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Tossica wrote: Consumers could buy the HD version even if they didn't yet own an HD player and still be able to enjoy the SD version until they could afford a new player..

I don't know anyone that was willing to pay the HD-DVD premium for the side of the disc they may not ever play

it was a neat idea, but not really all that feasible

Lyion wrote:On Demand is already here, but the issue is people like to shop and buy. It's the reason DVDs have done so well despite Cable and pay per view already being widespread.

Plus, HD on demand is limited. Owning a Blu-Ray disc means one can pull it out and play any Pixar movie for ones kids on that Sony 61" TV anytime. People want that. I realize a few people have ludicrous storage units at home, but HD takes up a lot of space. Each Blu-ray disc is 50 Gig double sided.

my company offers a Video on Demand service

essentially you go thru a catalogue of movies, pick the one you want, and it's instantly available at your tv to watch as many times as possible in a 24 hour period

you can stop, pause, rewind, etc etc whenever you like

we're at the point where there's 1600+ streams playing every second of every day

that's huge for a market the size we have (60,000ish customers)

Tikker wrote:

Tossica wrote: Consumers could buy the HD version even if they didn't yet own an HD player and still be able to enjoy the SD version until they could afford a new player..

I don't know anyone that was willing to pay the HD-DVD premium for the side of the disc they may not ever play

it was a neat idea, but not really all that feasible

I think the concept was to not have the DVD version available anymore and have the price of the media be about the same as the DVD version would have cost.

Comcasts HD on demand service is great. The quality is not near as good as HD-DVD or BR but for the average consumer, they would not be able to tell the difference really.

Tossica wrote:

I think the concept was to not have the DVD version available anymore and have the price of the media be about the same as the DVD version would have cost.

that would have been fine, but I think we both know that wasn't going to happen

new and improved always means costs more money

Tikker wrote:

Tossica wrote:

I think the concept was to not have the DVD version available anymore and have the price of the media be about the same as the DVD version would have cost.

that would have been fine, but I think we both know that wasn't going to happen

new and improved always means costs more money

It totally would have happened if Sony had not starved the competing format of content. The DVD manufacturing plants could have all been switched over very easily and hundreds of millions of legacy players could still have been used with the same HD media. Sony could have put an HD-DVD drive in their PS3 and everyone could have been a winner.

So now we have Blu-Ray instead and can look forward to buying two copies of the film or upgrading all of our DVD players and TV's if we want HD media.

Yay.


Fuck you Sony.

Tossica wrote:
It totally would have happened

I think you're living in dreamland

there's no way that you'd be buying HD media for exactly the same price as regular media

Tikker wrote:

Tossica wrote:
It totally would have happened

I think you're living in dreamland

there's no way that you'd be buying HD media for exactly the same price as regular media

Not right away, probably not.

BTW, I have about 30 HD-DVD's and never paid more than $14.99 for one. Oh wait, I take that back. I bought 300 for $24.99. Blu-Ray are just as cheap if you find the buy one get one sales. The retail prices in brick and mortar shops are ridiculous but buying online was cheap.

Actually, I have to agree with Toss here. Selling media that is both a DVD and an HD DVD was a good marketing move and it makes sense. The setback was in the price.

The problem is the HD DVDs still were 30 bucks, so most DVD owners wouldn't pony the 2x price

I agree Bluray needs some sub 199 dollar full featured players, and the consortium to get on the ball with media center PCs with BR Drives, and Apple support.

I think we'll see those this year.

Lyion wrote:Actually, I have to agree with Toss here. Selling media that is both a DVD and an HD DVD was a good marketing move and it makes sense. The setback was in the price.

It was brilliant and pretty much the only way that any HD media would be able to replace DVD completely IMO.

The prices would have come down to regular DVD prices as soon as studios were guaranteed to sell millions of copies as opposed to the meager sales figures that both BR and HD DVD were pulling in. The manufacturing costs of HD DVD were very similar to DVD so the only reason for the more expensive prices was studio greed and really had nothing to do with the format themselves.

Like I said before, if I can get a 2.0 compliant BR standalone for less than $200, I'd consider buying one. Too bad I'll have to wait a year or more before I see one. The more sub $200 players hit the market, the fewer PS3's Sony sells. I wonder how that will play in to the future market?

you contradict yourself an awful lot

first you say that no one watches movies on the ps3, now somehow sub $200 BR standalones = less ps3's bought

Tikker wrote:you contradict yourself an awful lot

first you say that no one watches movies on the ps3, now somehow sub $200 BR standalones = less ps3's bought

Yeah, cuz that's what I said.



Statistics showed that the PS3 has a less than 1 BR movie attach rate so in fact, yes, most people are not watching movies on their PS3 or if they are it's rentals or the occasional buy.

MOST PS3 buyers bought it to play games. It is in fact a game console, no? It also happens to be the only BR player that is worth the money so many people who want a BR player are forced to buy the PS3. Apparantly the numbers of those people are not high enough to have much of an effect on the attach rate though.

