namelesstavern.net

Narrock wrote:

brinstar wrote:cain's "plan" is designed to do what virtually every other politician's "plan" is designed to do, and that is to give kickbacks to the wealthy donors who fund their campaigns at everyone else's expense. if you somehow think this is not the case (and has been for a long time) then you are sorely mistaken or hoping to get in on the deal.


ModNote: Edited slightly for politeness.

I listened to what every candidate says. Bottom line is that most of them are just politicians and it's always a crap shoot as to what they actually do once they get elected, and we can only hope that they won't cave in to special interest groups who pad their pockets, ie failprezbarry. Do I believe that a Cain/Romney ticket would be America's savior? No, BUT so far, those two candidates will give me at least 70% of what America needs. The other candidates less than that, and any demorat will give us roughly 20% of what we need.

see, but they don't even bother making a show of holding out against special interest groups' influence anymore. cain's 999 plan is pretty obvious proof of that - why bother waiting until i get elected, might as well start pandering to big finance now and skip all the theatrics!

the problem is bigger than that, though. picture a two-person rowboat. a long time ago, the two-party system simply consisted of two groups who both wanted to improve our nation but whose ideas didn't always line up. out of good faith, they worked together to overcome those differences and actually govern the people - they made mistakes, yes, but they also had plenty of triumphs. moving forward was always the ideal, and even though the party in power might row harder, they still made some actual forward progress. fast forward to now, and what do you see? whichever party is not in power simply stops rowing - or in the case of the teabaggers, actually starts rowing in the opposite direction - and then blames the party in power for not getting anything done! wtf, what madness is this?

so for me, an admittedly liberal person who bases his political convictions upon compassion for fellow humans, a sense of justice tempered by dignity, and a deep appreciation for the planet we're all stuck on together, i am continually presented with two choices. i can pick a donkey who promises good things, actually does maybe a third of them, and then shits all over the people the rest of the time - or i can pick an elephant that makes no secret of its intent to shit all over the people. in all honesty, i've reached a point where neither option is good enough for me, and i am very angry about it.

which actually brings me to the #occupy movement. cain and cantor and bloomberg don't fucking get it at all (big surprise there ), and in order to pander to the idiots they've duped, are trying to wave it away as some sort of obama-engineered distraction sideshow. but if you look at what they're really upset about, it's actually all of the above. the late george carlin summed it up the best:



yeah yeah, i know - LOL YUOTUEB - but the man speaks truth. "it's a big club, and you ain't in it." he said this shit in 2005, three whole years before the very practices and corruption he was railing against crashed our economy. and if the article i read the other day is anywhere close to the truth, expect it to happen again before the year is out. first greece, then the rest of the EU, then the wave will cross the pond and wipe us out again.

i am continually presented with two choices. i can pick a donkey who promises good things, actually does maybe a third of them, and then shits all over the people the rest of the time - or i can pick an elephant that makes no secret of its intent to shit all over the people. in all honesty, i've reached a point where neither option is good enough for me, and i am very angry about it.

Ya know brinstar I really could not agree with that more.

ITT: mindia disagrees with everyone, as usual

i have yet to meet anyone IRL that has opinions like he does. is this just a joke, or do you guys talk to people like this a lot? even in my line of work nobody just goes out of their way to say shit this backasswards. ever. blows my mind


ModNote: Slight edit for politeness.
Additional note: Most everyone is behaving great, but this is edit 3 in 2 days, patience is starting to wear thin. Word to the wise. That is all.

