Internet Under Attack

[Tikker]

PS. Given that tikker WORKS for one of those large telcos that want to have their cake and eat it too, take his comments with a VERY large grain of salt.

oh shit, who wants to hear both sides of an arguement!

[Arlos]

Not necessarily. Not everyone is bright and talented. What about the guy who's mildly retarded, with a 90 IQ, say. Functional, he can live on his own, but he can't handle anything complex, so is basically stuck at minimum wage.

What about someone who IS highly trained, but gets laid off, and there's no available positions in a job he's got skills for, so he has no choice but to take what he can get, which may well BE a minimum wage job.

-Arlos

[Tikker]

Minimum wage jobs are for teenagers.

If you are an adult and thats all you can get you obviously fucked up some where along the line and deserve what you get.

QFT


people need to wake the fuck up and realize that working at walmart/mcdonalds/etc is not a fucking career

[Diekan]

Minimum wage jobs are for teenagers.

If you are an adult and thats all you can get you obviously fucked up some where along the line and deserve what you get.

QFT


people need to wake the fuck up and realize that working at walmart/mcdonalds/etc is not a fucking career

oh really? and since our manufacturing jobs are either in the hands of robots or being sent overseas and with our middle class jobs (IT, science, business, etc) being sent to India, Sweden and so forth... what exactly is there left?

[Gidan]

Acutally, there are many people who make a very good living from working at Walmart and such. You just need to put enough time in and do well enough to get promoted to managment.

[Dylan]

I'm not talking about the mentally retarded or people down on their luck.

I'm talking about little miss fucks-on-the-first-period who started doing crack when she was 15 and her brother Pothead McGee that don't understand why the entire world is taking a giant shit on their heads after they wasted years of their life not doing anything.

There are alot of corporate companies such as McDonalds and Walmart places like that which offer programs to get better wages, promotions etc just for watching some videos and taking tests.

You have to try really really hard to stay at minimum wage in this country.

[Diekan]

I'm not talking about the mentally retarded or people down on their luck.

I'm talking about little miss fucks-on-the-first-period who started doing crack when she was 15 and her brother Pothead McGee that don't understand why the entire world is taking a giant shit on their heads after they wasted years of their life not doing anything.

Hey... Harrison is doing pretty well these days.

[Yamori]

If forcing a small business to pay it's employees $1 more an hour is going to put them out of business, they need to revisit their business model and or deserve to go under. If I had a small business and was only paying my employees minimum wage, I would feel like a slave driver. It's disgusting.

Most businesses fail after a small number of years, and some of them are actually losing money. I'm not saying these are smart businesspersons, but if they aren't making profit as is, and wages are raised, some people are going to get fired.

The whole issue in general kind of pisses me off because the mass majority's attitude is to pin the problems on business and force them to pay more.

No one says a thing about the government printing an ever increasingly large supply of paper currency with no gold standard to back it - which is one of the major reasons why 6$ an hour is worth less and less and less as time goes on.

No one says anything about social security taxes (which most people under 45 probably won't even get the payoff for at retirement), sales taxes, property taxes, corporate taxes, and all the other forms of taxation which cut into the worker's paychecks and bank accounts, and cut into the employer's ability to pay their workers more.

No one says anything about forced union memberships (and hence - forced union dues), and how this contributes to rising prices.

I don't think anyone's arguing that living on minimum wage doesn't suck balls in a huge way. The issue isn't whether there is a problem in lowest wages versus basic cost of living - because it's an obvious problem. The issue is: is raising the minimum wage addressing the real problem and the real cause - and will it do anything?

We as a society should be working towards deflation as the way of increasing the standard of living for those with the lowest wages, rather than simply forcing businesses to pay their employees more.

[araby]

Minimum wage is self-defining. While I want to say, "Oh..well, those minimum wage jobs should be for teens and cripples only" (because saying that justifies something-that anyone else working minimum wage jobs just need to "get with it" and puts nothing on me..) well I just can't say that. I really believe that our standards are so high that at this point-honestly-who even gives a shit who has the most money.

People don't even know how to enjoy life anymore because of it. Just living to work/survive.

while making life incredibly easy for some, our society and it's growth have made life very hard for others. When people talk about our government it sometimes seems as though they are talking about one person. "The government needs to...blah blah" is probably the most often repeated words country-wide. The government is so many people, and so much time, how does anyone get anything heard/done especially to the satisfaction of the people in THIS country. with our standards.

Gidan I don't mean disrespect-

Acutally, there are many people who make a very good living from working at Walmart and such. You just need to put enough time in and do well enough to get promoted to managment.

but honestly-I can't believe you just said this. I can't ever, a time in my life -not when I was a crackhead whore, not when I was Miss Suzy Homemaker, and not even when I was Granny-think of when the thought passed "getting promoted to management at Wal Mart would be such a great idea."

NOBODY wants that freaking job! The jobs poor people do are exactly what they get paid for-to make the biggest guy more money, and then it pyramids down. funny how, the janitor at wal-mart and the CEO could just as easily be the same person, had their paths been different-the ones they could change and the ones they couldn't. How quick we all are to say "hey...you should do better yourself! maybe you'll get to work on hot side instead of cold side! Movin' on up!"

I don't think life was meant to be enjoyed this way. Work, play, home, children, hobbies-it's all about money. why you get up every single day is about money-especially if you work full-time, without a four-year degree.

[10sun]

Minimum wage jobs are for teenagers.

If you are an adult and thats all you can get you obviously fucked up some where along the line and deserve what you get.

QFT


people need to wake the fuck up and realize that working at walmart/mcdonalds/etc is not a fucking career

oh really? and since our manufacturing jobs are either in the hands of robots or being sent overseas and with our middle class jobs (IT, science, business, etc) being sent to India, Sweden and so forth... what exactly is there left?

Plenty of jobs at Honda, Goodyears, Scotts, and Nestles in my town. If anything the factories overseas are being shut down and the work is being sent here. Most people entry level start at $18 an hour working in the factories doing unskilled labor. During the time they work at these factories, its not uncommon for their company to send them to school and raise their salaries. I know people making $40+ an hour without a college degree that have no worries about job security either.

[Tuggan]

where do you live? i need to move.

[10sun]

Marysville Ohio

[Dylan]

Gidan I don't mean disrespect-

Acutally, there are many people who make a very good living from working at Walmart and such. You just need to put enough time in and do well enough to get promoted to managment.

but honestly-I can't believe you just said this. I can't ever, a time in my life -not when I was a crackhead whore, not when I was Miss Suzy Homemaker, and not even when I was Granny-think of when the thought passed "getting promoted to management at Wal Mart would be such a great idea."

NOBODY wants that freaking job!

They may not want it, but the fact is that it is available. Sorry if you want to do crack and have sex all day and life off of it, but it ain't gonna happen.

[Diekan]

Marysville Ohio

I wrestled against them in high school. We usually won.

[Gidan]

Gidan I don't mean disrespect-

Acutally, there are many people who make a very good living from working at Walmart and such. You just need to put enough time in and do well enough to get promoted to managment.

but honestly-I can't believe you just said this. I can't ever, a time in my life -not when I was a crackhead whore, not when I was Miss Suzy Homemaker, and not even when I was Granny-think of when the thought passed "getting promoted to management at Wal Mart would be such a great idea."

NOBODY wants that freaking job! The jobs poor people do are exactly what they get paid for-to make the biggest guy more money, and then it pyramids down. funny how, the janitor at wal-mart and the CEO could just as easily be the same person, had their paths been different-the ones they could change and the ones they couldn't. How quick we all are to say "hey...you should do better yourself! maybe you'll get to work on hot side instead of cold side! Movin' on up!"

I don't think life was meant to be enjoyed this way. Work, play, home, children, hobbies-it's all about money. why you get up every single day is about money-especially if you work full-time, without a four-year degree.

Maybe you are not aware of what Walmart managment makes. You should talk to the Walmart store managers making 100,000+ a year or deparment managers making 80,000+ a year. You may not think thats a valid career choice, but the management side makes damn good money.

