I'm owning a dirty jamaican nigger scammer...

[Gidan]

Racism is having bias for or against a perticular race.
Racial profiling is having bias for or against a perticular race.

They are the same regadless of what great reasoning you have or what data your looking at to support your bias.

Labbatts, if you dont like my typing dont read it. I could care less what you think about it.

[mofish]

Racial profiling is having bias for or against a particular race? Huh?

Groups of people tend to have certain behaviors. Whether that group is defined by religion, race, culture, ethnicity, geography, whatever. That doesnt mean you have to be biased against or for something. Its just the truth. The danger, of course, is applying those conclusions to everyone. The key word is 'tend.'

[Gidan]

If you single somone out based on their race, you have bias towards that race in that instance. Whether is positive or negative toward that race, you still singled them out becasue of their race.

The danger, of course, is applying those conclusions to everyone.

This is exactly my point. Racial profiling is applying that single view to the entire race. You picked that person because of their race. You associated some charactoristic to that person becasue of their race. Why? Because yoru profile says people of that race will act that way.

[Lueyen]

Racial Profiling is not inherently racisim. It is using statistical information to predict the most likely person or persons to act in a certain manner. It does not assume all people of the criteria will or will not act a certain way, it is saying that of everyone if anyone is going to act a certain way then it is most likely the people who fit the criteria based on the historical data.

The difference is between prediction based on historical data vs an assumed generalization.

[Gidan]

Assumed generalizations are usually based upon past experiences of the person or throught knowlege gained by that person. You statment basicly means that racism doesn't actually exist, its all racial profiling.

[Gargamellow]

Fuck those fuckers!

[Lueyen]

Assumed generalizations are usually based upon past experiences of the person or throught knowlege gained by that person. You statment basicly means that racism doesn't actually exist, its all racial profiling.

No assumed generalizations are an absolute even if they are not based in expierence. Predictions are not absolute, and to be at all useful or accurate they must be based from actual expierence.


Example:

Because Ralphs business has been screwed by black forieners in the past on numerous occasions he assumes every black person is with out a doubt out to screw his business. Due to this he decides to no longer sell to black forieners. This is racisim.

or

Because Ralph's business has been screwed by black forieners in the past on numerous occasions he looks at the facts and makes a prediction that in the future his business is most likely to be screwed by black forieners. Due to this prediction, he makes an assesment that the cost of doing business with black forieners. Because X percentage of his customers that are black forieners will most likely try to screw his business, the cost of doing business with them as a whole is not economically beneficial. He predicts that based on past information that the ammount of money he loses getting screwed will be greater then the ammount of money he makes. He therefore decides not to sell to black forieners. This is racial profiling, but it is not racisim. It does not have a bias toward every single black foriener, however it does not ignore the trend.

I'm not saying I like it, however to ignore facts so that you don't get twinges of guilt about being biased is foolhardy. The reality is you can't have it both ways, and it's easy to be critical when it's not your ass on the line.

One example of someone trying to have it both ways, Michael Moore's bit concerning airport screening in Farenheit 9/11. He basically presents that random security checking of mothers and elderly women is pretty wasteful of time and energy when trying to catch terrorists. He recognizes that they don't really fit into a mold of a possible terrorist. However if based on the fact that 100 percent of the terrorists in the 9/11 attacks were men of arabic decent, the US government or the FAA decided to do intensive screening on all arab men I'm sure Mr. Moore's voice would be one of the first to be heard in decent of this practice.

[Harrison]

Of course it would be, Moore's a fucking tool...

[Gidan]

Because Ralphs business has been screwed by black forieners in the past on numerous occasions he assumes every black person is with out a doubt out to screw his business. Due to this he decides to no longer sell to black forieners. This is racisim.

or

Because Ralph's business has been screwed by black forieners in the past on numerous occasions he looks at the facts and makes a prediction that in the future his business is most likely to be screwed by black forieners. Due to this prediction, he makes an assesment that the cost of doing business with black forieners. Because X percentage of his customers that are black forieners will most likely try to screw his business, the cost of doing business with them as a whole is not economically beneficial. He predicts that based on past information that the ammount of money he loses getting screwed will be greater then the ammount of money he makes. He therefore decides not to sell to black forieners. This is racial profiling, but it is not racisim. It does not have a bias toward every single black foriener, however it does not ignore the trend.

There are only 2 difference between these statments. In the first you use the word assume rather then predict though in this situation they are interchangable. And in the 2nd you gave detailed reasoning. By your definition both are racial profiling.

By your own definition, the only people who are capable of being racist would be somone who has never met or heared of another single person. This way they would have no knowlege to base there predictions/assumptions on. As soon as you have meet or heared of a single person of a race, you have statistical data for your decsions.

Just though I would put this in here though.

Dictionary definition of Racial Profiling

racial profiling

n : a form of racism consisting of the (alleged) policy of policemen who stop and search vehicles driven by persons belonging to particular racial groups

Main Entry: racial profiling
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: the consideration of race when developing a profile of suspected criminals; by extension, a form of racism involving police focus on people of certain racial groups when seeking suspected criminals

[Gidan]

Of course it would be, Moore's a fucking tool...

I second that opinion.

[Lueyen]

What dictionary did you find that in? I find it extremely suspect because first it's two words racial and profiling generally dictionaries give definitions on a single word, not the combination. Second it lists it as a noun. Profiling is an action therefore a verb, racial is descriptive, therefore and adjective. I fail to see how the combination of the two a verb and and adjective makes a noun, in fact I believe that makes it an adverb if you want to get technical. Really it looks like someone came up with the definition trying to push an ajenda.

Anyway I must not have been clear on what I was getting at, you completely missed my point. In the examples given assume and predict are not interchangeable because flip flopping them would change the meaning. I'll try one more explanation to hopefully help you see what it is I'm getting at.

Where racial profiling is concerned when applied to law enforcement:

Racial profiling does not say that every single person of a certain race is a criminal.
That would be racism. Rather it is used as a tool to limit the scope of who you investigate. Now one would hope that the person or persons who draw up the profile are not racist, or the profile itself will turn out very much biased. I'm not arguing that the use of racial profiling can not easily be corrupted and used as a tool for those with racist attitudes, but that in and of itself it is not inherently racist.

By your logic if a police profile includes the gender of a suspect, then it would be sexist.

Of course it would be, Moore's a fucking tool...

I second that opinion.

Well at least we found something we agree on 8).

[Gidan]

The definitions both came from Dictionary.com

[Lueyen]

Merriam-Webster Online didn't return a link for it, but that doesn't surprise me since it's not one word, but two. I looked several other places some definitions include the term racisim, some don't. Really it's all probably a mute point, because I think we would generally agree that the practice of racial profiling is not a good one, different views but same end result. Personally I don't like it because I see it as sloppy, and prone to abuse.

[Captain Insano]

Racial/gender/organizational group profiling while somewhat unsavory works in business, marketing, crime prevention, war and really in almost all facets of life. People aren't equal. Period. I believe that if they really did some serious unbiased study on the races science would find them to be very different physically and mentally.

That being said I have already cancelled orders from countries where this type of crime is rampant since the incident. Any way you splice it, it is in the best interests of my company. You don't have to like it and I don't expect many of you do but it isn't your pocketbook that is affected.

Another bias I have in business is against women customers (go figure). Women make up about 18 percent of my sales, but constitute 80 percent of my support calls and 90 percent of my returns; all of which waste money and a fuckton of time (time=money). Therefore I tend to make my marketing and sales jargon directed at men. We use the saying here: Don't pitch the bitch.

Its another terrible thing to say in today's PC world but I could care less. I'm in the business of making money not catering to scammers or retarded women who break our computers then lie about it so they can get a return.

[Lueyen]

You don't have to like it and I don't expect many of you do but it isn't your pocketbook that is affected.

Well said, critisizim from the cheap seats is easy, making these sort of decisions is a lot tougher when it's your money or your ass on the line.

A couple of thoughts on the things you've stated.

The effectiveness or ineffectiveness of racial profiling in the realm of law enforcement is difficult to dicern. Oponents of it bring up a very valid argument. Statistically racial profiling will support it self. Because you are looking more carefully at a paticular ethnic group you will tend to catch more of the criminals of that group, this could easily artificially inflate the statistics in such a way as to make it appear that racial profiling is both effective and justifiable.

The company I work for also runs a tech support line. The majority (at least 98 percent) pay a monthly support fee for a 24/7 tech support line. Also included in this are software updates. The head of tech support once told me that around 20 percent of our client base made up around 80 percent of our support calls. I'm not surprised your numbers are similar, I think that sort of split is pretty common. I can't speak for the men vs women for the most part since we market to business, not individuals. I would however say that for the most part women are more likely to call sooner then men and for us thats not a bad thing since it's usually the case that the people who don't call are just putting off the problem until it's to big to ignore. As far as returns.. well I think the company had exactly 1 in it's 20+ years of operation, but the price tag is substantial and people don't purchase our software on a whim, or without knowing it fits thier needs because of this.

