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Sure it is, if the druid equips himself like that, he most certainly can.

Donnel wrote:Sure it is, if the druid equips himself like that, he most certainly can.

No, he really can't, unless he chooses to sacrifice any chance he has of winning. It's theoretically possible, but certaintly not practical. The druid relies far too much on his manapool to approach a paladin's physical stats.

Donnel wrote:Okay, I will go along with your pegging of druids to one role.

Druids can use 2H maces. So can pally's so theoretically they could use the "same" weapons.

So at the base level, they are identical in the damage category with just auto attack.

Druid presses moonfire button, then autoattack. Presses moonfire again when it wears off.

Paladin presses Seal of Command button, and then autoattack, hoping for a proc.

Which of these two can control their bursts?

Being the RNG's bitch ftl :/

Way to pidgeonhole every druid into what you think is best.

Havn't you ever heard of carrying more then one set of gear? My wife out damages me constantly when she wants to. "rogue" gear (str/agi) and cat form beats my autoattack and pray any day of the week.

edit:

and she SHOULD outdamge me. I don't mind being the lowest damage class because I have good survivability and can do things she can't even dream of. She however can decide when she wants to spend the Energy/Rage/Mana to convert it directly into damage. I do not have that same luxury.

Thats why you don't have burst dps donnel. Your trade-off is that you have the highest survivability out of any class in the game. Druids are the most versatile so it's kinda dumb to compare the two. ALL *I* have is dps mode.

Donnel wrote:Way to pidgeonhole every druid into what you think is best.

Havn't you ever heard of carrying more then one set of gear? My wife out damages me constantly when she wants to. "rogue" gear (str/agi) and cat form beats my autoattack and pray any day of the week.

Heh, I've been playing druids since you could switch gear mid-fight. Since you can't do that any more, a druid has to wear either balanced gear into a general PvP situation, or stick with caster gear. Cat form for PvP is a spectacular way to generate HKs for the opposition, nothing more. There's literally no class in the game that won't annihilate a cat form druid. Low armor, mediocre DPS, no stun lock, no spell interrupts, no items, no potions, and no healing. It's simply not a factor in PvP.

Dire Bear is still useful, but it's not for DPS. It's simply a way to wear down an enemy and eventually outlast them... you know, exactly the way a Paladin wins.

and she SHOULD outdamge me. I don't mind being the lowest damage class because I have good survivability and can do things she can't even dream of. She however can decide when she wants to spend the Energy/Rage/Mana to convert it directly into damage. I do not have that same luxury.

Neither does she, in PvP.

Well I agree that it is indeed my tradeoff, and as you recall from the thread, I did not bring up the druid comparison.

I'd be very happy if they changed Seal of Command to some kind of Paladin Heroic Strike with a cooldown and made it a class skill as opposed to a talent. That at least would make our combat more entertaining and give us more options in combat.

As it stands with the seal system you can't afford to use any seal BUT command because you need that extra damage to kill stuff. So forget all the other "versatility" we have in our seal system because it can't get used.

Donnel wrote:As it stands with the seal system you can't afford to use any seal BUT command because you need that extra damage to kill stuff. So forget all the other "versatility" we have in our seal system because it can't get used.

And yet, you want to consider the druids' "versatility", even though they can't use it in PvP?

word on the street is that whining your support class can't dps is dumb


if you wanted dps, play a dps class

xaoshaen wrote:

Donnel wrote:Way to pidgeonhole every druid into what you think is best.

Havn't you ever heard of carrying more then one set of gear? My wife out damages me constantly when she wants to. "rogue" gear (str/agi) and cat form beats my autoattack and pray any day of the week.

Heh, I've been playing druids since you could switch gear mid-fight. Since you can't do that any more, a druid has to wear either balanced gear into a general PvP situation, or stick with caster gear. Cat form for PvP is a spectacular way to generate HKs for the opposition, nothing more. There's literally no class in the game that won't annihilate a cat form druid. Low armor, mediocre DPS, no stun lock, no spell interrupts, no items, no potions, and no healing. It's simply not a factor in PvP.

