Dr. Watson is "racist"

[Zanchief]

Now your just arguing for the sake of being contrary.

He said (paraphrased) anyone who works with black people would clearly realize their lower mental capacity (stupidity, lack of intelligence, anyway you want to put it). That isn't my interpretation. Those are the words out of his mouth.

Statistical evidence is gathered through...statistics and doesn't relate a cause to the evidence. He's claiming the cause from evidence backed up by his scientific genetic experience. Thing is, he doesn't have any scientific evidence, just correlation and causality.

[Tikker]

what he said was "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours -- whereas all the testing says not really."


the fact that he's a geneticist is causing you to imply he's saying they have the stupid gene

and again, you wouldn't give a shit if he was talking about left handed people

[Zanchief]

what he said was "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours -- whereas all the testing says not really."


the fact that he's a geneticist is causing you to imply he's saying they have the stupid gene

Watson is not the first scientist to show sympathy for the theory of a racial basis for intellectual difference.

Not much of a reader, are you?

I'll continue to ignore the left-handed argument as a gesture of goodwill to a Canadian brother. Sleep on it and you'll realize how apples and oranges it is.

[Arlos]

I like how everyone arguing the racist side of things is blithely ignoring the fact that he's already come out and said that what he said originally was complete bunk and BS. So arguing that he holds those opinions is spurious, as he specifically stated he does not...

-Arlos

[Tikker]

again, you're putting words in his mouth

you're quoting someone else's interpretation of what he said...

you can tell the difference between him saying "blacks are stupid" and someone else saying "watson seems to occasionally say stuff that supports the idea that maybe genetics plays a role in intelligence" ?




at what point do you ignore all evidence that continually shows that left handed people are a certain percentage less intelligent than right handed people?

if it continually tests out that right handed folks are smarter than left handed people, would you not at some point have to conclude that genetics plays a part in that?

[Tikker]

I like how everyone arguing the racist side of things is blithely ignoring the fact that he's already come out and said that what he said originally was complete bunk and BS. So arguing that he holds those opinions is spurious, as he specifically stated he does not...

-Arlos

I'm just pointing out that Zanchief only cares about stuff when something remotely anti-black is mentioned

[Ouchyfish]

Yeah...what Arlos said...




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"I am mortified about what has happened," Watson said. "More importantly, I cannot understand how I could have said what I am quoted as having said.

"I can certainly understand why people, reading those words, have reacted in the ways they have. To all those who have drawn the inference from my words that Africa, as a continent, is somehow genetically inferior, I can only apologize unreservedly. That is not what I meant. More importantly from my point of view, there is no scientific basis for such a belief."

Watson's publicist, Kate Farquhar-Thomson, would not address whether Watson was suggesting he was misquoted. "You have the statement. That's it, I'm afraid," she said.

A spokesman for The Sunday Times said that the interview with Watson was recorded and that the newspaper stood by the story.

Watson's new book also touches on possible racial differences in IQ, though it doesn't go as far as the newspaper interview.

In the book, Watson raises the prospect of discovering genes that significantly affect a person's intelligence.

"...There is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically," Watson wrote. "Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so."

Watson is no stranger to making waves with his scientific views. In 2000, in a speech at the University of California, Berkeley, he suggested that sex drive is related to skin color. "That's why you have Latin lovers," he said, according to people who attended. "You've never heard of an English lover. Only an English patient."

Some years earlier he was quoted in a newspaper as saying, "If you could find the gene which determines sexuality and a woman decides she doesn't want a homosexual child, well, let her."

"Jim has a penchant for making outrageous comments that are basically poking society in the eye," Dr. Francis Collins, director of the National Human Genome Research Institute, said Thursday.

Collins, who has known Watson for a long time, said his latest comments "really ... carried it this time to a much more hurtful level."

In a brief telephone interview, Collins told The AP that Watson's statements are "the wildest form of speculation in a field where such speculation ought not to be engaged in." Genetic factors for intelligence show no difference from one part of the world to another, he said.

Several longtime friends of Watson insisted he's not a racist.

