More evolutionary lies.

mofish · Post by **mofish** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:07 pm

It was probably not ok to murder someone arbitrarily in most places, even before your little books telling you what to do were written.

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:08 pm

xaoshaen wrote:
Tikker wrote:
xaoshaen wrote:I advise you not to call anyone else condescending after that bit of prose. Feel free to disprove the existence of YHWH then. We'll be waiting.

Prove his existence. We'll be waiting.

Why the fuck would I want to prove his existence?

Morals, when it comes down to it, just is about whether or not an action makes you feel bad afterwards

That's guilt, not morality.

Guilt is a function or byproduct of morality

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:12 pm

Ganzo wrote:that could be a chicken vs egg question

I always hated that analogy

2 diff't species can get it on, to reproduce a 3rd

egg came first!

xaoshaen · Post by **xaoshaen** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:19 pm

mofish wrote:It was probably not ok to murder someone arbitrarily in most places, even before your little books telling you what to do were written.

Given that law itself is simply a little book telling you what to do, murder is as acceptable as you can force it to be. In different places, that degree varied, depending upon who held the biggest stick.

xaoshaen · Post by **xaoshaen** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:20 pm

Tikker wrote:Guilt is a function or byproduct of morality

That's another discussion entirely, but it's evident that guilt can exist independantly of an individual's morality, as it can be externally imposed.

brinstar · Post by **brinstar** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:55 pm

xaoshaen wrote:
mofish wrote:It was probably not ok to murder someone arbitrarily in most places, even before your little books telling you what to do were written.

Given that law itself is simply a little book telling you what to do, murder is as acceptable as you can force it to be. In different places, that degree varied, depending upon who held the biggest stick.

not to mention the government holds the biggest stick, it's legal for them

Post by **Arlos** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:42 am

And when you look at history, since when did Christianity ever have a problem with murder? At least so long as the people they were slaughtering either prayed to a different invisible man in the sky, or differed on the details of the same invisible man. (See: the Cathars for an example of the latter) Not that this is unique to christianity, understand, of course. Indeed, I think it likely that more deaths have been committed in the history of western civilization in the name of one or another dieties than for any other cause.

-Arlos

Post by **Lyion** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:01 am

Communism and Fascism disagree with that analogy. I'd be curious to see the exact numbers.

Christianity has been responsible for many bad things, but certainly not to the extent you say. Also, much of that is 'politics' and not Christianity, per se. Of course, on the flip side it's responsible for many, many good things and still to this day is a force for good and betterment of the world.

Since you threw out one extreme, Arlos, I shall throw out another which is more accurate:

More good deeds have been committed in the name of Christianity than any other cause in the history of Western Civilization

Yamori · Post by **Yamori** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:16 am

I'd be interested to see the numbers - religion or totalitarian politics being the bigger killer.

If I had to make a raw guess on number of people killed by the latter in the past 80 years, I'd say around 60 million. Maybe 65 or 70 million if you count war casualties.

I wonder if all the murders, small religious conflicts, crusades, inquisitions, and larger ones would add up to that? History has had a lot of them, so I wouldn't be surprised, but I don't know for sure.

10sun · Post by **10sun** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:24 am

Proportionally, compared to the world populations at the time, religion is a slaughter.

Remember that great flood? Yeah, thats right dawg. All but one family wiped off the face of the fucking earth.

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:02 am

I think it'd probably be neck and neck between politics and religion when it comes down to the murder lists

that being said, there really isn't much difference between politics and religion

xaoshaen · Post by **xaoshaen** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:29 am

Tikker wrote:I think it'd probably be neck and neck between politics and religion when it comes down to the murder lists

that being said, there really isn't much difference between politics and religion

And far too many people can't distinguish between them. Witness all the people who lump the Crusades under 'religion'.

Agrajag · Post by **Agrajag** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:30 am

lyion wrote:Of course, on the flip side it's responsible for many, many good things and still to this day is a force for good and betterment of the world.

Name something good to come out of religion? Something tangible and not an emotion or feeling.

Post by **Lyion** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:48 am

Feel free to read a book of someone whose whole life was devoted to the betterment of the world in the name of Christ.

[url=http://n`obelprize.org/peace/laureates/1979/teresa-bio.html]Or just look at the abbreviated version[/url]

Likewise, there are enough stories on the web of Christian Missionaries to keep one busy for a lifetime.

That may not be 'tangible and real' to you, but it is to me.

Post by **Tossica** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:55 am

Isn't the "Betterment of the world" enough though? Why do we need "in the name of Christ" in there?

Post by **Lyion** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:08 am

Er, because that is how it was. Simple fact, there.

Agrajag · Post by **Agrajag** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:11 am

So a bunch of people were made to feel happy because of religion? Neato... :biblehumper:

Post by **Lyion** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:17 am

Yes, Mother Theresa obviously had no impact, nor do any Christian Missionaries helping the poor.

Bizarre logic some have.

:boggle:

Agrajag · Post by **Agrajag** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:22 am

I couldn't care less about the poor of another country.

And I am quite sure more people have died due to religion than lives have been saved by it...

Post by **Tossica** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:30 am

lyion wrote::ugh:

Yes, Mother Theresa obviously had no impact, nor do any Christian Missionaries helping the poor.

Bizarre logic some have.

:boggle:

Do some more research on ole Mother Theresa. Yes, she had a huge impact but I think you'd be surprised to find out how much "good" she really did for the poor of the world compared to how much good she did for the church.

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:46 am

xaoshaen wrote:
Tikker wrote:I think it'd probably be neck and neck between politics and religion when it comes down to the murder lists

that being said, there really isn't much difference between politics and religion

And far too many people can't distinguish between them. Witness all the people who lump the Crusades under 'religion'.

I think it would be foolish to write off religion has having nothing to do with the crusades either though

Politics and Religion have been so intermingled for so long, there really isn't a whole lot of difference between the 2 anymore

Post by **Lyion** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:56 am

Tossica wrote:
lyion wrote::ugh:

Yes, Mother Theresa obviously had no impact, nor do any Christian Missionaries helping the poor.

Bizarre logic some have.

:boggle:

Do some more research on ole Mother Theresa. Yes, she had a huge impact but I think you'd be surprised to find out how much "good" she really did for the poor of the world compared to how much good she did for the church.

I've read all of Christopher Hitchins work on her, as well as other critics. I'd suggest you do some research of the research and find out the truth for her youself. Its too bad hateful people have to twist things, but unfortunately it's a simple fact of life.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:57 am

Arlos wrote:And when you look at history, since when did Christianity ever have a problem with murder? At least so long as the people they were slaughtering either prayed to a different invisible man in the sky, or differed on the details of the same invisible man.

It's shit like that which makes you people look moronic in your discussions.

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:59 am

Tossica wrote:
lyion wrote::ugh:

Yes, Mother Theresa obviously had no impact, nor do any Christian Missionaries helping the poor.

Bizarre logic some have.

:boggle:

Do some more research on ole Mother Theresa. Yes, she had a huge impact but I think you'd be surprised to find out how much "good" she really did for the poor of the world compared to how much good she did for the church.

...

Is he seriously trying to defame Mother Theresa?

Tell me he's joking and not that ignorant...

Tikker · Post by **Tikker** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:02 am

Harrison wrote:
Arlos wrote:And when you look at history, since when did Christianity ever have a problem with murder? At least so long as the people they were slaughtering either prayed to a different invisible man in the sky, or differed on the details of the same invisible man.

It's shit like that which makes you people look moronic in your discussions.

Man, you nitpick some of the stupidest shit ever

big deal, he used a different analogy for god/supreme being/budha

oh noz