Or the McDonald's store managers who make 45,000 - 60,000 a year. Thats the same amount as the Manager of our Customer Service department makes, i will bet you that the McDonalds manager works less hours and has less stress too.

[Dylan]

BUT GIDAN NO ONE WANTS THAT JOB DON'T YOU KNOW THAT?!

[Tuggan]

eh, managing fast food is extremely stressful and you work a fuck ton of hours.

[Dylan]

Telling mexicans what to do is a hard job.

[Tuggan]

have you even found your first job yet?

[Dylan]

No... no I haven't.

That's why I'm complaining about people who don't have jobs.

Are you really that fucking stupid?

[Lyion]

eh, managing fast food is extremely stressful and you work a fuck ton of hours.

Bad Tuggan. No personal attacks! No Cookie!

[araby]

what I'm saying is that it's lousy work- and it's got nothing to offer but money. sure, I bet people feel rewarded in different ways in their jobs, but hey. we're talking fast food, cashier jobs (at wal mart or wherever else) It's not that I don't think it's a valid career. I think that it's wrong to get so wealthy from cheap products sold by cheap people that don't appreciate their jobs/salaries, quality continues to go down and people expect nothing. these people don't have pride in their jobs. why should they? the most they'll ever get is a MANAGEMENT PROMOTION, they'll never be that comfortable. and if they are-they are probably thankful for it every day, because it took them years to get to that position, especially if they are a single mother and black.

I agree with yamori, I don't think raising minimum wage will do anything for the better. when I consider my blessings, it's such a wonder how we have so many people in poverty. I might not have been so fortunate.

take leah for example. She is a female, raised by a mom and dad with a brother, she finished high school, worked a job at a grocery store and went to school. She worked there long enough to be manager (I think-right? a manager of sorts at least...) and now that she's finished school she's moved on to her next thing. I don't know about you guys, but I can't picture Leah in ten years still working at that grocery store and being very comfortable-but some people literally do making their livings in those jobs-and the way we continue to raise the standard of living (rent, cost of food, mortgage, car payments ((remember when they were $200?!)) the lower incomes can't keep up. their pay isn't increasing as quickly as the cost of living. the grocery store has to keep up with what everyone else is doing. of course it hurts small businesses to give raises, and large corporations as well-they actually have books they go by. I imagine. enron did too...

I imagine that Leah, having lived in the country before- now in the city, might not be able to keep the same rent payments, or cost of living arrangements on her grocery store salary. Everyone knows if you work in the city, you make more money. If you live oustide the city, it costs less. who can afford to live and work in the city?? as in buy a house? therefore, we set ourselves up to live here, work there, drive in between and create a cycle of spending gas/oil/money to get gas/oil/money.

[Tuggan]

eh, managing fast food is extremely stressful and you work a fuck ton of hours.

Bad Tuggan. No personal attacks! No Cookie!

its the truth. i worked in fast food as a kid, every manager i had was a raging psychotic because of the stress and hours they had to put in. im not talkin shift managers, but the guys that run the store for the owner.

[Harrison]

The store manager for the mcdonalds in my area is a pedophilic homo.

We'd get free food regularly. Then we grew up and realized why, and stopped eating there.

[Gidan]

What it sounds like is that you personally wouldn't like to work in store management. This fine, some jobs just dont fit some people. I know people dont beleive it, but companies like walmart actually do promote from within their own ranks to managment. The people who get those jobs do very well financially. Its not unheard of for somone to get hired as a cashire and years later be working their way up the managment ranks. It is of course completely possible to be a cashire from the day you start to the day you quit, it depends alot on you.

For example, I worked for a small diner type restaurant in HS. The manager of the restaurant who made 150K+ a year started as a waiter in HS, he went to college while working there, eventually an assitant manager then the store manager. When I left, he was being promoted to running his district with yet another nice raise. Do you consider being a waitor as someplace like the local diner a good career? I can gaurantee you that he does. By the way, when I started, I was being payed 3.25/hr ($5.25 minimum wage, they made up the difference if tips didn't).


On a different note, when considering minimum wage. Why is it that many jobs give a cost of living increase every year and minimum wage can stay the same for 9 years running?