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Tacks wrote:No, it's more important because that is going to be the only variable that changes the damage of your instants. agility=AP so don't think I meant +AP items exclusively.

I was assuming you were considering AP increases from direct boosts, strength, and agility, but even before the nerf, AP was the only stat that changed the damage of your instants, it just does so less effectively now (assuming your weapon was slower than the default speeds). What makes AP more desireable now that you get less from it?

Mudcrush Durtfeet wrote:Instant attack damage scaled proportionally with the sum of attack power x weapon speed + weapon dps x weapon speed prior to 1.8

Now it scales proportionally to attack power x constant_based_on_weapon_type + weapon dps x weapon speed.

So for the first part of the sum to increase, you must increase attack power - there isn't anything else you can do.

Oh, I understand how the damage calculations were done, but what I'm asking is why, when you're getting less value per point of attack power than you were initially, do you discard other stats (like stamina) to overcome the loss? Is it better to stock up on the devalued stat or those that haven't been changed?

I guess it boils down to whether you need to maintain your damage or your hit points, armor, and resistances more. For PvP, I'm not sure choosing DPS is the best decision.

What they meant to do was make it so Barman Shanker didn't > Corehound tooth (type weapons), and the same for things like Arcanite Reaper > Obsidian Edged Blade, kinda things. Thing is, they lowered everything so drastically (more noticeable for rogues than warriors, for some reason) and now our dps is shit. Guildie of ours Jaytee has the Hand of Ragnaros legendary Mace, outdamages everyone by 500k for a full clear, i come in second. He usually tops out around 1.9 million and i around 1.4 million for damage (full clear mc).

Now that my bs's will be critting on giants and shit for like 1k and ambushes for 1200 (full sunder), i'm going to be even farther behind. This shit sucks.

I've already been working on AP gear, I think I can get a little over 1k with my AP gear on unbuffed. Helm from ZG, doomhide gaunts etc etc. Turns my sta to shit but eh, oh well I guess.

trust me, the casters cry you a river.

trust me, the casters cry you a river.

QFT. No one else is concerned except rogues. Guess what you are still at the top of DPS and everything else. One nerf in how long? Wah.

One nerf? We've been nerfed 10 fucking patches in a row. Before you cry class imbalance learn what you're talking about.

AdivinaDarkfyre wrote:

trust me, the casters cry you a river.

QFT. No one else is concerned except rogues. Guess what you are still at the top of DPS and everything else. One nerf in how long? Wah.

What don't you get...Half ass warriors still beat us at our best.

It's fine, once we get our talents revamped like everyone else does we'll be decent again. Right now ALL we're good for is DPS. And with the recent nerf and the hunter buffs we're neck and neck on dps. The problem is that mages and hunters are far more self-sufficient than we are in the typical group. We do decent in BWL still but thats only because of the gay agro control game they have set up in there.

Play a druid, then complain.

The point is, this isn't a class vs class discussion. If you want to whine about your class then make a seperate thread.

None of the druids in my guild are complaining whatsoever.

The WoW boards are hardly a good representation of any class. Every single clas board is full of reason why every other class is beter then them and why they need to be buffed and others need to be nerfed.

However to say that this is the first nerf to rogues is very wrong. They have been slowly nerfed over and over. If you read all the class boards, the people screaming about rogues are the casters, well that makes sence rogues are strogest against casters. The problem is everyone bitching about nerfing rogues becasue of their ability to own casters in PVP completely ignores they use in PVE.

What exactly is the role of a rogue in PVE now?

The role of the pve rogue is DPS and thats it..BUT WAIT! Hunters now do almost as much dps but required 1/10th the amount of babysitting that we do.

They didn't even nerf ruin Adi. They are changing spell resistance next patch instead so shadow can't go negative. I am perfectly happy warlock and all they need is shard bag/make the end game pets not suck more ass than a typical 12 year old night elf player and they are gold. Solo pvp we own, only people I lost to were cold blood rogues and occasionally a warrior, group pvp also own. With heals and such locks can survive as long as a fully purpled warrior. Dot duration was shortened, death coil was buffed... I don't think I ever got below top 10 in dps when I was actually trying in MC (top 5 if I wore all my shadow gear and went balls out, but I also died every time I would crit for like 3500). I think the weapon nerf finally rebalances casters/melee and now hunters are a tad overpowered, esp since they can aggro dump.

Sap? Duration nerfed and is breakable, berserker rage breaks it USABLE ONLY OUT OF COMBAT AND WHILE STEALTHED Improved sap requires you to go far down the Subtlety tree and is basically only used by non-raiding rogues.

Ambush? Power scaled differently and much less (nerfed in 2 seperate patches)

Eviscerate? Does not scale with weapon damage, a level 1 weapon does as much dmg as an epic

Vanish? 5 minute timer. FINALLY FIXED (in pve) but is broken by any number of things, dots, hunters mark, AE

Stealth? Dots break stealth, FALLING DAMAGE BREAKS STEALTH. A stiff breeze breaks stealth. Heavily nerfed throughout the last 6 or so patches, indirectly and directly. Human Perception sees you a mile away and is on a very short cooldown. Warlock and Hunter pets see you easily. Hunters flare is indetectable as to where the flared area is. Hunter's Mark even lasts after death. Hunters pets can magically still attack you after you vanish and/or stealth even if they're a mile away. Cats eye elixer and goggles easily render stealth useless.

Damage mitigation? LAUGH, with warlock's armor and even mage armor, priest inner fire, the casters end up with a higher armor stat than we do with leather. We have evasion and that is it. Against a Warrior evasion makes us die EVEN FASTER due to Overpower (if they have rage). Evasion does not work against projectiles or spells, ONLY melee.

Distance attacks? Throwing skill is laughable and the only usuable items are the one drop in LBRS or vendored throwing daggers, this still does less damage than a level 60 caster meleeing with a dagger and MUCH less than wand damage. Bows are the only other alternative we have a range and even with a high crit rate average out to less than 75 DPS.

Blind? On a 3 minute timer. Can be broken by dots, melee hits, paladin shield, AE's requires an expensive as fuck reagent (Fadeleaf) 5-8g for a stack of 20.

Cold Blood? 3 minute timer. Requires you to go 3/4 of the way down a talent tree. It's a gauranteed critical hit BUT CAN STILL MISS? hello wtf