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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:24 pm
by Yamori
I'd post my opinion, but I fear it being shattered by lumpy's mighty philosophical prowess. We are helpless and tremble before the incisions of his knife of skepticism.
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:46 pm
by Lyion
A collective soul actually isn't necessarily against Catholic/Christian Dogma.
People inaccurately label Heaven and Hell places, instead of thinking in abstract.
In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him.
"Incorporeal things are not in place after a manner known and familiar to us, in which way we say that bodies are properly in place; but they are in place after a manner befitting spiritual substances, a manner that cannot be fully manifest to us."
So, essentially heaven is being with God. The light, whatever you care to define it.
Hell could easily be equated with nullness, or nonbeing. So that one would truly be dead and gone then. Or in Ganzo's words, you are enroute to Sheol and darkness.
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:48 pm
by DangerPaul
Lyion wrote:A collective soul actually isn't necessarily against Catholic/Christian Dogma.
People inaccurately label Heaven and Hell places, instead of thinking in abstract.
In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him.
"Incorporeal things are not in place after a manner known and familiar to us, in which way we say that bodies are properly in place; but they are in place after a manner befitting spiritual substances, a manner that cannot be fully manifest to us."
So, essentially heaven is being with God. The light, whatever you care to define it.
Hell could easily be equated with nullness, or nonbeing. So that one would truly be dead and gone then
I didn't read any of this shit, just answer your fucking PM, you asshole hippy liberal dueche.
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:53 pm
by Spacewoman Spiff
DangerPaul wrote:dueche.
douche.
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:54 pm
by DangerPaul
thanks baby
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:57 pm
by Harrison
Yamori wrote:I'd post my opinion, but I fear it being shattered by lumpy's mighty philosophical prowess. We are helpless and tremble before the incisions of his knife of skepticism.
It's common fucking sense.
None of us will know for sure until we die. I laugh at atheists openly. They are morons for arrogantly declaring they know without a doubt there is no God or higher power/deity.
Less so at religious folk, they have belief... Not falsely claimed knowledge.
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:09 pm
by Diabolik
Harrison wrote:Less so at religious folk, they have belief... Not falsely claimed knowledge.
Because I've NEVER seen an arrogant religious person who thinks he has all the answers.
You're a Bible humper in a bad disguise.
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:21 pm
by Harrison
Mindia does not count.
Neither does anyone claiming they know anything.
I don't believe in the validity of the bible and the words within written by man either. Nice try though. (not really, moron)
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:31 pm
by Narrock
Harrison wrote:Mindia does not count.
Neither does anyone claiming they know anything.
I don't believe in the validity of the bible and the words within written by man either. Nice try though. (not really, moron)
I already stated that God cannot be proven, and that Christianity and other religions are based on Faith. Way to pay attention.
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:33 pm
by Harrison
Ok then, I retract that statement.
It seemed that was the path Diabolik was heading down. So I wanted to clarify.
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:34 pm
by Narrock
Oh, and I voted "Heaven and Hell," but it's not immediate. It will come after Jesus' second coming.
*edited cuz I made a boo-boo
Sorry fagawin!
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:34 pm
by Harrison
Mindia wrote:Oh, and I voted "Heaven and Hell," but it's not immediate. It will come after Jesus' second coming. If Finawin would have any Biblical knowledge he would have known that, and would have added that choice to his poll.
*sigh* now he thinks this is my poll.
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:34 pm
by Diabolik
Harrison wrote:Mindia does not count.
Neither does anyone claiming they know anything.
I don't believe in the validity of the bible and the words within written by man either. Nice try though. (not really, moron)
I never said Mindia. Way to assume, asshat.
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:50 am
by Eziekial
Collective soul. I own one of their albums.
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:52 am
by Mop
wouldnt it be hell if you are stuck at a long collective soul concert?
I think it would be
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:55 am
by Gypsiyee
Mindia wrote:I already stated that God cannot be proven, and that Christianity and other religions are based on Faith. Way to pay attention.
Mindia wrote:Oh, and I voted "Heaven and Hell," but it's not immediate. It will come after Jesus' second coming.
I think it's comments that state your opinion so matter-of-fact is why you're immediately thrown into the category of thinking you *know* so quickly.
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:08 am
by Lyion
Diabolik wrote:Harrison wrote:Less so at religious folk, they have belief... Not falsely claimed knowledge.
Because I've NEVER seen an arrogant religious person who thinks he has all the answers.
You're a Bible humper in a bad disguise.
Assholes are not limited by or to faith. You can find dickheads on all fronts.
Its interesting when I read posts from young people who thumb their nose at anything faith related. I was there, as were most of us slightly older people.
As you get older these things become more important and you genuflect on things versus doing the peer pressure 'I am young and immortal' dance.
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:13 am
by Diabolik
Lyion wrote:Assholes are not limited by or to faith. You can find dickheads on all fronts.
seriously!?!
/is a dickhead
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:15 am
by Menelvir
I don't think it's unreasonable to think that people of different ages have
different needs regarding what they need (or want) to believe. There are old atheists,
just as there are young deists. I think it's more a function of spiritual
(psychological?) need than age.
I also wouldn't say every atheist is making a knowledge claim.
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:20 am
by Lyion
My point is your views and beliefs change over time. It's more common when you are young and life is simpler and with less meaning that your views are also simple.
Many older Atheists were zealously Christan in their youth. Likewise, many older devout religious people were hardcore Atheists or Agnostics when they were young.
Spiritual need also plays a part, I agree but its more that experience plays a larger part in what you are and how much faith you have. I've seen firsthand there are no athiests in a foxhole.
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:31 am
by Eziekial
Lyion wrote: I've seen firsthand there are no athiests in a foxhole.
Damn skippy.
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:02 pm
by Zanchief
For those that believe in a collective soul, do you believe you will leave that collective to return to life again?
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:13 pm
by mofish
No atheists in a foxhole. What a crock of shit.
Watch a movie called 'Touching The Void' please. Firsthand proof of an atheist in a foxhole.
Summary : Trapped in a chasm, his leg shattered, no way out, no food no watter, did Joe Simpson start praying, and give himself up to 'God?' No he didn't. He realized there was no God, no one was coming to save him, no angels from heaven, no miracle. He was the only one that could help him. Long story short, he survives. <--There is your atheist in a foxhole.
Rent and watch this movie if you havent seen it, the most harrowing survival tale Ive ever seen.
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:17 pm
by Harrison
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:21 pm
by Martrae
mofish wrote:No atheists in a foxhole. What a crock of shit.
Watch a movie called 'Touching The Void' please. Firsthand proof of an atheist in a foxhole.
Summary : Trapped in a chasm, his leg shattered, no way out, no food no watter, did Joe Simpson start praying, and give himself up to 'God?' No he didn't. He realized there was no God, no one was coming to save him, no angels from heaven, no miracle. He was the only one that could help him. Long story short, he survives. <--There is your atheist in a foxhole.
Rent and watch this movie if you havent seen it, the most harrowing survival tale Ive ever seen.
What BS....so belief in God automatically translates into laying down and praying for help? Boy, do you ever have it backwards.
