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Thon wrote:but if the old testament is truly the divine word of god, it should be proof enough that you exist?

Not necessarily. Ganzo and everyone else here might all be part of some Rabbi's dream. Hence we don't exist, even "if the old testament is truly the divine word of god".

Chances are, most here have lived at least 100,000 hours not including hours you were asleep. Yet, how many of those hours can you recall? Only a tiny fraction. The memories you have are quite similiar to what most people recall of their dreams. Little snippets of this and that. So how can you be certain that you aren't just part of some dream?

i don't recall the book in the bible revealing we're all part of a dream.

i do recall the book in the bible where god created everything, including man. and if you accept that as fact, which many do, the question of whether or not we exist is moot, god made us, and yes we do exist.

now i'm not trying to trap anyone and start a god/anti-god debate which are oh so fun and informative. but it did irk me that someone who doesn't question that there is a god, could question whether or not he exists.

I am sorry that our conversation is interupted by your lack of understanding that discussing philosophy can be done without basing it on personal religious believes.

Just because i drive a car and know it's more eficient than a bycicle, doesn't mean i cannot enjoy bycicle rides

anyone who uses bicycle and car anaologies shouldn't question other's understanding of philosophy

You can't answer the question "Do we exist?"

Rene Descartes said "Cogito ergo sum" because he passed all sensory data off as unreliable. However, "I think therefore I am" is invalid, too. Saying "I think therefore something is" is more appropriate and is really the limit of what we can define. How can we know that the thinker is "I"? We can't, even if the thought is of self.

And anyone that asserts that their moral beliefs or political theories are some sort of fundamental basis for reality and truth are displaying the peak of both intellectual arrogance and ignorance. You have to distinguish between what you believe (what you think is real) and what you know (nothing), which is what ganzo already said.

Never bring personal beliefs to a philosophy discussion as fact. You will always get laughed at.

Yamori, I also find it funny that you can say you're well-versed in philosophy and don't need to take classes, etc., yet you say that you exist. "Do we exist?" is one of four unanswerable questions that are the basis of all philosophy.

Never bring personal beliefs to a philosophy discussion as fact. You will always get laughed at.

Kind of like that entire thread about "morality" we tried to point that out to him.

this was a good thread until religion ruined it ;\

guess i shouldn't be surprised though, it happens all the damn time around here

You are all a figment of MY imagination. Therefore, I am your God. Bow down before me or I will forget you out of existence!

Agrajag wrote:You are all a figment of MY imagination. Therefore, I am your God. Bow down before me or I will forget you out of existence!

I'll hold you to that! Make with the amnesiac impersonation already!

Alas, I cannot. You are far more valuable to me here, on this message board...