namelesstavern.net

Jay wrote:Ganzo I know how you feel man. You think it's wrong that the bible is labeled fiction rather than religion and that it's disrespectful. I think this thread should be labeled holy discussion rather than cap's alehouse and I feel your pain now. These guys just don't get it bro.

Seriously bro? Sack up. Ganzo and Harrison turned this thread nasty. Reread. I made one joke about Battlefield earth and then the profanities started. I even provided a link to a thread where Ganzo basically stated that Christianity was a crock of shit.

Grow a pair.

Lol bigotry is only applicable when some nutless nobody deems it so

I see now.

Just do me a favor and follow your logic. Those who don't believe the bible is factual are bigots without saying anything of the people who believe it? That means you're a bigot if you don't believe in Pegan worship, Greek gods, Xenu, and everything other belief structure that has ever existed. Simply having an analytical approach to anything related to belief is bigotry?

This is what you're saying Harrison? Drop the lols and the emoticons and join an adult conversation. You are an adult now aren't you?

This isn't a discussion. This isn't intellectual debate.

It's people assaulting a belief system with a false sense of superiority. It's the very definition of bigotry.

...intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

Rhetoric. Have any substance?

And we were getting along for a while. I kind of felt you were turning a corner.

Harrison wrote:This isn't a discussion. This isn't intellectual debate.

It's people assaulting a belief system with a false sense of superiority. It's the very definition of bigotry.

...intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

i don't necessarily think you're wrong, but i do think you're missing the underlying discussion. though some things have been said in this thread which are disrespectful (tikker, zanchief) to those who hold certain beliefs (ganzo), underneath all that the real discussion here is centered on the nature of the bible as a book. some serious questions have been raised, and none of them have been answered.

1) absent a "religious" book section, which section DOES the bible belong in? and why? what's the justification?

2) if you feel the bible is nonfiction, then mustn't the quran, the book of mormon, the BG, the tao te ching, etc all be nonfiction as well? after all, if you think YOUR holy book is nonfiction and all the rest are fiction, doesn't that pretty much fit the definition of bigotry you pasted word for word?

3) does calling it nonfiction make it nonfiction? who gets to decide? what if i start calling mary shelley's Frankenstein nonfiction? "how dare you put this in the fiction section, it's what i BELIEVE!"

4) what about those such as myself, who consider the bible to be fiction but try to follow its message anyway? why can't this be an option? if you really believe in your heart, why does it matter what section costco puts your holy book in?

.

sauce yourself bitch

2) if you feel the bible is nonfiction, then mustn't the quran, the book of mormon, the BG, the tao te ching, etc all be nonfiction as well? after all, if you think YOUR holy book is nonfiction and all the rest are fiction, doesn't that pretty much fit the definition of bigotry you pasted word for word?

I hope this wasn't directed at me.

I don't give two shits about Christianity, Mormonism(is it even called that?), Islam, or the religions in general.

I enjoy learning about them because they affect massive portions of the daily lives of billions of people but, I don't give two fucks about them. At all. I don't care if you make fun of them.

I don't have a horse in this race in that sense. I'm just pointing out the hilarity of some people jumping on my thread for "racism" and then coming to a different thread and attacking Christianity, simultaneously.

all of those questions were for everybody. i was just trying to point out that there's nothing bigoted about treating one religion the same as any other religion.

It was after I was quoted, so I just assumed...

I'm the furthest thing from religious without being a douchebaggy militant atheist.

Harrison wrote:I don't have a horse in this race in that sense. I'm just pointing out the hilarity of some people jumping on my thread for "racism" and then coming to a different thread and attacking Christianity, simultaneously.

Race is something you are born with and is immutable and unchangeable, nor is it something you have a choice in. Making insults about people based on that is bigotry.

Religion is something you CHOOSE to believe in. You may have been raised to believe in it, but it is still a learned behavior/belief, and not something innate to a person like the color of their skin, hair color, etc.

Insulting someone for what they are, strictly based on race is bigotry. Insulting a belief system that is a voluntary choice is an entirely different thing. THAT is why things you have posted are bigoted, and attacking the bible is not. What has been posted here may be OFFENSIVE, but that's not even remotely the same thing as bigoted.

-Arlos

This thread is so on par with all the hipsters who are too cool to, ya know, comprehend faith or philosophy versus science and disproving things. Mindia is bad. Except when he's you, I guess.

Arlos wrote:Removed fucknuts changing my quote to attibute something to me I don't believe. Stop it, dickwad -voice of mod

Let's throw some flame on the fire, since being gay has nothing to with what one is and is not scientifically shown at all to be anything but a choice.

Arlos wrote:

Harrison wrote:I don't have a horse in this race in that sense. I'm just pointing out the hilarity of some people jumping on my thread for "racism" and then coming to a different thread and attacking Christianity, simultaneously.

Race is something you are born with and is immutable and unchangeable, nor is it something you have a choice in. Making insults about people based on that is bigotry.

Religion is something you CHOOSE to believe in. You may have been raised to believe in it, but it is still a learned behavior/belief, and not something innate to a person like the color of their skin, hair color, etc.

Insulting someone for what they are, strictly based on race is bigotry. Insulting a belief system that is a voluntary choice is an entirely different thing. THAT is why things you have posted are bigoted, and attacking the bible is not. What has been posted here may be OFFENSIVE, but that's not even remotely the same thing as bigoted.

-Arlos

Translation: "I'm not bigoted because I said so."

