irrational. I don’t see this movement being fought by the right people. If this outcry was from single mothers trying to raise their children on a paltry income, unable to break the cycle of poverty imposed by the widening divide in classes, or families in inner city slums who’ve been the victim of systemic issues that have negatively contributed to their quality of life, I’d be right there with you. I’d wager you are fighting for these people, Brin, but that’s not what I see when I see the majority of these protesters. I see children of upper middle class families who have had every opportunity to succeed and they are taking the success that so many have never had and wasting it by playing campout with their friends. I see them on TV and read about them in the newspapers and these are not people I can bring myself to support. They’re losers. And they only have themselves to blame.

Rational. I think the claims are highly exaggerated. I know you Brin, and I know you educate yourself the best you can, but you can get caught up in the rhetoric just like everyone else. You want to believe so much in the conspiracy of the big business man controlling everything, with Washington full of corrupt politicians taking any kind of hand out. This I do not believe. There may be some like this, but most politicians do the best they can under the system they have. You look for news that affirms your world view so you can feed that fire in your belly. You want to justify the things that you do, but the world isn’t always as bleak as you make it out to be. Well not from my point of view at least.

The first reason is why I make snide comments about hashtags and iPods and what not, the second is why it’s just not for me.

Lol calm down Alex. I came across that picture and my first reaction was to laugh out loud. Although it is ridiculous there is a smidgeon of truth to it, and to NOT laugh at it makes you an uptight something or other. Don't be so defensive... laugh a little. :p

Zanchief wrote:

brinstar wrote:3. zanchief: it's sad to me that you're so dismissive of something you should be behind, at least in theory. criticize us for misdirected tactics, fine, or suggest more relevant goals - but calling us loud fools is just phoning it in. besides, plenty of people in power are taking us quite seriously >_>

You know, I gave this very question a lot of thought a few days ago as I was read FB comments by a number of my friends about OCW. These are people that, in most circumstances, I find myself in complete agreement with. So what specifically is at the root of my dissent in this instance? It can’t simply be that they are directionless. Hell, almost all the liberals I’ve aligned myself over the years are, at best, directionless. So why do I have such a hard time getting behind this movement?

I have narrowed it down to two reasons. One I think is rational, and one is irrational. I’ll start with the irrational. I don’t see this movement being fought by the right people. If this outcry was from single mothers trying to raise their children on a paltry income, unable to break the cycle of poverty imposed by the widening divide in classes, or families in inner city slums who’ve been the victim of systemic issues that have negatively contributed to their quality of life, I’d be right there with you. I’d wager you are fighting for these people, Brin, but that’s not what I see when I see the majority of these protesters. I see children of upper middle class families who have had every opportunity to succeed and they are taking the success that so many have never had and wasting it by playing campout with their friends. I see them on TV and read about them in the newspapers and these are not people I can bring myself to support. They’re losers. And they only have themselves to blame.

Rational. I think the claims are highly exaggerated. I know you Brin, and I know you educate yourself the best you can, but you can get caught up in the rhetoric just like everyone else. You want to believe so much in the conspiracy of the big business man controlling everything, with Washington full of corrupt politicians taking any kind of hand out. This I do not believe. There may be some like this, but most politicians do the best they can under the system they have. You look for news that affirms your world view so you can feed that fire in your belly. You want to justify the things that you do, but the world isn’t always as bleak as you make it out to be. Well not from my point of view at least.

The first reason is why I make snide comments about hashtags and iPods and what not, the second is why it’s just not for me.

alright, well thanks for at least taking the time to lay it all out (and thanks for the cred). i guess at this point only remaining thing i would add is that those you see actually out stomping the streets are only the face of the movement, for better or worse. more specifically, we may only have about 30 campers here at Occupy Lincoln, but there are hundreds of people who swing by and drop off blankets, giant pots of fresh deer chili, jugs of water, propane tanks, or just plain cash. every one of them says the same thing - "i wish i could do more." THOSE are your single moms, downtrodden folks scraping by on EBT, families who just can't afford to send their kid to college. hell, we get a group of kids who get free lunch at the elementary schools show up for the saturday potluck every weekend, and if it weren't for the food our supporters bring those kids wouldn't eat until monday.

i'm not saying there aren't whiny hipsters involved, i'm not saying there aren't privileged white kids looking for a thrill, and i'm not saying there isn't a fringe of loons with big mainstream media targets painted on their backs. it's frustrating to try to include them, as i'm sure you can imagine, but to judge the entire movement - not just those of us with brains AND hearts, but those from the community who support us as much as they are able - based on those goons is a bit disingenuous, and undermines the very reason it has caught on so quickly and widely.

