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Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:13 am
by Insanityfair
Mindia wrote:Martrae wrote:You idiot...how can it be attempted murder when it's court sanctioned and ordered?
I guess you missed the part about her husband injecting her with unnecessary insulin which put her in a state of profuse sweating and anxiety. Idiot.
I've heard that, please show me your link though where you read it, I'm intrested.
And I think she's referring to when/if Terri Schaivo dies this time due to removal of the feeding tube, it's because the judge ordered it. You're aruging two different things.
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:19 am
by Diekan
Lyion wrote:At least harvest her organs for donors. Those 20 years of her laying their with no brain activity at a cost of millions should recoup something.
That or we need to find Doctor Frankensteen and apply the 'Abby Normal' brain into her head.
If we're going to kill her, do it quickly.
Maybe we could donate her brain to Bush? It'd be a dramatic improvement.
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:20 am
by Drem
Diekan wrote:Maybe we could donate her brain to Bush? It'd be a dramatic improvement.
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:33 am
by Martrae
Mindia wrote:Martrae wrote:You idiot...how can it be attempted murder when it's court sanctioned and ordered?
I guess you missed the part about her husband injecting her with unnecessary insulin which put her in a state of profuse sweating and anxiety. Idiot.
Proof please? The unsubstantiated word of a disgruntled ex-employee doesn't count. Blood tests done? Paperwork filed?
So your premise is he turned down $10m so he could inherit maybe 30k when alls said and done???? Not to mention all the threats and publicity and court he's had to deal with. You don't think it would be EASIER for him to just walk away? Her parents would love to have custody of her and take care of her until they die....after all the shit he's taken, don't you think that wouldn't be the logical thing to do?
UNLESS, he truly believes she wouldn't want to live that way and is fighting tooth and nail for her.
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:36 am
by Langston
Martrae wrote:UNLESS, he truly believes she wouldn't want to live that way and is fighting tooth and nail for her.
Do you honestly believe that or are you just arguing for the sake of argument?
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:42 am
by Martrae
Logically, it would make more sense for him to turn over her care to her parents, wouldn't it?
He could divorce her, marry the mother of his kids and move on with his life. Her parents would be thrilled beyond measure too. Nobody loses but her.
Can you come up with another reason he would be willing to deal with so much shit for so long?
Or maybe I'm just too romantical in the deep dark recesses of my soul....
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:28 am
by Arlos
OK, Ugz, if you don't believe the reason Martrae quoted, why do YOU think he'd turn down millions and millions, go through these years of legal hell fighting for his wife's right to die, etc?
Cause if on the one hand, he could've had 10 mil, freely gotten a divorce and married his new lady, and made Terry's family happy by letting them assume custody, and on the other he's getting a pittance at most, had to deal with years and years of crap, just so he can assist his wife in dying.... Well, unless he had a DAMN powerful reason for chosing the 2nd option, I can't begin to understand why he'd do it.
So again, honest curiosity, if you don't believe the reasoning Martrae put out, what's YOUR explanation for it?
-Arlos
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:32 am
by Narrock
Martrae wrote:Mindia wrote:Martrae wrote:You idiot...how can it be attempted murder when it's court sanctioned and ordered?
I guess you missed the part about her husband injecting her with unnecessary insulin which put her in a state of profuse sweating and anxiety. Idiot.
Proof please? The unsubstantiated word of a disgruntled ex-employee doesn't count. Blood tests done? Paperwork filed?
So your premise is he turned down $10m so he could inherit maybe 30k when alls said and done???? Not to mention all the threats and publicity and court he's had to deal with. You don't think it would be EASIER for him to just walk away? Her parents would love to have custody of her and take care of her until they die....after all the shit he's taken, don't you think that wouldn't be the logical thing to do?
UNLESS, he truly believes she wouldn't want to live that way and is fighting tooth and nail for her.
The nurse saw Michael Schiavo go into Terry's room in the hospice, close the door, and then left 20 minutes later in a rush. The nurse saw this as suspicious (as any reasonable person would) and went in to check on Terry. She noticed Terry was sweating profusely, and had the appearance of being in a panic-stricken state. She found fresh needle puncture wounds under Terry's breast, as well as in her groin area. She then looked around the room and found (
concealed in the trash) the empty vial of insulin. Terry was not a diabetic, and did not need the insulin injections. Giving somebody an insulin injection when they are not diabetic could be dangerous for them if the dose is large enough. It was completely obvious that Michael was trying to kill Terry.
The nurse reported all this to admin, and they didn't take her seriously. She was so certain of everything that she then went to the police. Detectives showed up and started asking a lot of questions at the hospice. The administrator then fired the nurse for getting the police involved.
Now, you being an intelligent person Martrae, (lol) can probably put two-and-two together and realize what was going on here. It doesn't take a genious to figure out that the administrator is working in cahootz (sp?) with Michael Schiavo. Why you continuously defend Michael Schiavo is absolutely beyond comprehension, and is completely absurd.
Yes, I believe the nurse. I have no reason not to. She has no logical perceivable explanation of an ulterior motive.
Well, I guess you're going to say now that some insulin-dependent diabetic borrowed Terry's room for a few minutes to inject themselves and then bury the vial under other trash in Terry's trash can, or... you can think that the nurse planted that vial there in an attempt to frame Michael... give me a break. Use your noggin.
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:35 am
by Drem
shut the fuck up
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:38 am
by Narrock
Arlos wrote:OK, Ugz, if you don't believe the reason Martrae quoted, why do YOU think he'd turn down millions and millions, go through these years of legal hell fighting for his wife's right to die, etc?
Cause if on the one hand, he could've had 10 mil, freely gotten a divorce and married his new lady, and made Terry's family happy by letting them assume custody, and on the other he's getting a pittance at most, had to deal with years and years of crap, just so he can assist his wife in dying.... Well, unless he had a DAMN powerful reason for chosing the 2nd option, I can't begin to understand why he'd do it.
So again, honest curiosity, if you don't believe the reasoning Martrae put out, what's YOUR explanation for it?
-Arlos
For the third time...
If Michael took the money he would have the appearance of taking the "payoff" instead of loving his wife. He is trying to show the world that he is a compassionate person who loved his wife. He will get the insurance money when she dies, but he does not love her. He has another family on the side that he wants to get back to... so, the sooner he is rid of his wife, the sooner he can get on with his other family that he started as an adulterer. Many witnesses have overheard Michael say, "When is that bitch going to die?"
What more evidence do you need that Michael Schiavo is a stone cold killer and a piece of crap of a human?
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:39 am
by Narrock
Drem wrote:shut the fuck up
That the best you got Drem?
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:46 am
by Arlos
Michael didn't get the new woman until YEARS after Terry became a vegetable, and after years of therapy and treatment had not only failed to produce improvements, she'd gotten worse. For all intents and purposes she was already dead. So, by the letter of the law, yes, it might be adultery that he's got a new family, but I don't think there's anyone but the ultra-religious wing-nuttery peanut gallery that would condemn him for it.
And you're wrong too about him looking bad. With the right spin on taking the offer, he would've come out smelling like a rose. Something like, "Though Terry expressed her desire to not be kept alive artificially, her family has impressed upon me the depth of their conviction at keeping her alive, as well as their desire to assume custody. As a result, I am releasing my custody of her over to her family, and moving on with my life. I wish her and them the best, and truly wish that some cure for her could have been found." At that point, the story was not national news highlight, it would've been buried on page 23 of the newspaper, and neither you nor I would've ever heard of it, except at best very briefly in passing.
Now, compare the ease of that with the hell he's had to endure to fulfil his wife's wishes....
-Arlos
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:48 am
by Rust
Mindia wrote:Yes, I believe the nurse. I have no reason not to. She has no logical perceivable explanation of an ulterior motive.
Maybe she's a nutbar Jesus-freak like you? Certainly the judge found her to be basically a total liar. She's also the one who claims the husband said things like 'is the bitch dead yet', and that Terri spoke all the time.
She probably planted the insulin vial herself, and made up the stories about the whole incident.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200503230001CNN, Fox featured ex-Schiavo nurse whose affidavit was dismissed as "incredible" by judge
On March 22, both CNN's Live From... and Fox News' Fox and Friends aired interviews with Carla Sauer Iyer -- a former nurse for Terri Schiavo who in 2003 submitted an affidavit with inflammatory accusations against Terri's husband, Michael Schiavo -- but failed to report questions about Iyer's credibility. Judge George W. Greer, the Florida circuit judge who has presided over several aspects of the Schiavo case, dismissed Iyer's allegations as "incredible" and noted in a September 17, 2003, order that not even Terri Schiavo's parents sought her testimony in the case.
In both appearances, Iyer was presented as a former nurse for Terri Schiavo. Fox introduced her as a "registered nurse in Florida" who "cared for Terri for more than a year between '95 and 1996." In addition, on-screen text described Iyer as "Carla Sauer Iyer; Cared for Terri Schiavo." On CNN, Iyer was introduced as a "nurse who says that she cared for Terri Schiavo [for] more than a year in the mid-1990s." As with Fox, CNN's on-screen text described Iyer as "Terri Schiavo's former nurse." Another on-screen text line presented on CNN stated that Iyer "testified about Terri Schiavo's physical state." However, according to Greer's September 2003 order, Schiavo's parents had not subpoenaed Iyer to testify.
In both a 2003 court affidavit (posted on the website operated by Terri's parents, Robert and Mary Schindler) and her March 22 cable appearances, Iyer maintained that Terri Schiavo was constantly "alert and oriented" while under her care, "saying such things as 'mommy,' and 'help me.' " She claimed that "Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused on Terri's death. Michael would say 'When is she going to die?' 'Has she died yet?' and 'When is that bitch gonna die?' " The affidavit also included her claims that Michael Schiavo expressed the desire to "accelerate" Terri's death, that when Terri was sick and looked as if she might die, "He [Michael] would blurt out 'I'm going to be rich,' " and the assertion that "[i]t is my belief that Michael injected Terri with Regular insulin" to intentionally make her sick. She claimed in her affidavit that "I ultimately called the police relative to this situation, and was terminated the next day."
Greer dismissed Iyer's charges, noting that they -- along with a similar affidavit given by Heidi Law, another nurse who formerly took care of Terri Schiavo -- were "incredible to say the least" and that "[n]either in the testimony nor in the medical records is there support for these affidavits as they purport to detail activities and responses of Terri Schiavo." From Greer's decision:
The remaining affidavits deal exclusively with events which allegedly occurred in the 1995-1997 time frame. The court feels constrained to discuss them. They are incredible to say the least. Ms. Iyer details what amounts to a 15-month cover-up which would include the staff of Palm Garden of Lago Convalescent Center, the Guardian of the Person, the Guardian ad Litem, the medical professionals, the police and, believe it or not, Mr. and Mrs. Schindler. Her affidavit clearly states that she would "call them (Mr. and Mrs. Schindler) anyway because I thought they should know about their daughter." The affidavit of Ms. Law speaks of Terri responding on a constant basis. Neither in the testimony nor in the medical records is there support for these affidavits as they purport to detail activities and responses of Terri Schiavo. It is impossible to believe that Mr. and Mrs. Schindler would not have subpoenaed Ms. Iyer for the January 2000 evidentiary hearing had she contacted them as her affidavit alleges.
You've made it abundantly clear on this board that you're not a very bright person, Mindia. This is just another example of you not being able to think critically, and just parroting what you've been told - you gladly repeat obvious lies because they agree with your worldview. Likewise your ignorance of and lies about evolution, and so on.