If standalone quality players come way down in price, the number of PS3's being sold as movie players will drop.

Where is the contradiction then or are you just being a douchebag?

Tossica wrote:

Tikker wrote:you contradict yourself an awful lot

first you say that no one watches movies on the ps3, now somehow sub $200 BR standalones = less ps3's bought

Yeah, cuz that's what I said.



Statistics showed that the PS3 has a less than 1 BR movie attach rate so in fact, yes, most people are not watching movies on their PS3 or if they are it's rentals or the occasional buy.

MOST PS3 buyers bought it to play games. It is in fact a game console, no? It also happens to be the only BR player that is worth the money so many people who want a BR player are forced to buy the PS3. Apparantly the numbers of those people are not high enough to have much of an effect on the attach rate though.

If standalone quality players come way down in price, the number of PS3's being sold as movie players will drop.

Where is the contradiction then or are you just being a douchebag?

In other words, you're a 360 fanboy. So how many times have you sent it in because of the RRoD? I just love how you bash Sony and are still ok with M$ dicking you around with their shitty hardware. BTW my 360 redringed last year, thank god for Costco's lifetime warranty.

Bloodberri wrote:In other words, you're a 360 fanboy. So how many times have you sent it in because of the RRoD? I just love how you bash Sony and are still ok with M$ dicking you around with their shitty hardware. BTW my 360 redringed last year, thank god for Costco's lifetime warranty.

I guess I missed the part where I brought up MS or the 360. Maybe you could point it out? I was simply stating the fact that more PS3's have sold worldwide than actual Blu Ray movies, that's all. I don't see what it has to do with the Microsoft.

For the record I got my 360 Premium for "free" (I think it ended up costing me about $45) through one of those "Click here to get a FREE Xbox 360" banners when the thing first came out. I've had it for over 2 years and have never had a single problem with it. It's a fun console and I think LIVE is great but it runs too loud. it's tough to find quality games that are not FPS and the accessories are too expensive for it. If it broke I would not replace it until I could do so for under $100. I've NEVER paid more than $100 for a console and I've owned most of them and can't imagine I ever will pay more than that. The possible exception is the Wii I currently have but I bartered about $300 worth of aquarium stuff (which was about $200 too much) I had laying around for it.

I'd hardly call myself a "360 Fanboy" but I'm not a fan of Sony either, you PS3 fanboy!

Oh burn.

If MS had decided to invent their own HD media for the 360, starve the more consumer friendly competing format of content and force everyone that wants to watch HD media to buy their $400+ console when the competing format was offering the same quality for 1/2 that, I'd be just as vocal about saying FUCK YOU to them as I am with Sony.

FUCK SONY along with the BDA. I hope Blu-Ray and the PS3 bankrupts them.

Tossica wrote:

Bloodberri wrote:In other words, you're a 360 fanboy. So how many times have you sent it in because of the RRoD? I just love how you bash Sony and are still ok with M$ dicking you around with their shitty hardware. BTW my 360 redringed last year, thank god for Costco's lifetime warranty.

I guess I missed the part where I brought up MS or the 360. Maybe you could point it out? I was simply stating the fact that more PS3's have sold worldwide than actual Blu Ray movies, that's all. I don't see what it has to do with the Microsoft.

For the record I got my 360 Premium for "free" (I think it ended up costing me about $45) through one of those "Click here to get a FREE Xbox 360" banners when the thing first came out. I've had it for over 2 years and have never had a single problem with it. It's a fun console and I think LIVE is great but it runs too loud. it's tough to find quality games that are not FPS and the accessories are too expensive for it. If it broke I would not replace it until I could do so for under $100. I've NEVER paid more than $100 for a console and I've owned most of them and can't imagine I ever will pay more than that. The possible exception is the Wii I currently have but I bartered about $300 worth of aquarium stuff (which was about $200 too much) I had laying around for it.

I'd hardly call myself a "360 Fanboy" but I'm not a fan of Sony either, you PS3 fanboy!

Oh burn.


FUCK SONY along with the BDA. I hope Blu-Ray and the PS3 bankrupts them.

Lets see here, you backed a format that the 360 has an addon for. Its now dead, and now you're backing digital distribution. You hate Sony and you hate the PS3. You sure you're not a 360 fanboy?

Tossica wrote:If MS had decided to invent their own HD media for the 360, starve the more consumer friendly competing format of content and force everyone that wants to watch HD media to buy their $400+ console when the competing format was offering the same quality for 1/2 that, I'd be just as vocal about saying FUCK YOU to them as I am with Sony.

I didn't know you could fit 50 gigs in 1 disc when the 360 came out at $399. Oh wait, Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey says you can't! If you knew anything, you would've known that M$ was going to put HD-DVD in the 360 but they backed out at the last minute because they had no faith in a new format. And wow about the same quality for 1/2 price. $799 for an HD-DVD capable player when it released is half price of a 1080p capable blu-ray player? