namelesstavern.net

I'm not sure that I'd really try to compare this to VCR days

it's not a completely brand new tech

it's just an incremental upgrade over existing tech (in the eyes of the lay man)

you're really not going to see mass penetration until well after everyone owns 1080p TVs (or at least 720p sets)

Tikker wrote:you're really not going to see mass penetration until well after everyone

lol i had to.

Tossica wrote:Check your facts on the BR spec thing before you start calling me clueless. NEW players released are supposed to be profile 1.1 compliant but there are only like 4 models announced with 2 of them being well over $1000. That doesn't stop them from pushing the piece of shit 1.0 profile players until they are all sold out. Those are the sub $300 players we are seeing now. No HD audio, no disc interactivity, no web enabled features, No thanks. The cheapest 1.1 player is $400 and still doesn't include the necessary hardware to make it 2.0 compliant when they finally decide on it. It will be another year or more before Blu-Ray gets their spec straight (2.0) and has a product that matches HD-DVD in functionality. The first HD-DVD player shipped had ALL of the functionality that the 2.0 spec in BR is "supposed" to provide. Sorry Lyion but a firmware upgrade is NOT going to provide a 1.0 player with an ethernet port, 256+MB of ram, a secondary A/V decoder and the ability to decode all of the HD audio formats available. If you bought a standalone BR player (not a PS3) that is 1.0 profile, you are fucked. You own a BR lite player with bare minimum functionality and can look at buying a new one in the near future if you want to see what BR is really capable of. Even if you buy a 1.1 player now, you are selling yourself short as the 2.0 spec provides more features that your player will not be able to take advantage of. They should have had all this hit worked out BEFORE they launched their first player. It's ridiculous.

Again, everything you stated has no bearing on 'simply watching movies'. The fact you pushed a piece of shit gutted 1080i HD DVD player and then complain about low priced Blu-ray player features that will play all movies is puzzling, but not unsurprising given your HD DVD evangelism.

The difference is solely in audio. All Blu-ray discs and players support surround sound, players do not all come with internal support for advanced audio codecs like Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS HD. These features usually aren’t found on less expensive players. The higher picture quality of Blu-ray is only one of the advantages over standard DVD; these optional audio features increase surround sound capabilities from 5.1 to 7.1, and some add the benefit of lossless (uncompressed) surround sound.

Given your supposed tech knowledge of HD and conversion, then you should know if you buy a player that only delivers bitstream output, you may not always be able to take advantage of superior audio codecs, unless you have a high-end receiver that supports the decoding of the bitstream. Also, Players with internal decoding can still output high resolution audio during PIP. Not a big deal for most. Essentially, if you have a killer home sound setup, you are already good, regardless of 1.0, 1.1, or 2.0 spec.

These are not show stoppers or that big a deal, especially for someone so jazzed to push the woeful Toshiba A20 on all and sundry. For someone pushing a piece of shit HD DVD player relying on big buck TVs to upconvert it, your arguments against BR players are a tad off the mark, but not surprising.

I swear to god Lyion, you do a quick google search on subjects you know jack shit about just so you can argue. It's great that you are happy with your $600 Blu-Ray player, I'm glad. Do what you need to do to feel good about your purchase but stay the fuck out of conversations that are over your head. Thanks.

Tossica wrote:I swear to god Lyion, you do a quick google search on subjects you know jack shit about just so you can argue. It's great that you are happy with your $600 Blu-Ray player, I'm glad. Do what you need to do to feel good about your purchase but stay the fuck out of conversations that are over your head. Thanks.

Hey tossica you just broke 10k posts.

gratz? lol

Why should I have to do anything to feel good about my purchase? Everything I said turned out to be pretty accurate, unlike you. Your xbox HD DVD player and Toshiba are close to worthless. Fortunately everyone here knew you were completely full of shit, and steered clear of the format war or went the safe route and picked up a PS3.

I realize you are pissed, but try not to be too stubborn just because you are wrong and continue to be wrong. That's no excuse to speak the ignorant Bluray FUD you spout. If you want to continue to be a jerk, I'll be glad to quote your goldmine of wrongness and bullshit in this thread until your head explodes.

Everything I said above is simple fact anyone can verify by learning the specs and understanding the technology. There's the truth, and then there's bullshit spin by tech zealots. I realize you are an HD DVD zealot but try and not let your HD love and anger let you post overt bullshit too much, or get angry because the better and more polular spec won.

He's such a horrible hippie.