*sigh*

Let me try to put this into the proper perspective for a moment:

Jay, you say that Harri, you, and most people most likely, are too busy with work, family, lives, etc to go and occupy.
Correct. Most people are very busy. If we didn't stay that way, our lives, as we know it now, would start to become unstable.

No one is expecting you or anyone to go out and make time to go and occupy anywhere. It'd be really great if you could, but it goes without saying that most people are not going to be able to do this.

But enough can and do.
Why does it matter if they do?

To say that this country is drowning in apathy and passive/aggressive frustration is an enormous understatement.
So why then has no one done anything about it? There are some who do, obviously, but not the majority of Americans.
Why?
When it's so painfully obvious that change is needed, why do people do nothing?

Hope.

This country has no sense of itself.
We have become apathetic as a nation, secure in the bubble of a very uncomfortable comfort-zone that the very idea of doing anything at all to make any kind of change seems not only impossible, but completely improbable.

How can hope thrive when the obstacles are so overwhelming as to be crippling?

The people of this country - of this world - have forgotten that they have a voice; A RIGHT to speak out against atrocity.

The idea of breaking the silence is so frightening for some that they'd rather just continue living in poverty, living paycheck to paycheck, living without healthcare, living without knowing what will happen when they become too old to work anymore...
"Let things be the way they are and don't rock the boat."
"It's not worth it."
"Anyone who tries is a fool."

The Women's Suffrage and Civil Rights movements prove those ideas to be dead wrong.

The occupiers are important because they are the visual representation of this movement for people everywhere to see that they are not alone in their anger and suffering; their hopelessness and frustration.
That's why it matters that they DO occupy.

If you really don't believe that the politicians of our nation are bought and paid for (on BOTH sides - Obama is just as much a corporate puppet as was Bush, et al), you haven't been doing your homework.

If you truly think that the vast majority of the people out there occupying are nothing more than dirty hippies looking for a free handout, you haven't actually met any of them.

The movement is for us.
For you.
For the people.
For every person who feels that their voice counts for nothing anymore, this is for them.
For every citizen of this country who feels their votes are a waste, this is for them.

The only way the big changes will ever happen is if all the people of this country come together to change it.
It has to start somewhere.
That is what this movement is. That is what OWS is for and why it exists.

People have to know that others will stand with them.
Some are too scared.
Some simply have no idea what is really going on.
That is where OWS comes in: to teach, to inform, to help, to encourage.... to empower.

Confucius said, "The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step."

OWS is the first step.
This is only the beginning of the beginning.

... and with that, I'm done on this subject here. Willful ignorance is around every corner, and my ability to continue to stomach it has been stretched too thin.
I hope something I said helps someone see how important this is.
If so, awesome.
If not *shrug* that's fine too.
You're going to believe what you want. I get that.

you're basically right, i don't think the occupy movement makes any sense. it's just a fad like gluten free. i do think the original occupy wallstreet movement was more to the point but still stupid. especially now that everyone everywhere is doing it? and doing it about things that don't even make sense like telling people how to spend their money on their families during christmas? it's really getting to the point of socialist nonsense

the original message is lost. even here in portland it never made sense. my friends that went up there to partake said it was a shit show. buncha idiots with bullhorns saying different shit. i agree

i mean i'm incredibly sorry, but if some retarded hippy could make a shirt like banana republic i'd be spending my money locally. unfortunately that doesn't happen. i think a lot of money is pooled locally for a variety of things, from music to food to alcohol. maybe eugene is lucky because our local market is booming. but we still have box stores and shit... i don't wanna buy my underwear at the saturday market

and yeah, rich people own the government. in case you weren't aware, they basically own everything. it's kind of the way of the entire world, not just this country, works and grows. so yes, i still think this whole movement is stupid. it's a bunch of people that don't work asking for a slice of the pie they don't even know how to propagate. fuck em

Trielelvan wrote:*sigh*

Let me try to put this into the proper perspective for a moment:

Jay, you say that Harri, you, and most people most likely, are too busy with work, family, lives, etc to go and occupy.
Correct. Most people are very busy. If we didn't stay that way, our lives, as we know it now, would start to become unstable.

No one is expecting you or anyone to go out and make time to go and occupy anywhere. It'd be really great if you could, but it goes without saying that most people are not going to be able to do this.

But enough can and do.
Why does it matter if they do?