Oh arlos theres like 10 of us left you should just let us insult one another in peace . Im sure brinstars post was better before you fixed it for him.

for the record, the above post (featuring mr. carlin) is the most directly and non-confrontation i've spoken to him in years

brinstar wrote:for the record, the above post (featuring mr. carlin) is the most directly and non-confrontation i've spoken to him in years

I agree, and will respond later, also in a non-confrontational manner...

btw i was right

the Tax Policy Center analyzed the laughable 9-9-9 plan and found that it would indeed cut taxes for the rich and raise them for the poor

fuck cain and fuck 9-9-9 and fuck anyone stupid enough to fall for it

brinstar wrote:btw i was right

the Tax Policy Center analyzed the laughable 9-9-9 plan and found that it would indeed cut taxes for the rich and raise them for the poor

fuck cain and fuck 9-9-9 and fuck anyone stupid enough to fall for it

That's not entirely true. The "poor" still pay payroll tax and social security tax, so to say that the poor don't pay taxes is what is completely laughable. They pay appriximately 18% now. Cain's 9-9-9 plan is NOT going to add another 9% to that, it's going to replace the current tax code that everybody pays right now. So any increase the poor *might* have to pay over what comes out of their paycheck currently will be miniscule. Also, there is no corporate tax right now, and under Cain, they will have to start paying 9% tax. To say "fuck Cain and his 9-9-9 plan, blah blah blah" is a totally ignorant and disingenuous statement. Check your math and "facts" again.

how about you go read the article

brinstar wrote:how about you go read the article

Your first mistake is believing anything National Propaganda Radio says.

brinstar wrote:how about you go read the article

While I'm not a Cain fan, I read your article and it's inaccurate and the authors did not bother to read Cain's plan.

The 9-9-9 plan exempts from any tax people below the poverty line.

Narrock wrote:

brinstar wrote:how about you go read the article

Your first mistake is believing anything National Propaganda Radio says.

while I think calling NPR a propagandist outlet is more than slightly misguided, I'll go ahead and omit that statement. even if you don't want to read the article, you could at least read the links to the non-partisan tax policy center for the analysis from which the article was formulated. http://taxpolicycenter.org/numbers/disp ... ocTypeID=1

and lyion, the authors of the article are merely showcasing the analysis from the tax policy center. rest assured that they did indeed analyze his plan since that's the whole premise of what they do.

I'd love to know how the poor are paying more when they don't pay any taxes under Cain's program....

Lyion wrote:I'd love to know how the poor are paying more when they don't pay any taxes under Cain's program....

Where have you seen information that the poor will pay 0 taxes? I have no idea where you're getting that from.

In defense of his plan, he insisted that they will not pay more than they already do, not that they will not pay any. Even Cain has never said that they won't pay any taxes, but independent analysis (from multiple non-partisan sources) shows that his statement that they won't pay more isn't true either.

Narrock wrote:

brinstar wrote:how about you go read the article

Your first mistake is believing anything National Propaganda Radio says.

Then don't bother reading the fucking article itself, Jesus Christ. Here is the Tax Policy Center's analysis, and below are graphs created from it. This is not some Democrat conspiracy to discredit the man, I refuse to shill for those fuckers - but the GOP's base is being throated here and they're loving every gagging second of it.

Gypsiyee wrote:

Lyion wrote:I'd love to know how the poor are paying more when they don't pay any taxes under Cain's program....

Where have you seen information that the poor will pay 0 taxes? I have no idea where you're getting that from.
.

I got it from the plan itself. It uses a refundable exemption system from the point paper, which it's apparent the tax study people did not bother to read. They themselves said they assumed a ton in that study and did not have the 'facts' to accurately evaluate the plan.

http://www.hermancain.com/docs/999_Scoring_Report.pdf

As an aside, I have zero interest in this plan as it introduces a VAT, i.e. Natl Sales Tax, which is the real kiss of death of business growth in this country.

Well that's not entirely true--they said they had to make some assumptions due to insufficient data that wasn't available. TPC is an analysis organization.. they take everything they have readily available to create their analyses, they're not going to skew it to favor one candidate or the other. He mentions the refunds but has little to no details on the actual implementation of it, so I wouldn't chalk that up to them just making stuff up as they go. He got into specifics on a number of things, but that wasn't one of them. I'm not a tax guru, so I certainly won't presume to know all the details that went into their study, but in full disclosure they stated what they had insufficient information on which leaves the door open for Cain to further clarify. We're not talking about a liberal rag here.. we're talking about dissection from a highly reputable tax analysis organization.

