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Yeah that's total bullshit on the part of the NBA. Oh, Bulls up by 20 ^^

The message the NBA sends to teams: Use a scrub to cause an incident to a player that results in his star teammates instinctively standing up and walking a few steps forward to protect him - and the instigator's team can virtually be handed a playoff game victory.

It's pathetic and another glaring example of why the NBA is hurting (at the very top) when compared to MLB and especially the NFL.

it's a shame, but you can't let players get away with breaking the rules. It is clear cut, everybody knows, if you're not currently one of the 5 men on your team in the game you do not step on the floor.

I don't really get how they can give horry 2 games and let bowen and his dirty play totally off though

numatu wrote:It's pathetic and another glaring example of why the NBA is hurting (at the very top) when compared to MLB and especially the NFL.

The NBA is hurting but baseball is well managed? Hehe you are funny, sir.

Snero wrote:it's a shame, but you can't let players get away with breaking the rules. It is clear cut, everybody knows, if you're not currently one of the 5 men on your team in the game you do not step on the floor.

I don't really get how they can give horry 2 games and let bowen and his dirty play totally off though

Yep, the rules are clear, but the odd thing is there was a previous squirmish between Bell and Bowen I believe where Duncan left the bench. The NBA didn't take notice of that one.

The NBA claimed that that wasn't an "Altercation", so thus Duncan was fine.

And I don't think you can argue about the NFL being competantly run, yes? MLB, sure, Selig is a screwball, but for the most part the NFL has its shit together.

-Arlos

arlos wrote:And I don't think you can argue about the NFL being competantly run, yes? MLB, sure, Selig is a screwball, but for the most part the NFL has its shit together.

I agree. The NFL is really well managed.

The NBA is going to have to do something MAJOR this offseason about the ref'ing situation. Every single sports-related site I've been to has been bitching about how bad the reffing is this year. Hell, there was even an article on it in Time Magazine.

Throw in that study about racial patterns in awarding fouls, that independent groups have already at least partially confirmed the findings of and the NBA has a massive issue it HAS to deal with or it's going to be in deep shit.

-Arlos

Part of the reason the NFL is so well managed is because they can actually control their own sport. The NFLPA is unfairly perceived as weak and nothing but puppet heads, especially Upshaw, because they actually care for the health of the game as well as player interests. The MLB union is off the other end, since it is not run by a former player like Upshaw, it's run by a leech lawyer. Even if Selig wanted to fix all the problems in baseball he pretty much can't, and it's why the MLB isn't as successful as the NFL, yet still ahead of the NBA. However Stern does have the power to fix most of the problems with the NBA, but instead of doing it, he worries about how the players dress as they come off buses on road trips. That's the difference.

numatu wrote:Even if Selig wanted to fix all the problems in baseball he pretty much can't, and it's why the MLB isn't as successful as the NFL, yet still ahead of the NBA. However Stern does have the power to fix most of the problems with the NBA, but instead of doing it, he worries about how the players dress as they come off buses on road trips. That's the difference.

You obviously don't follow the NBA.

arlos wrote:The NBA is going to have to do something MAJOR this offseason about the ref'ing situation. Every single sports-related site I've been to has been bitching about how bad the reffing is this year. Hell, there was even an article on it in Time Magazine.

Throw in that study about racial patterns in awarding fouls, that independent groups have already at least partially confirmed the findings of and the NBA has a massive issue it HAS to deal with or it's going to be in deep shit.

-Arlos

I will be the last to say the NBA refs are prefect, but anybody who uses that study as any indication of a problem hasn't even read anything about it other then the headlines. It has yet to undergo peer review, it is missing some important statistics namely which ref actually called which foul, they based the whole study on the composition of the ref team.

I would more say the problem with the NBA is in the front office, they make stupid calls, seem to favour certain players/teams over others. I can't believe bowen can constantly get away with what he does, and thats not a ref problem, thats on the league

I'm not sure what your counter-point is because all you've responded with are "hehe you funny, sir" and "You obviously don't follow the NBA".

Instead of those two meaningless responses that contribute nothing like many people I've seen you rip for that very fact on this forum, how about one that explains your position? I'm not trying to be argumentative or pretentious like your above posts, I actually would like to know the reasons for your disagreement.

You haven't stated any opinion other than, MLB is better than the NBA. Let's not all pretend you've dropped some great pearls of wisdom I need to completely dissect here.

But as for baseball, I'm not sure what the TV ratings are, but I don't think they're very good. They certainly aren't on the rise, they have a steroid scandal, they have a problem with inflated salaries and none of these things have been successfully managed.

The NBA on the other hand has managed to market the game globally, and is gaining tremendous ground in every country outside North America. In many it is right behind soccer. I don't entirely believe that the league is still in free fall since Jordan left, but the TV ratings in the North America aren't great from all accounts, but that's no better than Baseball (who would watch that anyway).

Point is you aren't saying anything for me to contradict. You don't like Basketball so you'll say something silly like baseball is better managed than Basketball, which just about every single sport junky will disagree with you...