To say that this country is drowning in apathy and passive/aggressive frustration is an enormous understatement.
So why then has no one done anything about it? There are some who do, obviously, but not the majority of Americans.
Why?
When it's so painfully obvious that change is needed, why do people do nothing?

Hope.

This country has no sense of itself.
We have become apathetic as a nation, secure in the bubble of a very uncomfortable comfort-zone that the very idea of doing anything at all to make any kind of change seems not only impossible, but completely improbable.

How can hope thrive when the obstacles are so overwhelming as to be crippling?

The people of this country - of this world - have forgotten that they have a voice; A RIGHT to speak out against atrocity.

Oh apathy is the furthest thing from my list of why I disapprove of this movement. Let me go down your list and give you my reasoning behind why I am not with it. Before I say anything though, I will say that I agree with the overall message. I agree that corporate greed has seeped into our government and has too much control. I do think that banks have this country by the nuts and I do think that changes need to be made, however, this is not the way to go about it. There's a second half as to why we're in this predicament in the first place. Personal responsibility and our lack thereof. We put ourselves in this situation in a number of ways. 1) Ignorance. 2) Once we woke up and smelled the hot garbage, we did NOTHING about it. Before these issues became this numbnuts hipster movement guess what? I was begging and pleading with our mayors and Governer, and local officials to support our local businesses. 3 or 4 big box corps in 1 county is enough. I fought and am still fighting that fight day in and day out.

I'm president of 3 chambers of commerce in my county. I'm the guy your local business owner looks at with sad eyes because Target hurt his business enough, but at least he's making enough to get by, and now they're putting another Target in town less than 10 minutes from the other one. I, and our community together, have defended this guy's right to make an honest living for the past 3 years but I can't hold off Target any longer. Ground is broken, and the best I could do was hold them off for as long as I could until their paperwork finally went through despite our efforts. I did however stop Walmart from ever entering our county and have limited several big corporate grocery and drug store chains in favor of our local alternatives. You win some, you lose some, but guess what? You know what else is stifling our local business practice? Occupy. Occupy is halting our businesses, delaying day to day operations with no regard to the local businesses it interrupts with both traffic congestion, population density and the intense use of law enforcement and public resources that the rallies demand from the city. Local businesses have lost money from mid September till now due to the protests. Sections of our county and community are left in worse shape because the public sector is lending their efforts to neighboring communities cleaning up messes left by Occupy.

So yeah, as people, we do have a right to speak up against atrocities created by our government. We do have a right to criticize our government to make it better, but where were the letters, rallies, feedback and outreach before it took a drastic turn into this silly fad movement? They weren't anywhere. People were busy watching TV, living their lives, bitching amongst themselves and simply ignoring all of the problems right in front of their faces instead of practicing their civil responsibilities, keyword: RESPONSIBILITY, and now that people have simplified the process of demanding change into the act of merely taking up space and yelling, we're suddenly all patriots. Meanwhile thousands of arrests, over a hundred injured and a couple of handfuls of deaths later, Occupy is the "right thing to do".

Trielelvan wrote:The idea of breaking the silence is so frightening for some that they'd rather just continue living in poverty, living paycheck to paycheck, living without healthcare, living without knowing what will happen when they become too old to work anymore...
"Let things be the way they are and don't rock the boat."
"It's not worth it."
"Anyone who tries is a fool."

The Women's Suffrage and Civil Rights movements prove those ideas to be dead wrong.

The occupiers are important because they are the visual representation of this movement for people everywhere to see that they are not alone in their anger and suffering; their hopelessness and frustration.
That's why it matters that they DO occupy.

If you really don't believe that the politicians of our nation are bought and paid for (on BOTH sides - Obama is just as much a corporate puppet as was Bush, et al), you haven't been doing your homework.

If you truly think that the vast majority of the people out there occupying are nothing more than dirty hippies looking for a free handout, you haven't actually met any of them.

Protest is right. Criticizing your government is right. Demanding change for the welfare of the common populace is right, but only AFTER YOU'VE EXHAUSTED ALL OTHER OPTIONS. The 99% are what they are because they let themselves get cornered and are now lashing out like animals. That's fine, protest, do your thing, but you're creating a list of victims, even if they are only a small percentage of those involved. The rights of the majority don't forgo the rights of the minority and Occupy is in the way of a lot of honest people who want to simply live their lives and have the same gripes and fight the system the right way. By doing their part, taking time out to address their leaders from the local level on up and voicing their concerns without infringing on anyone else's time or rights.

