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Arlos wrote:There's differences in degree here. YES I have sympathy for an abused kid who had been fucked over from day 1 and was finally pushed to the snapping point when no one reached out to help him. Does it excuse what he did, no, of course not, no one is saying let him off free and clear. But 30 years given his circumstances seems excessively harsh.

Compare that to those soldiers Martrae mentioned. They killed 4 people, raped a 14 year old girl, and then tried to cover it up. They did it just because, no background reasons at all. They can get out in 5 years.... Why the fuck is what that abused kid did 6 times worse than rape + multiple murder?

-Arlos

Civilian court and military court are two totally different things?

It's almost like comparing a sentence here to another country's sentence to a similar crime.

the UCMJ is a bit different then civilian law. both apply to a soldier

The soldier's punishment should've been much more severe is the only fault I see there; not that the kid should get a lesser sentence.

I think you guys need to think back to when you were 16 - sure it sucks that the kid got abused, that's very sad.. but at 16, I knew what the difference between right and wrong was. I knew that killing a person would and should bear at minimum a life sentence. I knew bringing a gun to school for one was a no no.. shooting people with it was obviously wrong. When I was 16 I was working full time and preparing for life; there's no excuse, aside from mental incapabilities, to not know that killing someone had repercussions.

The fact that they're using him watching a cartoon to display his immaturities and that he can't know the difference between right and wrong is just pathetic, really - I'm 24 and I watch Spongebob - that doesn't mean that I'm emotionally immature and can't comprehend what I do wrong; it means I like the cartoon.

I believe that eventually he can come around, but even if he does, what is he going to do with his life? Even as an adult, good luck getting a job putting on your resume yes I've been convicted of murder - people dont care how old you were when you did something like that - he'll be completely useless in society and live a miserable life. I guarantee his life in jail as an adult will be better than anything he can muster for himself once he's released.

Well that's not exactly true either about the convicted for murder.

It would only show up as a felony charge, he doesn't need to say it was for murder or whatever the charge may be.

Not to say I think he should get out at ANY time in his life, just saying.

He doesn't need to say it, but I'd think it'd be hard to find an employer who would see felony charge on his application and not inquire more about it is what I mean.

This child in prison with the big boys? Yeah, that's justice.

Where's the picture of his principal, you know the victim, in his casket, with his family, you know the family he left behind because mr sad face up there shot him.

I hope he gets buttraped every time his asshole heals for the rest of his meager existence.

He'll be in juvie for the next couple of years before being transfered to Federal Pound Me in the Ass Prison.

Martrae wrote:



This child in prison with the big boys? Yeah, that's justice.

Old enough to intentionally kill someone, old enough to be with the big boys. Yes, that *is* justice.

I agree with Gyps. At 16 i had a full time job, and knew that killing someone would net me life in jail. Hell at age 8 i knew that.

Sad that the kid was beaten his entire life? Yes. Sad that he was exposed to what he was? Yes.

But this kid brought a revolver and a shotgun to school, with the full purpose of killing the principal, if not more. That is pre meditated murder. It is not like he just snapped, grabbed the gun that was laying close to him. No.......he knew what he was doing. He knew killing someone was wrong (i dont care of the upbringing).

Also, Martae you said whats the difference between the soldiers and this. I am going to precursor this by saying this is an explanation...not my belief, or the way i feel about those murders/rape.

The murders/rape case was tried in court as non pre meditated. Which means they did not think of murdering the people before they did the act. This carries a much shorter penalty. Hence why the kid is getting life with parole in 30 years, and the soldiers will be walking in 5.

What the soldiers did was 20X times worse imho. However, their sentence was way to lenient. The kid here is not. He deserves minimum of 30 years in jail. He is a murderer. Period. He devised a plan, and executed it. I would imagine ANYONE on NT if this was their father/son/husband/nephew etc, that got killed by him, you would be screaming for the death penelty. I know i would.

Actually, the soldiers were smarter than this child. They plea bargained their way into lesser sentences even though there was plenty of evidence they did pre-meditate it all.

There's plenty more I could say about this but I'm afraid all the insincere 'it's sucks he was abused' by people who haven't really thought about what that means is a bit too much for me today.

I don't think the soldiers case is something that is even comparable to this - it's horrendously disappointing that those soldiers didn't get punished more, but it is a separate case, separate judge, separate situation.

I am not insincere to abuse - I've had friends and family who were abused and it's a horrible thing to go through - I'm not minimizing that - but it does NOT give me any sense of empathy for his choice to murder someone. It isn't a justification for his actions. It's a choice you make when you wake up in the morning and face the day and what you go through with vengeance toward everyone and making people suffer because you do or with the knowledge that you'll rise above it. It's a choice to pick up a gun and lash out and murder someone. Had the victim of the gunshots been the person who physically abused him I'd feel a lot more sympathy - the man he murdered was the only victim here.

There's only so much a principal of a school can do to help someone - by high school most are beyond this type of help. 16 is plenty old enough to know better - we aren't talking about an uneducated juvenile who has no idea right from wrong. We're talking about a teenager who is old enough to work, old enough to pay taxes, old enough to drive, and old enough to suffer the consequences of such a horrible action.

