namelesstavern.net

Kinda my point. DC, which probably should ID, is wide open but the US Geological Survey office in Denver is on lockdown. What a kooky world we live in.

I think you misunderstood what Lyion said. I dont think he meant DC is wide open but that there are more federal properties, area wise, in other parts of the country than DC itself.

Probably...I've been fighting a vicious headcold the last couple days. Can eyeballs pop out from sinus pressure? I feel like mine are about to.

This land is my land, Lyion. I pay for Federal property as I do state, county, city... etc. It's PUBLIC. We all "own" it. This bullshit aura around federal, state, city buildings is created with my taxes. Who are the people working in those buildings? Super scientist? The words greatest minds? Fuck no. The Capitol, Pentagon, and your precious VA admin building is filled with US citizens just like any other building in America. There is no specialness about it. Are they symbolic? Absolutely. But symbolic of what? Our countries greatness stemming from our system of liberty was what I use to think. Now it's the power and might of a government that no longer represents it's citizens as it tries to control them. It was a sad day when they blockaded the Capitol pedestrian traffic. Sadder will be when you are not allowed access at all to your elected "representatives". Ok off my soap box.

PS. I would give you a run for your money on being the most libertarian considering I ran for office as one

Where is the token YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTORITAH Cartman picture?

Eziekial wrote:This land is my land, Lyion. I pay for Federal property as I do state, county, city... etc. It's PUBLIC. We all "own" it. This bullshit aura around federal, state, city buildings is created with my taxes. Who are the people working in those buildings? Super scientist? The words greatest minds? Fuck no. The Capitol, Pentagon, and your precious VA admin building is filled with US citizens just like any other building in America. There is no specialness about it. Are they symbolic? Absolutely. But symbolic of what? Our countries greatness stemming from our system of liberty was what I use to think. Now it's the power and might of a government that no longer represents it's citizens as it tries to control them. It was a sad day when they blockaded the Capitol pedestrian traffic. Sadder will be when you are not allowed access at all to your elected "representatives". Ok off my soap box.

While I respect the point you are making, do we really want unfettered access to the Pentagon, VA, NSA, Langley or other similar buildings?

I agree restricted access should be based on need and not solely on it being 'Federal' but I believe it's valid for certain buildings to protect the integrity of certain government operations.

Unfettered access. What "integrity of certain government operations" are you referring to? How would you feel if you owned a company and someone told you "sorry sir, you're not allowed access to this area." A government of the people, by the people and for the people has almost vanished. You may feel uncomfortable going into our Capitol and asking to see what your government is up to but I certainly don't. If you do not want to know, that is your prerogative but do not stand by and watch those in power shut others out. And don't start arguing about military strategy to me, I was just at the Pentagon and saw first-hand what goes on and I can assure you it's nothing like the stupid O-ring TV show. 98% of the poeple in that building are playing solitaire or rewriting a power point presentation based on the latest from CNN or MSNBC.

Eziekial wrote:Unfettered access. What "integrity of certain government operations" are you referring to? How would you feel if you owned a company and someone told you "sorry sir, you're not allowed access to this area." A government of the people, by the people and for the people has almost vanished. You may feel uncomfortable going into our Capitol and asking to see what your government is up to but I certainly don't. If you do not want to know, that is your prerogative but do not stand by and watch those in power shut others out. And don't start arguing about military strategy to me, I was just at the Pentagon and saw first-hand what goes on and I can assure you it's nothing like the stupid O-ring TV show. 98% of the poeple in that building are playing solitaire or rewriting a power point presentation based on the latest from CNN or MSNBC.

'

We have more access to the government now than any time in this century, I think. It's not individual, but it's effective. It can and should be better, but I've actually spoken directly to my Senator and House representive.

In regards to your company analogy, it's more akin to a stock holder not being given access to a production environment, to me. The stock holder needs to know what is happening, but doesn't need to be on the operations floor.

Also, I'm not arguing strategy, just that I can see the need for some measure of safety.

By a matter of comparison, you wouldn't leave your new car in downtown Detroit running with the door open, left alone. Then we should also protect the things that are deemed important by our democratically elected officials.

Fortunately, if you want things changed you can start a grass roots effort and have the rest of your stock holders vote on these issues.

Unfortunately many have reversed the famous quote of JFK, and no longer ask what they can do for their country, but what their country owes and should do for them....

The only thing this country owes me, it owes every citizen. That's the freedom to go where I wish and do as I wish, within the boundaries of the Constitution, free of having to show papers that prove I deserve to be there and do that. In return for that freedom, I will conduct myself in a lawful manner, obey federal and state statute, and kindly ask every jack booted thug on gov't pay not to assume I'm doing otherwise.

Here is a shocker.

I agree with Arlos. Despite the fact that we are the focus of terrorist hatred, we should never give up our individual freedoms. I have been against the Patriot Act where it did anything to curtail public privacy, and I am against any form of Federal ID system.