Lyion wrote:Why should I have to do anything to feel good about my purchase? Everything I said turned out to be pretty accurate, unlike you. Your xbox HD DVD player and Toshiba are close to worthless. Fortunately everyone here knew you were completely full of shit, and steered clear of the format war or went the safe route and picked up a PS3.

I don't own an xbox HD dvd player and my Toshiba has more than paid for itself so I'm not out anything at this point... in fact, I am quite sure I came out ahead in the deal so I don't feel so bad about my purchase. Almost all of the films I have may never make it to Blu-Ray since they are mostly Universal catalog titles.

Everything I said above is simple fact anyone can verify by learning the specs and understanding the technology.

Wrong.

The A2 (not A20 which does "1080p") was a perfect match for me and MOST consumers because I have two HDTV's neither of which are 1080p. MOST HDTV's are not 1080p native displays. FACT. We've gone over and over and over this yet you STILL keep bringing it up. You obviously still don't understand how it the whole HD thing works so maybe another run at google will enlighten you. If Sony made a low cost 1080i player with all the features that HD-DVD offered, I would have bought it and still will buy it if it ever happens. 1080p is worthless to me and MOST consumers and if it will save me $100 on the player, I will gladly take the trade off.

I will not pay $400+ for a BR player that only offers basic film playback capabilities when the REAL BR spec still has not been finalized. Why would ANYONE pay $400-$1000 for a new DVD player if all they wanted to do was "simply watch movies"? Do a google search on BR live and all of the other shit that is on the horizon that should have been included in the initial spec and finalized before the first player was ever manufactured. How you can argue against that logic is ridiculous. The entire format is banking on the PS3 and it's just too expensive for mainstream adoption so while HD-DVD may have met a premature death by a $620m payout to WB from Sony, Blu Ray has a slim chance of surviving at this rate. Many HD-DVD owners might be out the $100-$200 they spent on their players, but there are going to be more BR owners that spent upwards of $1000 that will be stuck with a dead format as well. Hello laserdisc 2.0.

You are wrong again about the audio codecs. My cheap receiver is all I need for HD audio from the HD-DVD format since the players decode the HD formats for me, eliminating the need for an expensive receiver. Your beloved PS3 and the other low end BR players require an active HDMI capable receiver that can decode the signal in order to take advantage of the true HD formats otherwise you are stuck with audio is that is marginably better than a standard DVD. Dolby Digital+, TruHD and DTS HD are available in ALL HD-DVD players, it's part of the spec and yes, even my "gutted, piece of shit" $99 A2 kicks your $600 PS3 ass in the audio department.

So again, WHY would ANYONE buy a standalone BR player at this point in the game? The answer is, if they knew the truth they wouldn't, but since Sony has NEVER been in the truth in advertising market, there will be several dissatisfied consumers burned by the clusterfuck that is Blu-Ray.

Do you honestly think $500+ is a fair price to pay for a marginally better picture on the proper display if that's the ONLY benefit these standalone players are offering over a good upconverting DVD player?

The ONLY reason I ever bought in to HD media to begin with was because it became affordable. Now it's no longer affordable for me and many others that adopted early and whether you want to admit it or not, that's going to be a big problem for Sony as nearly 1/3rd of the entire already slim HD media market has now been burned by Warner.

I'm glad you were able to dump your 360 HDDVD on some poor mo who rescued you.

Nothing else you stated has any bearing on my points.

I'm looking forward to the day I resurrect this post (if Lyion doesn't beat me to it) where BR players are sub $200 and HD DVD will be something no one remembers.

Lyion wrote:I'm glad you were able to dump your 360 HDDVD on some poor mo who rescued you.

Nothing else you stated has any bearing on my points.

Oh, except for disputing all of your googles "facts"?

Harrison wrote:I'm looking forward to the day I resurrect this post (if Lyion doesn't beat me to it) where BR players are sub $200 and HD DVD will be something no one remembers.

Stay the fuck out of the big boy threads you meathead.

I said the format will fail UNLESS they drop the prices drastically on the players and the media.

"big boy thread"

You've been crying about a fucking failing/failed format of media for months. Shut the fuck up.

Harrison wrote:You've been crying about a fucking failing/failed life for years. Shut the fuck up.

Fixed.

Shouldn't you be busy getting hit by cars?

Harrison wrote:Shouldn't you be busy getting hit by cars?

If I did, would I use that as my excuse for not being able to keep a job and living in my parent's house until my mid-20s without a drivers license?

I've never been dumb enough to be hit by a car, so I wouldn't know. lol

or finish anything you've ever set out to accomplish.....