I feel for you on getting screwed with no recourse though, quite honestly if I were in your shoes, I would seriously consider some back door program that would allow you to render a system unfunctionable remotely should payment get canceled. Something you could disable after a period of time once revokation of payment was no longer possible. But hell I've day dreamed about the idea of packing a computer case with plastic explosives and the ability to remotely detonate just incase a client totally pisses me off .

[Narrock]

Boybutter sez:

but dude you just turn in to Mindia when you start spouting out your mangina about how Mexicans do this and Blacks do that....

Wtf are you talking about dipshit? Are you referencing the time where I brought up the fact that Mexicans are taking all the construction jobs in Southern California?
That is not a racist comment. Stop trolling, and stop trying to drag ME into this you idiot.

[The Kizzy]

Mindia doesn't like Mexicans? That is sad, we will have to discontinue or cyber love makins sessions.

[Narrock]

Mindia doesn't like Mexicans? That is sad, we will have to discontinue or cyber love makins sessions.

Hmm... my best friend since 1976 is a Mexican thoroughbred, and I've dated 2 Latina women... yeah, I hate Mexicans. /cough

[Lyion]

To all your politically correct bitches... fuck off! You have no idea what it is like dealing with these people all the time.

Too true. I used to get my feathers ruffled when someone was called a nigger. Then I moved to downtown Atlanta for a couple months. Problem solved.

As someone who's lived there, that is too true.

[Narrock]

Indo lives in Atlanta

[The Kizzy]

Mindia doesn't like Mexicans? That is sad, we will have to discontinue or cyber love makins sessions.

Hmm... my best friend since 1976 is a Mexican thoroughbred, and I've dated 2 Latina women... yeah, I hate Mexicans. /cough

I've been Mexican since 1974, SO THERE.

[Harrison]

OH SHIT

P.S. After living in New Bedford I fully support the usage of the word Nigger for those who deserve such a term.

[kaharthemad]

Ok time to step in here. First off as Manager of a Computer sales and Serivce center(owner never in, on beach, so I basically run thew show here) I know where Ralf is coming from. We dont sell outside the US because of the scams. If they want to buy from us and insist on buying from us we go thru a escrow system. They pay the fee to start with to start up the escrow. and yes, we use the same one every time(which is not often since most scammers h8 escrow. Once the money is there and the computer and the company confirms both and the check is posted the computer goes to the customer. Escrow takes about 30 days. We do this with countries that we dont like to do biz with...Nigeria, Jamacia, France, Russia, any South American countires. Once we started doing this our orders tanked, but so did the scammers. However our companies that deal in those countires still get priority mail since they are established. Is this Racial Profiling? Nope this is minimally Observent.

Here is a point. If one area of a city has a large amount of bounced checks and failure to pays you stop dealing with that part of town. Same with people. If one set of jackasses start scamming I take them off my sale list.

As for women being 80 percent of my service calls and returns that is a fair assesment if your talking about actual computers. If your talking about parts those are the Amish. I have had a total 10 returns in the last 2 years. Of which 8 of them are women. most of which forgot to tell said husband they are buying a new toy. Or the great one I have gotten...I go out to a house to set up a install. I get the computer all set up and she hands me 3 boxes of programs all for either MAC or windows 3.1

[Captain Insano]

You don't have to like it and I don't expect many of you do but it isn't your pocketbook that is affected.

Well said, critisizim from the cheap seats is easy, making these sort of decisions is a lot tougher when it's your money or your ass on the line.

A couple of thoughts on the things you've stated.

The effectiveness or ineffectiveness of racial profiling in the realm of law enforcement is difficult to dicern. Oponents of it bring up a very valid argument. Statistically racial profiling will support it self. Because you are looking more carefully at a paticular ethnic group you will tend to catch more of the criminals of that group, this could easily artificially inflate the statistics in such a way as to make it appear that racial profiling is both effective and justifiable.

The company I work for also runs a tech support line. The majority (at least 98 percent) pay a monthly support fee for a 24/7 tech support line. Also included in this are software updates. The head of tech support once told me that around 20 percent of our client base made up around 80 percent of our support calls. I'm not surprised your numbers are similar, I think that sort of split is pretty common. I can't speak for the men vs women for the most part since we market to business, not individuals. I would however say that for the most part women are more likely to call sooner then men and for us thats not a bad thing since it's usually the case that the people who don't call are just putting off the problem until it's to big to ignore. As far as returns.. well I think the company had exactly 1 in it's 20+ years of operation, but the price tag is substantial and people don't purchase our software on a whim, or without knowing it fits thier needs because of this.

