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Tossica wrote:Monks were not ALWAYS a part of D&D. They were added many years later.

1974 - "Dungeons & Dragons"
The most memorable published result of the Arneson-Gygax hobby crossover appeared at GenCon, 1974, in a thousand-copy print run, as Dungeons & Dragons, 1974, by Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson. It consisted of three roughly digest-sized brown pamphlets in a deepish brown box with white labels in a thousand-copy print run, as Dungeons & Dragons

The Sixth printing (OCE: 1977-1979), in a white box showing a wizard and some orcs, was labeled "Original Collector’s Edition" to differentiate it from the D&D Basic Set, which had just been released.

The "Basic Set" was reportedly "Developed chiefly because of disagreements with Gary Gygax over the direction D&D should take; Gygax favored a far more structured and complicated system (AD&D)."


The Expert set was released in 1981 as the obvious sequel to the D&D Basic Set, which left characters hanging at level 3. For characters levels 4 - 14. The Basic and Expert sets are sometimes referred to as "red-box" and "blue-box" D&D.

The AD&D books were first published between 1977 and 1979.

(Note that is was not named "1st Edition" until after the 2nd Edition came out in the late 1980s.)

AD&D had multiple printings; after the 10th printing, the books got new covers. The Players Handbook 2nd cover (10th printing) is shown at right (Hardback 1987; TSR2010)

Now, neither of you were playing in 1974, AD&D is fucking D&D as its THE packaging of the product from its creator, the ADVANCED was to differentiate it from BASIC, and the monk class was in before Basic D&D went past level 3, and monks were incorproated into the game in 1977, soon after the game was released.

He might've played BASIC D&D, compared to the ADVANCED D&D set, but both were fucking D&D.

Christ, it's like arguing a plymouth isn't a plymouth because it has SE on the end of it's name.

No....

AD&D has a different ruleset than D&D, the monsters and adventures that were "D&D" did not translate well into AD&D. Remember, D&D was a simple ruleset when compared to AD&D. When D&D came out there were no monks in this "simple" ruleset. I am not sure when they were added but I think it was after 1980, but by then I was only playing AD&D.

When AD&D came out in like 1978 or 79, that did have monks in the game from the outset, however. I remember playing one and thinking they were awesome because of the quivering palm.

Now, AD&D and D&D have always been seperate games with similar themes from the same publisher (TSR). But they were seperate games. You could not place an AD&D character into a D&D campaign setting, nor could you place a D&D character into a AD&D game. Back in the early 80s if you said you played D&D the next question was: Do you use a players handbook? If you did it was AD&D you played, if you didnt it was D&D and most people that played AD&D laughed at the people that played D&D because it was for dumber people.

Dragon Magazine used to place articles for both AD&D and D&D at first but eventually switched over to AD&D completely after the popularity of AD&D skyrocketed compared to D&D. Sorry Lyion, but AD&D and D&D were not the same game.

Ok...so which one is the online version based on?

Zanathar, that's simply not true. Yes, the ORIGINAL D&D that they penned was a bit different, but then neither is a muffler for a Pontiac Car today compatible with a Pontiac car from the 60s. They are BOTH Pontiacs, however. In your mind a new car isn't from the same family, but guess what? It is.

AD&D was the ongoing morphing of the original project into a newer revision. The CURRENT version which is SIMPLY called Dungeons & Dragons is based off of AD&D, with upgrades.

AD&D was an UPGRADED version of rules created from the original by Gary Gygax which was unfinished shortly after its release.

In the late 70s there was the OCE: D&D, Basic D&D, and Advanced D&D. They were all D&D, despite your bizarre spin that an upgrade isn't part of the family.

Mar, the games were all based on the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons ruleset, and not the Basic Dungeons & Dragons rules, or the OCE Dungeons & Dragons one. The current ruleset for Dungeons & Dragons is derivative from Gary Gygax's work. OCE to Advanced D&D to Current D&D 3, 3.5, 4 etc

In your mind a 286 isn't a PC because it won't play Doom 3. That does not change the fact it is still a Personal Computer.

Lyion wrote:They might not have Monks, but they are and have always been a part of D&D.

THIS STATEMENT IS WRONG!!!

Jesus christ, will you shut the fuck up already?

I have proven to you how it's not wrong.

Either provide something to debate, or get the fuck outta dodge.

Zan at least provided an opinion that the second revision of D&D that Gary Gygax rolled out, you know the guy who CREATED the first, wasn't compatible. I disagree. Make a point or concede you suck and I rule.

Hello Mcfly.

Let me ask you a simple question.

What were the 3 available classes in the original Dungeon and Dragons game?

*hint* Monk is not one of them.



This is ridiculous...

No, it wasn't. I never said it was. It came out in version 2, roughly 2 1/2 years after the original Dungeons and Dragons was released.

The first revision came out in 1974, it was not mainstream. They redid and upgraded it a few times, until the FULL second revision from Gygax released that included monks and was mainstream. You said it was many years until monk was released. You were wrong.


Gygax created D&D VERSION 1. 2 1/2 years later he releases version 2 with MONKs.

That is a fact.

Haha

We must be really fucking bored ya know, Toss....

My D&D can beat up your D&D

Warhammer > D&D

I recently got this choose your own adventure game called Scourge of Worlds..it is pretty cool but didn't have enough to entertain me. My kids love it, though. So it was a good purchase IMO.

P.S. I don't know much about the rules of dnd...but i have played it about 30 times and i am more than just a little bit pissed that tiefoon would never let me have Jerry Garcia in a Pouch.

ok, day 2.

I was wrong in that monks were not in the ORIGINAL D&D (OCE). That was not what I meant to say, and I couldn't convey that and yet win this Epeen battle, and up my status with the herd. The first books/compendiums and releases had monks, just not the mainstream OCE release.

But I still stand behind my monks were there from early on!

This thread makes me reminisce of college pizza parties and beer with tabletop sessions..

Regardless...

Rogues were not in D&D yet they will be in D&D online. Monks COULD be in there just as well as rogues.

NERD FIGHT!

Taxx wrote:NERD FIGHT!

Ouch, truth hurts.

Rule 1 - No pocket protectors

Rule 2 - Glasses stay on

Rule 3 - No hitting in the face

Rule 4 - No closed fists

FIGHT!