Let's rehash a best of by Toss. All quotes below are from him. Gads, he was wrong so many times in this thread. A normal human would go take some Preparation H for the assreaming he has taken here, but he fights on, hugely pwned but never wavering in his attacks!

Seriously, there is NO WAY Sony is going to put HD-DVD out of the game. The only people watching Blu-Ray movies are the people who bought PS3's of which there are very few. There is no way Sony is going to sell enough PS3's to make Blu-Ray any kind of standard. HD-DVD has some megaton bombs they will be dropping very soon that there is no way Blu-Ray can compete with. HD-DVD will be the standard to replace DVD's

/cheers. Totally wrong. Standalone BR players have outsold HD DVD ones. Hilarious.

HD-DVD doesn't give a shit about Blu-Ray because that's not who they are at "war" with. HD-DVD has their sights set on the DVD market. Studios are getting irritated with Sony and their typical hype and bullshit and are going to go where the money is in the long run and that's HD-DVD. The Blu-Ray spec is STILL NOT COMPLETE YET and they have been selling players for a year now. ALL of the stand alone Blu-Ray players are going to be rendered obsolete this fall when the spec is finalized.

Talking about googling for completely wrong info. There you go. You are wrong, as anyone who reads the specs knows. Heck, perhaps you should try google!

Tossica wrote:

Tikker wrote:sony owns 40-45% of ALL source material

that's the part you keep conveniently ignoring Toss

No, they don't and even if they did, they will eventually make HD-DVD's if they want to make money from their catalog. Blu-Ray will be around for as long as the PS3 will but it will never be more than a niche market.

Wrong again.

My prediction:

By xmas 2008, similarly priced "combo" HD/SD-DVD's will be replacing standard definition DVD's for most major releases with a pro HD studio behind them (ie Universal, Warner, Paramount, Dreamworks, Weinstein. etc) HD-DVD players will have dropped to $149 or possibly even $99 and will be widely available at all major US retailers. The combo format will allow existing HD and standard DVD owners to buy one disk for use in all of their current DVD players (ie, their laptop, car DVD, bedroom, etc) which Blu-Ray is unable to do and is probably HD-DVDs biggest advantage.

HD players and media will finally start to catch on in the public and the inexpensive HD players will fly off the shelves for xmas taking a much larger percentage of the market and convincing all other studios that are on the fence or BR exclusive to start releasing HD-DVD movies. By Xmas 09', HD will have enough momentum to to officially be declared the "winner".

Holy shit that's so far off just Jan 08 it's hilarious. Don't try your luck at the stock market! The only thing left is for Toshiba to give them away!

How many people do you know with a PS3? How many people do you know with a DVD player? How many people do you know that will probably buy a new DVD player in the next year? How many of those people would probably buy a $99 DVD player that plays HD-DVD's as well? Even if they don't already have an HD TV, the $99 price point is cheap enough to make them consider buying one instead of a standard DVD player.

The problem here is the 99 dollar deal was a one day firesale from Wal-Mart, and not a 'pricepoint', which you bullshitted people about over and over for this thread.

Holy Fucking SHIT.

Game over Blu-Ray...

Toshiba HD-DVD player $98 at Wal-Mart this Friday. This is their "Black Friday" price but they are doing a few "secret" sales before then.

http://holiday.ri-walmart.com/?section= ... 144-lLink1

Select movies are $15 as well. Talk about hitting the mass market running. No excuse to "wait out the format war" now.

With Paramount, Dreamworks and Universal all exclusive and Warner on the verge of going HD-DVD exclusive, this is the knock out punch HD-DVD needed to lay Sony out flat.

Yes, such a knock out punch, the one day 99 dollar sale you seem to want to use to compare player prices.

There are more titles available and many more titles announced for HD-DVD than Blu-Ray.

Sure, but something tells me Pixar movies, Disney movies, Sony movies, WB movies, etc are going to be worth more than Bob's Indy studios 57 movies that he released in 1957.lol.

Tossica wrote:Warner Bros WAS HD-DVD exclusive at the beginning and come Jan 2008 will be HD exclusive again. Universal is now and has always been HD-DVD exclusive. Paramount just went exclusive. You think all the other studios are just going to sit there and watch while millions of people start buying HD-DVD players and content?

So fucking wrong it wasn't fumny. Did I mention you called me multiple names and said this over and over. Game over, man! Game over!

The ONLY Blu-Ray player people are buying is the PS3 and over half of the people buying them don't even know that it plays HD movies or don't care. With nearly 10 times the amount of players in the market, Blu-Ray has barely held a 2-1 lead in sales since inception. After this holiday season when millions of new HD-DVD owners are buying films, the ratio is going to flip flop and Blu-Ray will be left in the dust.