I will say that I think there are a number of ideas in his plan that I think are bonkers. Exempting businesses from sales tax, for example.. that's opening a flood gate for abuse. Eliminating capital gains and estate taxes is dangerous, too.

Implementing some of the taxes he has planned on a federal level is also going to be problematic in certain areas(especially states like Virginia, for example) so we agree on that. Cain also calls this phase 1.. so what's phase 2? He's a proponent of the fair tax, afaik, and if that's the case, there are so many unanswered questions in his plan. He talks about it as if it's a very simple plan, but implementation of it would be a lot more complex than he leads on due to the way traditional sales taxes are calculated etc.

It's all good and well to make your tax plan catchy and well advertised, and it's nice to imagine a world with lower taxes for all too.. but regardless of the impact on the lower class, it's pretty obvious the plan puts a ton of money back into wealthy pockets and imo, with the debt and deficit as it already is I think a plan like his would bankrupt us. I mean, I applaud him for taking the effort to actually lay something out on the table, but to me it seems like it's still really raw and not ready enough to promote.

Wow. Creepiest campaign commercial EVER.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qhm-22Q0PuM[/youtube]


I love Stephen Colbert's response to it, though:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... ampaign-ad


In all seriousness, that add is going to freak a lot of people out. Oh, and for the record, I laughed my ass off at the way that fox news anchor (at 2:56 of the Colbert clip) phrased that oh so hard-hitting question to the Cain staffer.... rofl. Sorry Mindia, but according to her, you're not a REAL American, because you don't like cigarettes. *laugh* (Not slamming you, man, just the fox wench. Not at all a fan of cigarettes either. Obviously therefore, I'm apparently not a real American either.... rofl) Oh, and is it just me, or at the end of the ad, is Herman Cain the spitting image of this famous internet meme:


-Arlos

Dave Letterman remarked that Herman Cain's campaign manager, while standing there smoking his cigarette, evoked the image of the archetypal 'adult bookstore' owner. "The movies are in the back, behind the curtain."

Spazz wrote:

i am continually presented with two choices. i can pick a donkey who promises good things, actually does maybe a third of them, and then shits all over the people the rest of the time - or i can pick an elephant that makes no secret of its intent to shit all over the people. in all honesty, i've reached a point where neither option is good enough for me, and i am very angry about it.

Ya know brinstar I really could not agree with that more.

Same boat here.

I like being told you're about to fuck me in the ass. At least I can relax my butthole first...

Voting sucks

Arlos wrote:Wow. Creepiest campaign commercial EVER.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qhm-22Q0PuM[/youtube]


I love Stephen Colbert's response to it, though:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... ampaign-ad


In all seriousness, that add is going to freak a lot of people out. Oh, and for the record, I laughed my ass off at the way that fox news anchor (at 2:56 of the Colbert clip) phrased that oh so hard-hitting question to the Cain staffer.... rofl. Sorry Mindia, but according to her, you're not a REAL American, because you don't like cigarettes. *laugh* (Not slamming you, man, just the fox wench. Not at all a fan of cigarettes either. Obviously therefore, I'm apparently not a real American either.... rofl) Oh, and is it just me, or at the end of the ad, is Herman Cain the spitting image of this famous internet meme:


-Arlos

Colbert strikes again. What a once in a lifetime genius.

Herman Cain is an idiot.

araby wrote:Herman Cain is an idiot.

From the mouth of babes.

third woman comes forward with claims that the hermanator sexually harassed her during his time at NRA

other credible (republican!) witnesses corroborate; one even wonders aloud why it took so long for the story to break

IS THIS GUY IMPRESSIVE OR WHAT?