It's okay, you're just an example of 'a mind is a terrible thing to waste'. Maybe some day you'll snap out of it, but I sure won't hold my breath. Maybe it was the drugs, maybe you're just weak-minded from birth, maybe it's the serially-apocalyptic whacko cult you got suckered into while looking for something. I don't know, and pretty much don't care, really. But I'll happily point out the results.
--R.
That the best you got Drem?
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:48 am
by Drem
No, it's not, but I don't really want to argue with you because I know you won't listen/care. Anything like this is subjective. I personally don't feel that the government should have anything to do with whether Terry lives or dies. Something like that should only be decided by family, not by arbitrary rules and the wishes of authority figures that are pressing the preservation of life. Especially when it's to preserve a life that hasn't been, cannot be, and never will be salvaged. If it were me that were her, or anyone of my family, I can guarantee that without second thought or regret, each of us would rather move past life than vegetate in a hospital for decades.
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:52 am
by Insanityfair
Mindia wrote:Martrae wrote:Mindia wrote:Martrae wrote:You idiot...how can it be attempted murder when it's court sanctioned and ordered?
I guess you missed the part about her husband injecting her with unnecessary insulin which put her in a state of profuse sweating and anxiety. Idiot.
Proof please? The unsubstantiated word of a disgruntled ex-employee doesn't count. Blood tests done? Paperwork filed?
So your premise is he turned down $10m so he could inherit maybe 30k when alls said and done???? Not to mention all the threats and publicity and court he's had to deal with. You don't think it would be EASIER for him to just walk away? Her parents would love to have custody of her and take care of her until they die....after all the shit he's taken, don't you think that wouldn't be the logical thing to do?
UNLESS, he truly believes she wouldn't want to live that way and is fighting tooth and nail for her.
The nurse saw Michael Schiavo go into Terry's room in the hospice, close the door, and then left 20 minutes later in a rush. The nurse saw this as suspicious (as any reasonable person would) and went in to check on Terry. She noticed Terry was sweating profusely, and had the appearance of being in a panic-stricken state. She found fresh needle puncture wounds under Terry's breast, as well as in her groin area. She then looked around the room and found (
concealed in the trash) the empty vial of insulin. Terry was not a diabetic, and did not need the insulin injections. Giving somebody an insulin injection when they are not diabetic could be dangerous for them if the dose is large enough. It was completely obvious that Michael was trying to kill Terry.
The nurse reported all this to admin, and they didn't take her seriously. She was so certain of everything that she then went to the police. Detectives showed up and started asking a lot of questions at the hospice. The administrator then fired the nurse for getting the police involved.
Now, you being an intelligent person Martrae, (lol) can probably put two-and-two together and realize what was going on here. It doesn't take a genious to figure out that the administrator is working in cahootz (sp?) with Michael Schiavo. Why you continuously defend Michael Schiavo is absolutely beyond comprehension, and is completely absurd.
Yes, I believe the nurse. I have no reason not to. She has no logical perceivable explanation of an ulterior motive.
Well, I guess you're going to say now that some insulin-dependent diabetic borrowed Terry's room for a few minutes to inject themselves and then bury the vial under other trash in Terry's trash can, or... you can think that the nurse planted that vial there in an attempt to frame Michael... give me a break. Use your noggin.
I still want to see a link. When I tried to look this up the majority of sites I found related to this story were prolife sites etc. Not one news source, not one even semi unbiased source. I am really asking out of genuine curiosity.
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:54 am
by Martrae
And what were the results of the police investigation? Or were they in cahoots with Michael too? You do know that a more credible story would be for the nurse to contact the state's ombudsman, as well as the police. They investigate homes and can shut a facility down for stuff like you are insinuating.
To suggest that he would go thru all this to save face is laughable at best. And to suggest that any hospice facility would willingly go along with him displays a staggering lack of intellect. What would be the purpose of it? They are already getting her trust fund (which her husband set up) that pays all her bills. What would they get out of having her die in suspicious circumstances in their facility?