The only problem is STANDALONE Bluray players have outsold HD DVD ones, despite the 99 dollar firesales and Toshiba losing tens of millions.

I expect Toshiba to sell another 300K+ standalones and MS to sell another 50K+ add ons before Xmas putting nearly a million standalones in peoples homes. At that point studios will actually start turning a nice profit on films and support for BR will dwindle away leaving Sony with another failed format.

The comedy here is MS is talking about moving to Bluray now.

Neither format will have the market penetration that DVD had BUT I think one format will come through with studio support from almost all houses while the other fades in to obscurity.

Correct. You just backed the wrong horse.

Tossica wrote:WB goes Blu-Ray exclusive.

http://www.timewarner.com/corp/newsroom ... 83,00.html

That pretty much seals the deal for HD-DVD I think. Too bad.

As expensive and consumer unfriendly as Sony and BR are, I will stick with DVD I guess until prices come down.

Good. I'll enjoy my High Def BR movies played on my PS3 on my 61" Sony while you go back to regular DVDs.

Stop saying older BR players won't play movies. That's an outright lie. If you want to talk about googling simple fucking facts, there you go, do it and stop being an asshat.

Feel free to whine about Sony, Specs, BR, etc, but really you might want to quit while you're down in a 100 foot hole and all alone screaming 'Fuck Blu-ray'.

Yes, the fucking movie MIGHT play but how do you explain to all your customers that they should not try to play any of the 1.1 or 2.0 content contained on the disk on their $1000 player because not only will it not play but it might lock their player up or cause other unpredictable results? Why the FUCK do you continue to defend BR on this front? It's fucking ridiculous. It's a clusterfuck, pretty much any sane person would agree.


None of my predictions could have taken in to account a $620m payout to Warner. Even Toshiba themselves were left dumbfounded as they clearly had Warner in their camp all the way up until the day of the announcement. Congrats, your format won. Unfortunately, I can't afford to keep pace with your $600 players and 61" 1080p displays so yes, I will be stuck with DVD. I hope for your sake the rest of the world can find $3500 in their couch so they too can enjoy the benefits of BR or you'll be sitting on a "dead format" as well.

Way to pull that number out of your ass. Also, again you are misrepresenting Blu-ray, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Most of your post here has much validity as an article in the National Enquirer.

http://www.variety.com/article/VR111797 ... id=20&cs=1

Universal also now isn't exclusive HD DVD.

ps
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080118/tc ... 0118200606

Blu-Ray, the format created by Sony Corp., accounted for a crushing 90 percent of next-generation DVD recorder sales in the three-month period, the study said.

Blu-Ray is used in Sony's PlayStation 3 video-game machine, but the study only looked at living-room DVD recorders

90% of high def players were blu-ray NOT COUNTING PS3

hd-dvd wasn't even in the game

Tikker wrote:ps
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080118/tc ... 0118200606

Blu-Ray, the format created by Sony Corp., accounted for a crushing 90 percent of next-generation DVD recorder sales in the three-month period, the study said.

Blu-Ray is used in Sony's PlayStation 3 video-game machine, but the study only looked at living-room DVD recorders

90% of high def players were blu-ray NOT COUNTING PS3

hd-dvd wasn't even in the game

RECORDERS. Not players. Thanks for your input though.

Hay guyz, it's me, Tossica.

Tossica wrote:Yes, the fucking movie MIGHT play but how do you explain to all your customers that they should not try to play any of the 1.1 or 2.0 content contained on the disk on their $1000 player because not only will it not play but it might lock their player up or cause other unpredictable results? Why the FUCK do you continue to defend BR on this front? It's fucking ridiculous. It's a clusterfuck, pretty much any sane person would agree.


None of my predictions could have taken in to account a $620m payout to Warner. Even Toshiba themselves were left dumbfounded as they clearly had Warner in their camp all the way up until the day of the announcement. Congrats, your format won. Unfortunately, I can't afford to keep pace with your $600 players and 61" 1080p displays so yes, I will be stuck with DVD. I hope for your sake the rest of the world can find $3500 in their couch so they too can enjoy the benefits of BR or you'll be sitting on a "dead format" as well.

You can get a 1080p westy 37 for under 1000 and you can get a ps3 for 400. Amazon sells Bluray discs for 15-30 a pop. If you don't want a PS3 and want a "real" BluRay player, you can get one for 350 from some no namer brand called Sony. Sorry Toss, HDDVD sucks because it's inferior.