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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:02 pm
by Tikker
Diekan wrote:Tikker wrote:Yamori wrote:Tikker wrote:I actually don't have an issue with mandatory military service for everyone
Unless you feel like going through mandatory military service yourself (any voluntary time doesn't count - we're talking 2 years forced military labor), you should.
I wouldn't have a major problem with it if
everyone in the country was forced to spend their precious time being forced to work against their will.*
That includes 40 year old busy business managers, retired elderly, all the hard working joes and janes, and yes - every damned politician. I'm 100% sure these people would be singing a different tune if their lives were effected.
It sickens me that these fat old cretins feel like they're entitled to toss around human beings' time in whatever way they see fit - like people are just property - simply because they are so-and-so aged.
*Ok I actually would have a problem with it. :P
I really don't see the big deal in having everyone, upon graduation of highschool (or reaching the age of 18) having to spend 2 years in the service
What makes the US military the best in the world is because it's completely voluntary. Forcing service is a bad idea. This is just one more "freedom" the government wants to take away from us. Pretty soon they'll be telling us what we can and can't do for a living. Our government is getting more and more communist every election it seems.
and here I thought it was just because it was the most well funded
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:40 pm
by DESX
Tikker wrote:Diekan wrote:Tikker wrote:Yamori wrote:Tikker wrote:I actually don't have an issue with mandatory military service for everyone
Unless you feel like going through mandatory military service yourself (any voluntary time doesn't count - we're talking 2 years forced military labor), you should.
I wouldn't have a major problem with it if
everyone in the country was forced to spend their precious time being forced to work against their will.*
That includes 40 year old busy business managers, retired elderly, all the hard working joes and janes, and yes - every damned politician. I'm 100% sure these people would be singing a different tune if their lives were effected.
It sickens me that these fat old cretins feel like they're entitled to toss around human beings' time in whatever way they see fit - like people are just property - simply because they are so-and-so aged.
*Ok I actually would have a problem with it. :P
I really don't see the big deal in having everyone, upon graduation of highschool (or reaching the age of 18) having to spend 2 years in the service
What makes the US military the best in the world is because it's completely voluntary. Forcing service is a bad idea. This is just one more "freedom" the government wants to take away from us. Pretty soon they'll be telling us what we can and can't do for a living. Our government is getting more and more communist every election it seems.
and here I thought it was just because it was the most well funded
By far.
Edit: + we actually do have the best military training possible. Was watching a documentary on the history channel a while ago on special forces. They mentioned an operation were U.S. navy seals and russian spetznaz were involved in working together. The russian commented on how rigoriously the U.S. special forces trained.
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:19 am
by Diekan
DESX wrote:I also don't have any issue with having to serve 2 mandatory years of service. But then again im enlisted anyway so I wouldn't care either way. Marines FTW.
So you wouldn't have a problem with sharing a foxhole with some dude who was FORCED to "be there?" You start forcing people to serve and the quality of the military will take a downward spiral. When you were in school, how much effort did you put into the classes you just didn't give a shit about as opposed to the classes you really liked?
I don't want the government telling the American people they "have" to do anything - including paying taxes, much less forcing them to serve in the military. Fucking government has too much fucking power as is. Why don't we just let them completely run our lives for us and save us the trouble?
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:29 am
by Gargamellow
fuck the draft
i will move to canada so fucking fast...if canada will even let an american over the border right now...how does canada fdeel about all of the crap going on?
ahh well...i will learn so speak french and start watching hockey if they let me in
p.s. i have two sons
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:23 am
by DESX
Diekan wrote:DESX wrote:I also don't have any issue with having to serve 2 mandatory years of service. But then again im enlisted anyway so I wouldn't care either way. Marines FTW.
So you wouldn't have a problem with sharing a foxhole with some dude who was FORCED to "be there?" You start forcing people to serve and the quality of the military will take a downward spiral. When you were in school, how much effort did you put into the classes you just didn't give a shit about as opposed to the classes you really liked?
I don't want the government telling the American people they "have" to do anything - including paying taxes, much less forcing them to serve in the military. Fucking government has too much fucking power as is. Why don't we just let them completely run our lives for us and save us the trouble?
Actually yeah I wouldn't, because just like me if he was getting shot at he would fight for his fucking life no matter if he wanted to or not.
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:31 am
by Tikker
Diekan wrote:DESX wrote:I also don't have any issue with having to serve 2 mandatory years of service. But then again im enlisted anyway so I wouldn't care either way. Marines FTW.
So you wouldn't have a problem with sharing a foxhole with some dude who was FORCED to "be there?" You start forcing people to serve and the quality of the military will take a downward spiral. When you were in school, how much effort did you put into the classes you just didn't give a shit about as opposed to the classes you really liked?
I don't want the government telling the American people they "have" to do anything - including paying taxes, much less forcing them to serve in the military. Fucking government has too much fucking power as is. Why don't we just let them completely run our lives for us and save us the trouble?
bit of a tangent here but, related
do you not think that people should have to do something to earn the right to enjoy the freedoms that their society provides them with?
simplistic example, but look at a union
If i'm in the union, I get XXX salary, YYY benefits, ZZZ job security, but am "forced" to pay union dues
ps, that's just an example don't use your personal views on unions to just ignore the arguement
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:36 am
by Mop
Deiken tho brings up a great point, i had this conversation like 2 weeks ago with a friend in the marines. Thats why I said govt service, not just military
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:19 am
by Tikker
Mop wrote:Deiken tho brings up a great point, i had this conversation like 2 weeks ago with a friend in the marines. Thats why I said govt service, not just military
sure, I'll buy that
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:56 am
by Lueyen
Tikker wrote:do you not think that people should have to do something to earn the right to enjoy the freedoms that their society provides them with?
The idea that people must do something to earn their basic rights is not something that was held by our founding fathers, and is not part of the basic United States ideology if you will. In fact our rights are not granted to us by society or government, they are innate, granted by a higher power then organizations ordained by man. In short you can not earn what is already yours, and society and government are not the ones granting rights and liberties.
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:01 am
by Tikker
Lueyen wrote:Tikker wrote:do you not think that people should have to do something to earn the right to enjoy the freedoms that their society provides them with?
The idea that people must do something to earn their basic rights is not something that was held by our founding fathers, and is not part of the basic United States ideology if you will. In fact our rights are not granted to us by society or government, they are innate, granted by a higher power then organizations ordained by man. In short you can not earn what is already yours, and society and government are not the ones granting rights and liberties.
prove your imaginary friend exists, and then you can say that
until then, it is your government and society that maintains/protects said rights/freedoms
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:16 am
by Eziekial
And that is why, you are not American
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:21 am
by Tikker
so being American requires the belief of a specific god?
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:31 am
by Tacks
Where the fuck did you get that from?
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:48 am
by Lueyen
Tikker wrote:Lueyen wrote:Tikker wrote:do you not think that people should have to do something to earn the right to enjoy the freedoms that their society provides them with?
The idea that people must do something to earn their basic rights is not something that was held by our founding fathers, and is not part of the basic United States ideology if you will. In fact our rights are not granted to us by society or government, they are innate, granted by a higher power then organizations ordained by man. In short you can not earn what is already yours, and society and government are not the ones granting rights and liberties.
prove your imaginary friend exists, and then you can say that
until then, it is your government and society that maintains/protects said rights/freedoms
No I can say that without proving the existance of the divine, the fact is that the founding fathers believed that and the origins of our country were founded on it.
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:50 am
by Ginzburgh