Women's suffrage? Please. Don't compare a great movement to a silly one. Women's suffrage was an issue for CENTURIES. It had been argued, fought and debated on every single level of government before protests not to mention multiple levels of organization by high profile supporters. The leaders of the multiple US women's suffrage movements were brilliantly organized. They exhausted every single avenue of the fight until finally getting the results. Occupy barely has central organization and only exists today because of the NEGLECT of people letting things get as bad as they are. Comparing the 2 is an embarrassment to women.

Trielelvan wrote:The movement is for us.
For you.
For the people.
For every person who feels that their voice counts for nothing anymore, this is for them.
For every citizen of this country who feels their votes are a waste, this is for them.

The only way the big changes will ever happen is if all the people of this country come together to change it.
It has to start somewhere.
That is what this movement is. That is what OWS is for and why it exists.

People have to know that others will stand with them.
Some are too scared.
Some simply have no idea what is really going on.
That is where OWS comes in: to teach, to inform, to help, to encourage.... to empower.

Confucius said, "The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step."

OWS is the first step.
This is only the beginning of the beginning.

... and with that, I'm done on this subject here. Willful ignorance is around every corner, and my ability to continue to stomach it has been stretched too thin.
I hope something I said helps someone see how important this is.
If so, awesome.
If not *shrug* that's fine too.
You're going to believe what you want. I get that.

So OWS is gonna eliminate the electoral college, grow testicles on cowards and pass out bullhorns to the ignorant? Maybe the latter, definitely not the previous. Some are too scared? You're right. That's why we're here. Some have no idea what is really going on? Right again. That's why we're here. That's why there is an Occupy movement. You quoted a great one by Confucius but here's another.

"When you meet someone better than yourself, turn your thoughts to becoming his equal. When you meet someone not as good as you are, look within and examine your own self."

You can blame anyone you want for the problems our country faces, but at the end of the day, you have to ask yourself how much you've done to both contribute to the catastrophe we're in today, and how much you've done or are doing to make it right. I choose to look 1 step further and ask myself what I plan to do to not FURTHER contribute to the mess we're in. End of the day, CEO's, big business types, and bank officials are thinkers. Politicians are thinkers. They thought of a way to enslave you and it worked. Now, you can think your way out of it and take them on 1 issue at a time, 1 step at a time, 1 letter, 1 conversation, 1 phone call and 1 community outreach at a time, or you can lend a talented mind to a muddled mass of unorganized people. The work I do may only be enough to save so many businesses, including my own. I might only be enough to touch 1 community, 1 county, 1 town, but imagine if every town, community, county had a person, or several people who grinded their way past the greed of our leadership and fought for the people around them. Sadly, all you can do is imagine that, because the people that do that kind of work do it at an expense to themselves. The people who could have done the same were busy watching TV, playing video games and buying shit they didn't need on credit when the people around them needed them. Those same people are now standing out in the cold with the rest of the mob chanting the same old tired shit when they should be looking within and looking towards the people nearest to them.

Apathy is not a problem in the world, I see the opposite problem. People see things everywhere. We have people protesting just about everything now days, everyday a new group is telling us why the world is coming to an end and all of them are telling us we need to "open our eyes".

Jay wrote:You win some, you lose some, but guess what? You know what else is stifling our local business practice? Occupy. Occupy is halting our businesses, delaying day to day operations with no regard to the local businesses it interrupts with both traffic congestion, population density and the intense use of law enforcement and public resources that the rallies demand from the city. Local businesses have lost money from mid September till now due to the protests. Sections of our county and community are left in worse shape because the public sector is lending their efforts to neighboring communities cleaning up messes left by Occupy

so true. "occupy eugene" is a woodstock type hippy tent commune in the middle of one of our main public parks. not only is it really just a haven for transients and drug dealers but it's just absolutely fucking ugly to look at when you accidentally drive by it

in portland they're even protesting in front of local bakeries. so many local businesses are losing money because of this nonsense. we're lucky we're not in the midst and business is thriving. mostly with people that are talking shit about all the occupiers

Trielelvan wrote:

araby wrote:

Harrison wrote:it's me and my actions that affect my life

this part I actually agree with!

I hope you can both be singing the same tune when, in 10-20+ years after you've done everything you thought was right, your world gets ripped out from underneath you, and you learn just how expendable you are.

Then again, I understand most people don't care that everyone isn't just like them - perfect.

So glad to see everything I speculated about this board regarding OWS was spot on. Sadness.

I don't understand this at all! Sorry!

All of the occupiers in Charleston got arrested. Their hearing was a couple weeks ago I think. They are not allowed to use the park anymore or something.

Aaaw, that's a damn shame Araby.