The soldiers getting 5 years is a side issue, regardless of the reason 5 years isn't justice, and two wrongs don't make it right. Arguing because they got off with a slap on the wrist for a horrible crime means someone else should is flawed, as I'll doubt you'll find anyone here arguing the 5 year sentence was just.


It sounds like life was not kind to him, but that in no way excuses what he did. I'm sorry he's not a modern day Jean Valjean who commits a crime out of survival necessity and is hounded by a legal system with a lopsided scale when it comes to justice and mercy.

"There is very little thought to anything he does," Ricciardi said.

Now this was said as an argument that it wasn't premeditated and while I might find that hard to believe, if we take those words as absolute truth, then we have someone who given the option to consider his actions in depth chose not to think about it much before he started trying to kill people. And we are some how supposed to believe he doesn't present a future danger to society? Sorry if you don't give much thought to anything you do, and as a result murder someone not because there is imminent threat to your life, but because you don't see any other way to solve your problems then I think you are a great candidate for long term detention.

That all being said, I would agree that a chance for parole is reasonable, but I don't have a problem with the mentioned 30 year mandatory. Perhaps in that time he'll learn to lend some thought to actions of this gravity prior to taking them. The only miscarriage of justice I see here is that at the time he moves to a full fledged adult prison, he's likely to encounter a similar situation of being bullied and having a hard life, and that is a tragedy.

Advocate stiffer sentences for people like the before mentioned soldiers, demand a more secure less barbaric prison environment where social aspects mirror what society expects on the outside instead of a barbaric world of mob rule, but don't let him off lightly without making sure he's really not likely to repeat his actions because you feel sorry for his hard life thus far.

Honestly I also feel that his parents should face some responsibility. While I owned and had access to firearms when I was 13, I didn't touch them without first getting permission from my father. Quite frankly if I'd ever given him any reason not to trust me with that responsibility, I likely wouldn't have had them any longer, or at least not had unrestricted access to them with the exception of an honor system where I needed to ask. Then again my father didn't abuse me, and had I incurred problems similar to this young man that I couldn't have reasonably handled on my own, my father would have stepped in and resolved the issue one way or another. This did in fact happen once while I was growing up, and while I would have been able to handle things on my own if it had been left between me and another student, a vice principal decided to intervene in such a way that tied my hands and made me an open target for him. To this day even as an adult I would not want to be on the receiving end of my parents anger as she was. That is the job of a parent, and the parents here failed their son, and society horribly. While they may not be legally accountable, morally it sounds like they are just as much if not more responsible. Failure to protect and nurture their child, and allowing him access to firearms when all evidence points to a complete lack of respect, responsibility, and understanding of them might not be lawful crimes, but they are crimes in my book none the less.

Martrae wrote:



This child in prison with the big boys? Yeah, that's justice.

Yeah maybe we should just kill him. Get out the electirc chair and lets roast him. Atleast he would not be 'tortured' in prison.

I am pretty sure noone here can say "Dont fry this boy!!! He might be innocent'

Putting him in prison isn't justice...it's just more abuse.

And for those of you that are hoping he doesn't retain anal retention....he lost that at 6 when his step-brother repeated raped him.

Would you let him into your house with your kids?

Not alone but if I were there I'd not have too many qualms about it. He needs someone to help him straighten out his head.

No, he needs to be put down like a wild animal who just KILLED A HUMAN BEING IN COLD BLOOD.

Fine....then execute him...don't make him suffer more.

Harrison wrote:No, he needs to be put down like a wild animal who just KILLED A HUMAN BEING IN COLD BLOOD.

To me, this is the easiest thing to feel for this kid. It's easy to hate him blindly and demand justice, it's much more difficult to try and actually help him.

There are people more worthy of sympathy and assistance in this world than a murderer who receive none.

YOU think he is the only kid that ever got picked on???? Murder is bad anyways you put it....
helping him will only open a door to more kids killing people in school because they were picked on...

I agree to a point that the kid needs help, but I dont think any help can be administered until he's gotten punished - aiding and loving the kid is not the way to go initially; that'll simply give the message how sorry we were for his suffering and minimize the suffering that he caused. His head is a mess, yes - but it doesn't matter how demented you are, there isn't a person in the world over the age of 5 who doesn't know what murder is and how it effects people.

Punishment for his crime first, salvaging any sense of humanity he has later.

Gypsiyee wrote:I agree to a point that the kid needs help, but I dont think any help can be administered until he's gotten punished - aiding and loving the kid is not the way to go initially; that'll simply give the message how sorry we were for his suffering and minimize the suffering that he caused. His head is a mess, yes - but it doesn't matter how demented you are, there isn't a person in the world over the age of 5 who doesn't know what murder is and how it effects people.

Punishment for his crime first, salvaging any sense of humanity he has later.

I agree absolutely Gyps. Coddling him will not help him at all. It is very sad that he was kinghootered (butt secksed!) when he was younger. But that does not give him the ability to kill someone, without penalty.