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Drem wrote:
are we talkin about current players only or just players that deserve it period?

it's pretty tough to say right now. there are a few long time players and you just listed a few of the ones i'd pick. honestly i feel like after the strike and everything that baseball's kind of re-invigorated and there are a lot more prospects and minor leaguers that came out of nowhere. i don't know very many solid standbies right now, just a bunch of new people that are trying to make a name for themselves

to do this list correclty we need to follow BBWAA and pick players for each position. so, my picks would be:

pitcher: C.C. Sabathia

relief pitcher: Brad Lidge or Francisco Rodriguez

catcher: Geovany Soto

1st: Pujols or Lance Berkman

2nd: Dustin Pedroia for sure

SS: Michael Young or Hanley Ramirez.... maybe even Jose Reyes

3rd: A Rod would probably get it, but I think David Wright from the Mets is better

right field: Magglio Ordonez because i'm a Tigers fanboi.... tho in reality Ryan Ludwick would be the best prospect

center: Curtis Granderson! Another Tiger! but really probably Carlos Beltran

left: Manny unfortunately. not due to his defensive abilities. I'd also bet on Matt Holliday

DH: David Ortiz, Jim Thome, Aubrey Huff, dunno. that's a hard one to judge



as far as people that just deserve it.... Goose Gossage should be in there for sure

[/baseball]

This list makes me . Perhaps 90% of those guys will one day belong in the hall, the only players that if retired today, on that list, would be in ....

Jim Thome, Manny Ramirez, Arod and Pujols. Ill give you a list later today.

um yeah that's kinda why i stopped posting. i don't know anything about baseball except what's happened in the last few years since i started liking it again

Just acouple of players off the top of my head......

Mariano Rivera
Arod
Derek Jeter (grr this pains me)
Manny Ramirez
Jim Thome
Ken Griffey JR.
John Smoltz
Tom Glavine (borderline)
Greg Maddux
Albert Pujols (still needs more honestly)
Randy Johnson
Trevor Hoffman

Outside Chances or Question Marks
Roger Clemens
Barry Bonds
Andy Pettite (real outside shot)
Jeff Kent (one of the most prolific offensive second basemen)
Omar Vizquel

That probably is about it as far as baseball. Ill probably think of one or two more.

Bonds and Clemens would be shoe-ins if not for the whole steroids thing.

Seriously, though, should that matter?

Yes, I know, the whole "why reward cheating" argument.

Well, the electors to the hall elected Gaylord Perry, knowing that he constantly cheated by doctoring baseballs, by roughing them up, spitballs, etc. etc. etc. I am sure any number of other known serious cheaters could be found in the hall at even a casual survey. So, it would seem that cheating isn't exactly a bar to inclusion in the hall.

Another argument could be made against Bonds in that he's generally an asshole. While I concede the point, I can in turn point to, say, Ty Cobb, whose assholishness so far eclipsed Bonds' as to make Bonds seem a choirboy. Yet there's no question about Cobb's Hall-worthiness. And I submit that Bonds' offensive numbers are so outstanding as to be in the same category of beyond the pale as Cobb's numbers.

Indeed, ever since the Black Sox scandal, the one cardinal sin that absolutely excludes people is betting on the game of baseball, especially on your own team. That's why Pete Rose isn't in there.

So, given that Bonds never bet on baseball, and while he is an asshole, and almost certainly cheated, neither of those has, in the past, been any bar to Hall entry. Therefore, by what standard SHOULD he be excluded?

-Arlos

Oh i agree 100% about Bonds and Clemens. I am one of the biggest advocates of allowing both in. However that list is comprised of how "Hall of fame voters" , would vote. I also think Big Mac should be in there as well, and possibly Sammy Sosa.

The hall is full of cheaters, hell the game of baseball has been probably the biggest cheating sport ever.

ty cobb greatest player ever

Paul Pierce

As for hockey, I can't believe I forgot Rob Blake. He's been dominant, he's got a Norris trophy, and has a couple cups on his resume. Pretty sure he'll get in.

-Arlos

Arlos wrote:As for hockey, I can't believe I forgot Rob Blake. He's been dominant, he's got a Norris trophy, and has a couple cups on his resume. Pretty sure he'll get in.

-Arlos

You only include Blake because he's playing for the Sharks this year


He's been a good defenseman for a long time, but I'm not sure I'd put him in the Hall

Heh, him playing for the Sharks is why I couldn't believe I didn't remember him before. Still, he was always a marquee defenseman, even going back to his earlier days with the Kings.

Anyway, he's certainly kicking ass with the Sharks this year. heh.

-Arlos