"It's hard for me to buy the label `racist' for him," said Victor McElheny, the author of a 2003 biography of Watson, whom he's known for 45 years. "This is someone who has encouraged so many people from so many backgrounds."

So why does he say things that can sound racist? "I really don't know the answer to that," McElheny said.

Biologist and Nobel laureate Phil Sharp at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who's known Watson since 1971, said, "I've never considered Jim a racist. However, Jim likes to use statistics and observations to provoke people, and it is possible that he is provoking people by these comments."

Calling Watson "one of the great historical scientific figures of our time," Sharp said, "I don't understand why he takes it upon himself to make these statements."

Mike Botchan, co-chair of the molecular and cell biology department at the University of California, Berkeley, who's known Watson since 1970, said the Nobelist's personal beliefs are less important than the impact of what he says.

[Harrison]

Zanchief wishes so fucking bad that he was black. I don't see why.

[Ouchyfish]

My theory is that he has a black gf/wife.

[Zanchief]

Zanchief wishes so fucking bad that he was black. I don't see why.

I just hate racist douchebags like you.

I think it's funny that Finny posted this article to be all "oh the black hypocrisy LULZ!!", but now even the original author has backed out. Proof that your a racist douchebag if we ever needed it (I don't).

[Zanchief]

again, you're putting words in his mouth

No, I'm putting words in his mouth, words that he said.

Lets say in the days where people thought left handed people were wicked we had the means to perform these tests and we found out left handed folks had worse self esteem. You would attribute this to genetics then wouldn't you, Tikker. I mean there's a clear correlation, so finding the cause is simple. No need for actual genetic study.

[Harrison]

No matter what he said, his hand was forced to "back out". That much is evident in anyone who shares the public spotlight in the least.

It's sad that the truth will likely always be covered by the fact that racism is so easily thrown around.

P.S.

There's already 4 "White Entertainment Television" stations. NBC, CBS, ABC, and Fox. Racism is still abound in your country and you chose to dwell on these pettily little issues of reverse racism to comfort yourself in your bigotry.

You're a fucking retard. The SIMPLE fact is that if someone ever created a channel called one of many names including, but not limited to, "White Entertainment Television", they'd be in a fucking uproar over nothing.

[Zanchief]

No matter what he said, his hand was forced to "back out". That much is evident in anyone who shares the public spotlight in the least.

It's sad that the truth will likely always be covered by the fact that racism is so easily thrown around.

The truth did come out. I spelled it out for you, you know, with science and stuff. Feel free to reread it if you ever want to learn something.

You're a fucking retard. The SIMPLE fact is that if someone ever created a channel called one of many names including, but not limited to, "White Entertainment Television", they'd be in a fucking uproar over nothing.

Well I don't think you really understand why there is a BET. That seems to be the greatest misconception here. It's not because of Black Power but more because it represents a demographic that isn't otherwise represented elsewhere. It's the same reason they have a History Channel, a Sci-Fi Channel, Spike (a male channel), a Womens Network, etc...

Caucasians don't represent a demographic so aside from your feigning the victim over nothing, there simply isn't a need for White Television Network since you are already being represented by the vast majority of entertainment. For that reason the single only reason to create such a channel would be out of spite (racial spite). So yes, I would find a White Entertainment Network racist, and superfluous.

[Harrison]

You're easily the most racist person on these boards. The best part is, you'll never be a minority no matter how much you wish for it.

Stop trying to act like you're more intelligent than I am, it's pathetic.

[Zanchief]

My logic has nothing on your rhetoric. I concede. You have bested me with your childish tantrums.

Well played, sir Darkfyre.

[Harrison]

My logic has nothing on your rhetoric. I concede. You have bested me with your childish tantrums.

Well played, sir Darkfyre.

Your "logic" similar to "Caucasians don't represent a demographic"?

[Zanchief]

Feel free to tell me what interest is shared by the vast majority of Caucasians that isn't represented on television.