I feel for you on getting screwed with no recourse though, quite honestly if I were in your shoes, I would seriously consider some back door program that would allow you to render a system unfunctionable remotely should payment get canceled. Something you could disable after a period of time once revokation of payment was no longer possible. But hell I've day dreamed about the idea of packing a computer case with plastic explosives and the ability to remotely detonate just incase a client totally pisses me off .

haha not a bad idea.... I just had this image of me remotely shutting down a computer and then some dirty jamaican repeatedly picking it up and slamming it to the ground while grunting like a crazed ape.


I can't tell you how many times I have had some rude ass bitch call us and swear up and down we sent her a computer that was malfunctioning and that she wanted her money back...

We created this policy that if we get a system back and its fully functional that we will charge a 15 percent restocking fee... This is mainly because we have to resell the system as refurbished and take a loss and secondly because it deters the real retards from returning a perfectly good system.

In the case of the bitch women I get the computer back and 99.9 percent of the time its just fine... I'll find some retarded thing that the woman did like create an account password and forget it and not be able to get back into the machine and want a return...

Here is an interesting fact... So far I have serviced about 20 returns in the last 1.5 years. of those over 15 were woman. Of those 15 returns almost every single woman lied her ASS off about the computer, usually telling me they didn't use it at all and that it never worked blah blah etc etc. ...

I get them every fucking time in their lie by going into the internet browser's caches and say to them on the phone:

"Well Ms. Smith I actually see here that you were surfing http://www.hawtmansekz.org, http://www.sextoys.com and http://www.hotmail.com. If the computer didn't turn on how were you able to navigate to those pages?"

<insert complete stunned silence, followed by poorly fabricated 2nd tier lies to cover ones ass>

If the bitch continues to lie to me I bluff em by saying:

"Well Ms. Smith if you didn't surf these pages lets see who did...It shows me the passwords for the hotmail/yahoo/gmail account right here.. Maybe we can figure out who was using the computer...."

<this is where I win the battle and the war and finish my conquest with:>

"Well ok Ms. Smith if you really say soo... I'm sure your son's friends next door must have gotten a hold of your brand new 2500 laptop and fucked it all up. We'll be refunding your money now minus the 15 percent restocking fee. Have a nice day and please don't come again."


A big skill in business is taking damn good care of your valuable customers, yet at the same time realizing which ones you don't want business from and keeping them away.

[Captain Insano]

Ok time to step in here. First off as Manager of a Computer sales and Serivce center(owner never in, on beach, so I basically run thew show here) I know where Ralf is coming from. We dont sell outside the US because of the scams. If they want to buy from us and insist on buying from us we go thru a escrow system. They pay the fee to start with to start up the escrow. and yes, we use the same one every time(which is not often since most scammers h8 escrow. Once the money is there and the computer and the company confirms both and the check is posted the computer goes to the customer. Escrow takes about 30 days. We do this with countries that we dont like to do biz with...Nigeria, Jamacia, France, Russia, any South American countires. Once we started doing this our orders tanked, but so did the scammers. However our companies that deal in those countires still get priority mail since they are established. Is this Racial Profiling? Nope this is minimally Observent.

Here is a point. If one area of a city has a large amount of bounced checks and failure to pays you stop dealing with that part of town. Same with people. If one set of jackasses start scamming I take them off my sale list.

As for women being 80 percent of my service calls and returns that is a fair assesment if your talking about actual computers. If your talking about parts those are the Amish. I have had a total 10 returns in the last 2 years. Of which 8 of them are women. most of which forgot to tell said husband they are buying a new toy. Or the great one I have gotten...I go out to a house to set up a install. I get the computer all set up and she hands me 3 boxes of programs all for either MAC or windows 3.1

hahah the last paragraph made me laugh because the shit women try and pull is fucking unreal.

I forgot to add... Out of all my returns ever two were valid. One a cable got disconnected en route, and the other one looked like the DHL guy ran the box over with a forklift. The rest of my returns were mostly from clueless chicks who decided to buy their first computer ever from me.

Oh and I like mexicans... As long as they are hot and put out and from the female persuasion.

Actually I will take this a bit further... I like the Spanish descended Mexicans... You can usually tell because they have fair skin and are tall. The ones that are dirty and commit crime all day and be lazy are the short, dark, squat ones which are basically native americans without casinos and fireworks stands.