Dire Bear is still useful, but it's not for DPS. It's simply a way to wear down an enemy and eventually outlast them... you know, exactly the way a Paladin wins.

and she SHOULD outdamge me. I don't mind being the lowest damage class because I have good survivability and can do things she can't even dream of. She however can decide when she wants to spend the Energy/Rage/Mana to convert it directly into damage. I do not have that same luxury.

Neither does she, in PvP.

Havn't we already stated that PvP is intended to be group?

All the drawbacks to cat form (which is not mediocre dps) go out the window with a good group behind ya.

Not every druid has to be support. They are a unique specialist. They do three jobs well, but only one at a time, and that's only gonna get better after next patch.

Tikker wrote:word on the street is that whining your support class can't dps is dumb


if you wanted dps, play a dps class

For the record I never said I wanted to be a DPS class. I said I wanted to use the damage available to my class when I decide to use it, not the RNG.

I'm very happy in my support role.

Lyion wrote:http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-pvp&t=294466&p=1&tmp=1#post294466

That's funny stuff. You can pretty much discount anyone's opinion on PvP if they think that totems are particularly important.

Pfft ask people on my server if gear matters more than talent. The horde's rank 14 warrior is a no-talent moron who gets beat by people with blues.

I'm gonna copy this link to Ixt board for drama.

Donnel wrote:Havn't we already stated that PvP is intended to be group?

Even in a group, a druid isn't going to be using cat form for PvP, unless they're stealthing somewhere, usually with a group fo rogues. In the latter case, the druid is using cat form for transit, not DPS.

All the drawbacks to cat form (which is not mediocre dps) go out the window with a good group behind ya.

Let's examine the classes that can outdamage a cat form druid:
- Hunter
- Warlock
- Priest
- Mage
- Rogue
- Warrior
- Shaman can top Cat DPS, but they can also clock in much, much lower. They're the consummate victims of the RNG.

You're right. Cat form DPS isn't mediocre, it's downright subpar. There may be a world where a druid is the focus of a group's support. Once again, however, we find that world to not be Azeroth. A paladin could go pure offense and put up some damn nice DPS numbers, should a group choose to support him doing so. Neither case is particularly realistic, as either class is much more effective playing to their strengths.

Even with group support, cat form can't overcome its limitations: it is, by design, inferior to a rogue in every single way. Lower DPS, less survivability, less utility, still can't use potions or items, still can't stun lock anything, or interrupt spells, plus they've surrendered the druid's greatest strength, the ability to support other classes. Even in a group situation, cat form is a terrific liability.

Not every druid has to be support. They are a unique specialist. They do three jobs well, but only one at a time, and that's only gonna get better after next patch.

They do one job well: heal. They're situationally effective tanks, and they're never particularly good at DPS. A druid is a support class that can fill other roles in a pinch.

Zanchief wrote:I'm gonna copy this link to Ixt board for drama.

LOL true, their e-peens might swell up and invade again...i better watch it ~_~

Agree to disagree then, we see things in different lights, and have different experiences.

All in all, an interesting thread though, and without the typical random flames and bull crap.

(queue random flame and bullcrap now )

Donnel wrote:Agree to disagree then, we see things in different lights, and have different experiences.

All in all, an interesting thread though, and without the typical random flames and bull crap.

(queue random flame and bullcrap now )

Fine, I'll believe the truth, and you can follow the misguided path of the aggressively ignorant, or as we like to call them, Mindias!

I think that manages to cover both categories, no?

Wow, I was right, the very next post was a random flame.

Donnel wrote:Wow, I was right, the very next post was a random flame.

Bah, it wasn't random in the least, and I think it covered 'bull crap' as well.

Xao is upset because he got sand in his snatch...

xaoshaen wrote:

Donnel wrote:Wow, I was right, the very next post was a random flame.

Bah, it wasn't random in the least, and I think it covered 'bull crap' as well.

I tried to say that, but the way I worded it sounded... awkward.

So I shortened my post to the above.

kaharthemad wrote:Xao is upset because he got sand in his snatch...

Bitter much? Did you miss the direct reference to Donnel's joke about the flaming and bull crap starting? Here, I'll repeat it for ya:

Donnel wrote:(queue random flame and bullcrap now )

xaoshaen wrote:I think that manages to cover both categories, no?

Calling a spade a spade is most certainly not bitter.

I recommend a hot tub to remove the sand.