[Tikker]

Lets say in the days where people thought left handed people were wicked we had the means to perform these tests and we found out left handed folks had worse self esteem. You would attribute this to genetics then wouldn't you, Tikker. I mean there's a clear correlation, so finding the cause is simple. No need for actual genetic study.

that's the dumbest example I've ever seen

[10sun]

Zanchief,

In America, those of African descent score on average a lot lower than those of European ancestry.

Please enlighten me as to why this is.

I'll give you a hint. It is because the levels of melanin production in their skin. Care to argue that?

[Narrock]

Zanchief,

In America, those of African descent score on average a lot lower than those of European ancestry.

Please enlighten me as to why this is.

I'll give you a hint. It is because the levels of melanin production in their skin. Care to argue that?

And that's also why many schools were forced to make their tests "easier" because they just weren't "fair" enough.

[Tikker]

Well I don't think you really understand why there is a BET. That seems to be the greatest misconception here. It's not because of Black Power but more because it represents a demographic that isn't otherwise represented elsewhere. It's the same reason they have a History Channel, a Sci-Fi Channel, Spike (a male channel), a Womens Network, etc...

Caucasians don't represent a demographic so aside from your feigning the victim over nothing,

that's seriously some of the stupidest shit I've ever seen written anywhere

[Arlos]

There is a fair degree of argument about how fair standardized tests are for all takers.

Not to mention, you are completely ignoring the role societal position has to play when attempting to insinuate the racist belief of the inferiority in IQ of people because they happen to be black-skinned. It is a demographic fact that a higher percentage of african americans come from a backgroudn of poverty than happens with caucasians. As a result, their schooling will often be inferior, they may not have gotten all the proper nutrition during the time their mother was pregnant and in their most critical early formative years, they stand a significantly higher chance of living in areas contaminated with toxic pollutants, etc. etc. etc.

A "standardized" test takes none of those sorts of things into account, and is inherently an unfair instrument given the plethora of base states the people taking it are coming from. There is no evidence whatsoever that there is an inherent base intelligence difference between anyone of any race. Environment will, of course play a major role in the development of an individual, but given the same environmental conditions, they will effect all people of all races equally. As well, the native potential intelligence for people is utterly independent of race.

Hell, the man himself said there is no scientific basis whatsoever to say that black people are in any way genetically inferior. I swear, several of the people on this board must have white robes with pointy hoods in their closets or something.

-Arlos

[Lueyen]

I don't see how in the grand scheme of things it really matters. We can all look around and see that regardless of the validity or lack there of, of the claim of genetically linked influences on intelligence, that even if it happens to be the case, it's not as if we have entire races running around with the average intelligence of a dog. When the only jobs or contributions to society are in the proverbial rocket scientist category, then it might matter.

Personally I believe that as a general rule the universe balances it's self in individuals. People with below average ability in one area often times excel in another, or at least have that potential if they choose to use it. This discussion has come up before here, but all that ever is discussed is intelligence. What about physical strength, that too can be measured, and just as the body can be pushed to grow stronger so can the mind. Then of course there are subjective things that are difficult or impossible to test, where are the studies on wisdom testing? I can guarantee you life isn't going to be easy if you have a high IQ, but not an ounce of wisdom.

Personally I think Dr. Watson was trying to setup a situation for his own personal entertainment. Race baiter's and bigots could have a field day on both sides. One side could claim special considerations are needed and sort of an affirmative action in academic testing, and the other side could claim it was reasonable to take a persons race into account when considering things like insurance premiums and job openings. IE here is a man in his latter years stirring the pot for his own entertainment, he probably already accepted that he would get dirty in the process.

[Harrison]

Affirmative action is fucking disgusting.

[Zanchief]

Zanchief,

In America, those of African descent score on average a lot lower than those of European ancestry.

This is true.

Please enlighten me as to why this is.

Because, on average, they grow in poorer areas which don't enforce education. This is specualtion, but you can come up with any number of reasons. These correlations are based on environment and not (this is the important part) based on genetics.

I'll give you a hint. It is because the levels of melanin production in their skin. Care to argue that?

Thanks for the hint~