Religion is still a protected status in this country. So until this changes you're just as bigoted as the cross-burning KKK, homophobes, and whatever else.

You just don't want to admit it. Denial doesn't change that fact, though.

brinstar wrote:i don't necessarily think you're wrong, but i do think you're missing the underlying discussion. though some things have been said in this thread which are disrespectful (tikker, zanchief) to those who hold certain beliefs (ganzo), underneath all that the real discussion here is centered on the nature of the bible as a book. some serious questions have been raised, and none of them have been answered.

WTF? What did I say that was disrespectful? That's the second time you take a jab at me. I said it was hilarious that costco labeled something fictitious? I didn't even comment on if it should be just that it was hilarious (which it is).

Dear lord, what the hell happened to this place. I've seen sterner talk from just about any thread. That's what passes for bigotry?

By the way, I never once said anything about anyone who holds those beliefs (you may note), only that the beliefs themselves were not founded on fact (which is true by every measurable metric).

So, Brinstar, go fuck yourself (apparently that's how good religious folk act).

Lyion wrote:This thread is so on par with all the hipsters who are too cool to, ya know, comprehend faith or philosophy versus science and disproving things. Mindia is bad. Except when he's you, I guess.

So who exactly is a hipster in this thread? I notice Arlos, Brinstar and myself are the only ones who have even attempted to take this thread seriously.

Mind saying something meaningful instead of posting a picture that is completely irrelevant? Who was that acting like Mindia?

I figured everyone else was Trolling and being unserious, I was just joining the fun.

I don't hide the fact I'm Catholic. Ganzo doesn't hide the fact he's Jewish. I don't think either one of us are in your face with that, but the reverse sure is true here.

Harrison wrote:

2) if you feel the bible is nonfiction, then mustn't the quran, the book of mormon, the BG, the tao te ching, etc all be nonfiction as well? after all, if you think YOUR holy book is nonfiction and all the rest are fiction, doesn't that pretty much fit the definition of bigotry you pasted word for word?

I hope this wasn't directed at me.

I don't give two shits about Christianity, Mormonism(is it even called that?), Islam, or the religions in general.

I enjoy learning about them because they affect massive portions of the daily lives of billions of people but, I don't give two fucks about them. At all. I don't care if you make fun of them.

I don't have a horse in this race in that sense. I'm just pointing out the hilarity of some people jumping on my thread for "racism" and then coming to a different thread and attacking Christianity, simultaneously.

As long as those beliefs aren't traditional agnostic or atheistic, then bigotry away...

Lyion wrote:I figured everyone else was Trolling and being unserious, I was just joining the fun.

I don't hide the fact I'm Catholic. Ganzo doesn't hide the fact he's Jewish. I don't think either one of us are in your face with that, but the reverse sure is true here.

It really isn't. None of the none religious people ever create threads or start topics on religion. I know I sure don't. I think you guys live in a very different climate. I don't even classify myself as an atheist, because that would require I make a decision in the subject. Where I live, and who I live with is so secular, religion is just not a thing that factors in my life at all. When I seem condescending about, its for that reason. It just surprises me sometime. It would be like when everyone stops talking about a band then a few years goes by and someones like "Hey guys, Sugar Ray is pretty awesome eh?" It's just kind of like really?

Last comment obviously facetious, but you get my point.

Curious though how you think you're not in your face with your religion when you have never avoided a religious discussion here on NT and have always made the same dismissive, "none-faith is a fad" comments. Isn't your derision of other peoples (none) belief the same as others derision of your own (see you picture for proof)?

Anytime anything remotely religious is brought up, many people here pretty much do their darndest to be anti faith cocksuckers. I used to discuss my opinions but I can't remember ever overtly insulting atheists or agnostics. I won't anymore because this board really is full of people just like that picture. Many here are the atheist equivalent to the Westboro Baptist Church, which is fine and dandy and obviously not confrontational to you since you share their views.

I find atheists to be the most obnoxiously loudest religious group, by far.

They never shut the fuck up about it.

I have asked that already once and was ignored.

There are three categories of books at my local Costco. Fiction, Non-Fiction, and Children's.
How is the Bible not fiction given those three categories?

For it to be non-fiction, the stories would all be faithful accounts of actual events.

Jonah? Balaam & his Donkey? Jacob's fix for striped cows? Seriously?

How is this any more implausible than The Iliad?

Does putting the Iliad in fiction assault an entire protected group's belief system as a publicly traded company?

No?

Oh, well, fuck. Now what are we going to argue about?

Lyion wrote:

Arlos wrote:Lyion's changed quote

Let's throw some flame on the fire, since being gay has nothing to with what one is and is not scientifically shown at all to be anything but a choice.

Actually, everything I've seen shows there to be more and more evidence showing it IS an inherited trait. Sure, some people choose it of their own accord, just like some people train themselves out of being left-handed.

Also, stop fucking changing my quotes and attributing them to me, you goddamn cocksucking assclown. We had this go-around once already.

Lastly, show me where I attacked anyone? I merely stated a definitional difference between bigotry and being offensive. No matter what else you can say about religion, it *IS* a choice. You make the choice to believe and have faith. It is possible to change your belief. It is not possible to change being Asian, Black, Hispanic, etc. Doesn't mean attacking people strictly on the basis of being Christian, Muslim, Pastafarian, etc. is acceptable behavior, but it is NOT the same thing as being bigoted.

-Arlos