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:55 am
by Lyion
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:22 pm
by Gypsiyee
Mindia, in all of your posts on this board, I've never seen one so bizarre as the ones you're spewing forth on this one.
Honestly, if Michael Schiavo was trying to hurt her, why in gods name would he hide the alleged 'weapon' which is what we'll call the needle, in a trash can IN HER ROOM? That would be just plain foolish.
Arlos always takes the stance of his leftist counterparts... he does not have the ability to think for himself.
Come on now, seriously - that just makes me laugh.. it's like a 400 pound fatass eating a snickers telling someone who's 5 pounds overweight that they need to exercise.
But if Fox News said it, it must be true!!!
If you can find a link to the case that you're speaking of, one that isn't on a hardcore pro-life (but quality of life doesn't matter) site, I'll be more than happy to try and accept any credibilty to the things you say.
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:41 pm
by mofish
Hey guys, Bush is trying to promote a Culture of Life in this country. FEED TERRI!
Oh wait.....
Bush Hypocrisy on Terri Schiavo Ignored by FOX, the "Real Journalism" Network
While FOX News reporters fall over each other trying to prove their concern for the life of Terri Schiavo, nobody is reporting about the cases in Texas where life support is being removed by hospitals over the objections of family members. The law allowing that to happen was signed in 1999 by then-governor George W. Bush.
Lest anyone thinks this is a case of Bush "evolving" in his opinions, just five days ago a Texas hospital removed life support from a baby over the objections of his mother. Yet Bush never made a peep. Neither did FOX News.
According to FOX, keeping Schiavo alive was so important to Bush that he flew back to the White House to sign a bill that Congress planned to enact just for that purpose (no coverage, of course, from FNC about why Congress is focusing on this state court decision involving a private, family matter). From an AP story, FOXNews.com reported:
During previous travels, Bush has had legislation flown to him overnight by military plane for his signature. But in this case, McClellan said that the fact that a woman's life is at stake made it necessary for him to travel to the bill. "Terri Schiavo's feeding tube has been removed and we stand with ... all those who are working to defend her life," he said.
So why does Bush think Schiavo's life is worth saving but the baby's isn't? Could it have something to do with finances? In another case of a Texas hospital trying to cut off life support over the objections of a family, The Houston Chronicle reports,
A patient's inability to pay for medical care combined with a prognosis that renders further care futile are two reasons a hospital might suggest cutting off life support, the chief medical officer at St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital said Monday. Dr. David Pate's comments came as the family of Spiro Nikolouzos fights to keep St. Luke's from turning off the ventilator and artificial feedings keeping the 68-year-old grandfather alive... (The attorney for the family) Mario Caballero said he believes the hospital wants to discontinue care because Nikolouzos' Medicare funding is running out.
Comment: Why hasn't Bush expressed any concern about Mr. Nikolouzos? He wouldn't even have to leave Texas to deal with it.
Last December, FOX News Chairman and CEO Roger Ailes said on C-Span that he requires his reporters to "present the news, if there is more than one side, make sure you have it. If you think there's something else you don't agree with make sure it's in the story." Question for Mr. Ailes: Isn't this the kind of news you said you require your reporters to include? So where is it?
http://www.newshounds.us/2005/03/25/fox ... o.php#more
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:27 pm
by Drem
thread finally delivers
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 5:08 pm
by Arlos
And how about Fox interviewing John Edward, charlatan, asshole, fraud, and supposed "speaker to the dead" about Terry, where he claimed to have "spoken to her soul" or some such blather? How ROFL-inducing is THAT?
-Arlos
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 5:12 pm
by Martrae
I missed that! Is there a transcript?
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 5:59 pm
by Lyion
And he was going to be Vice President. No wonder the Democrats lost.
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:19 pm
by Martrae
John Edward not John Edwards.
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:12 pm
by Jennay
Is this lady dead yet?