You obviously don't follow the NBA.

Zan, do you think Stern and his methodology are holding back the NBA at all?

What methodology?

He's trying to clean up the image of the NBA. He has an up hill battle because most people see the NBA and think dangerous minority. He's trying to market the game to a wider audience.

The Stoudemire/Diaw suspension were silly, but he had no choice. It wasn't up for debate. I'm sure they'll look into the rule this summer, but as it stands, it's very explicit, and the suns players were well aware of it.

The dress code I think was a good rule. People mumbled about for like a week and now all the players look more "presentable" on the side lines and no one is talking about it.

Can I turn the question on you? What league do you think it better managed? The NBA or MLB?

I'd say the NBA. Neither in my opinion is very well managed.

I don't like the way Stern handles business in the NBA, and I think they stress trivial bullshit, at the expense of the health of the game. We won't know if the better team will have won the Spurs/Suns series, due to the Stoudemire suspension, which in every way was trivial. That's completely unacceptable to me in any major league sport, except WWE. Stern keeps repeating he 'had' to do it. Which is untrue.

Baseball is America's pasttime but Bud Selig and MLB have done as much as they could to try and alienate it's base, via greedy, roided players, silly strikes, price hikes, and too much dilution of tradition.

Last years World Series had the lowest TV ratings ever for one. That pretty much speaks volumes of the ineptitude of Baseball.

On the flip side, ABC this year posted their fifth consecutive record-low ratings for NBA broadcast network regular-season coverage. So, it appears basketball is tanking, too. It's appeal is at a low in the U.S..

Stern isn't as stubborn as he is perceived to be. A few years ago when two bad calls were made in the playoffs with no time left, he looked into allowing replay to determine if the shot got off in time. The product is better for it.

I'm sure he will be looking at the bench rule in the off-season, but the thing is the Suns players knew full well about the rule and chose to jump off the bench. The thing the NBA doesn't want to do is have the rule be up for debate. That is when you'll get into trouble with all the conspiracy theorists talking about how Stern loves to fix the games.

Having said all that, I would have liked for him to overturn the rule yesterday, but that's just because I'm rooting for the suns~

I'd prefer the Suns to win, but honestly it's not a big deal. After watching the Stoudemire tape several times, it was nebulous enough to not warrant a suspension in any sport.. Except the NBA and the WWE..

Seeing as how the NBA playoff TV ratings are horrible, I guess nobody really cares, though.

lyion wrote:Seeing as how the NBA playoff TV ratings are horrible, I guess nobody really cares, though.

I'm not so sure about that. You counting worldwide audience?

The thing about the Stoudemire suspension is that it isn't up for debate. The rule is clear on this fact.

The other thing Stern needs to address is the refereeing situation. Everyone, and I mean everyone, that I have read in any news outlet or website has been uniform in calling the standard of refereeing in the NBA to be flat-out terrible, especially here in the playoffs. Flopping is on the rise, etc. etc. etc.

For the health of the league, that MUST be addressed, and right bloody now, or the NBA is in for a world of hurt. I mean, who is going to watch a basketball contest when they feel that the outcome is as likely (or more likely) to be decided by lousy officiating than by the skills & efforts of either team on the court?

You don't see anywhere near this level of ref bitching in the NFL, do you? The NBA MUST act. Replace current NBA with college refs, put 4 on the court instead of 2, SOMETHING.

-Arlos

arlos wrote: The NBA MUST act. Replace current NBA with college refs, put 4 on the court instead of 2, SOMETHING.

HAHAHHAH you think the refs are better in college?

Yea there has been a lot of whining, but the league has already done something about it. They suspended Joey Crawford.

I would suggest watching the games to find out how bad the officiating is. I've watched parts of just about every game that's been played in the playoffs this year I haven't been outraged by the officiating. There has been a lot of whining from players though, which is why the media has likely picked up on it.

Did you know that absolutely every single Spur currently dressed has never once committed a foul? It's surprising I know, but from time to time they get calls against them but every time they're surprised.

Detroit has the same reaction.

It's a hard game to call because people are moving so quick, but the refs they have in the league, with the exception of Violet Palmer, are the best around. I won't comment on other sports I don't watch that much since that would be silly.

I'd disagree with the NFL not having problems with ref bitching. The last few years officiating has been trashed (especially in the playoffs - like Polamalu's INT called back a year ago, among others). There's really no reason why referees shouldn't be full time.

Also, I don't think I ever said the MLB was 'better' than the NBA, and I also never said "I don't like Basketball." Just that in revenue and TV ratings/contract, I believe it's NFL, MLB, NBA, in that order, and some of the reasons for that must have to do with management on some level.

You know what league is the most fucked up management wise? The NHL.

While looking for a pic of taxx I found this old thread.

http://namelesstavern.net/viewtopic.php ... ax&start=0

Made me laugh. I called Hoffa a monster rebounder. There is no excuse for that.

gg Chicago, gg....not really


goats thx