This is America. Not, Oceana!

-Duck

Lyion wrote:I'm probably the most libertarian on this board.

Maybe I'm missing something, but where in the Libertarian platform does it advocate denying gay people the right to marry. For that matter isn't it a little against their anti government anarchist code to have the government sponsor a religion by teaching creationism and discouraging evolutionism?

Or are you only Libertarian in every instance in which it so happens to intersect with the Conservative Republican platform, and the rest of the time, well....close enough, right?

Zanchief Returns wrote:

Lyion wrote:I'm probably the most libertarian on this board.

Maybe I'm missing something, but where in the Libertarian platform does it advocate denying gay people the right to marry.

Or are you only Libertarian in every instance in which it so happens to intersect with the Conservative Republican platform, and the rest of the time, well....close enough, right?

I'm against Government intervention in marriage, period. That's pretty much as libertarian as one can be. You obviously want government controlling every part of your life, and especially your news, comrade. We do things differently here.

Yeah right.

Nice to have the h8 back. Current Affairs was actually polite for a few days.

Lyion wrote:Nice to have the h8 back. Current Affairs was actually polite for a few days.

Fuck off.

Being libertarian means keeping the Government limited to the constructs of the Constitution. This does not mean one can't have an opinion on those issues and show disdain or admiration for certain actions on issues.
"I may not agree with what you have to say but I will fight for you right to say it. "

And it starts...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Miami Police Take New Tack Against Terror
Nov 28 9:28 PM US/Eastern

By CURT ANDERSON
Associated Press Writer


MIAMI


Miami police announced Monday they will stage random shows of force at hotels, banks and other public places to keep terrorists guessing and remind people to be vigilant.

Deputy Police Chief Frank Fernandez said officers might, for example, surround a bank building, check the IDs of everyone going in and out and hand out leaflets about terror threats.

"This is an in-your-face type of strategy. It's letting the terrorists know we are out there," Fernandez said.

The operations will keep terrorists off guard, Fernandez said. He said al-Qaida and other terrorist groups plot attacks by putting places under surveillance and watching for flaws and patterns in security.

Police Chief John Timoney said there was no specific, credible threat of an imminent terror attack in Miami. But he said the city has repeatedly been mentioned in intelligence reports as a potential target.

Timoney also noted that 14 of the 19 hijackers who took part in the Sept. 11 attacks lived in South Florida at various times and that other alleged terror cells have operated in the area.

Both uniformed and plainclothes police will ride buses and trains, while others will conduct longer-term surveillance operations.

"People are definitely going to notice it," Fernandez said. "We want that shock. We want that awe. But at the same time, we don't want people to feel their rights are being threatened. We need them to be our eyes and ears."

Howard Simon, executive director of ACLU of Florida, said the Miami initiative appears aimed at ensuring that people's rights are not violated.

"What we're dealing with is officers on street patrol, which is more effective and more consistent with the Constitution," Simon said. "We'll have to see how it is implemented."

Mary Ann Viverette, president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, said the Miami program is similar to those used for years during the holiday season to deter criminals at busy places such as shopping malls.

"You want to make your presence known and that's a great way to do it," said Viverette, police chief in Gaithersburg, Md. "We want people to feel they can go about their normal course of business, but we want them to be aware."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We should do everything we can to stop this.

-Duck

Wow, that seems almost Gestapo like.

damn, Terrorism is turning into an excuse for a faschist state. Lets have military parades, and take those arabs somewhere they can be 'protected'. Its turning from a crusade to an attempt to make people paranoid, at least those people who can think and arent sheep.

If people are afraid, they're more likely to keep the current regime in power, especially if the opposing side are spun as weak on the war, etc. It's a well-known tactic that goes back to roman times. It's pretty obvious that the administration is doing it completely deliberately, it's just most people are too much sheep to realize it.

-Arlos

Basically, what the Miami PD is doing is saying, "Because we lack any investigative inginuity, have piss poor intelligence resources, and cannot get cooperation with the FBI or CIA. So, we'll just try to flush out the maybe nonexistant terrorists like a deer drive. We're talentless hacks, and lots of you think we're the only ones who should get to carry guns. Who knows, we might even catch some regular criminals"

IF YOUR NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG YOU HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR MMMMMMMMKAY

spazz wrote:IF YOUR NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG YOU HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR MMMMMMMMKAY

I bet 6+ Million Jews would have something to say to that comment.

-Duck

I was being sarcstic. I dont think you should have to a damn thing the cops ask unless they have a warrent.

arlos wrote:If people are afraid, they're more likely to keep the current regime in power, especially if the opposing side are spun as weak on the war, etc. It's a well-known tactic that goes back to roman times. It's pretty obvious that the administration is doing it completely deliberately, it's just most people are too much sheep to realize it.

-Arlos

exactly, funny that we although less physically violent (at least from what the sheep media tells us), are just as bad in otherways as the dictators we overthrow. Wonder when someone is going to overthrow us for it.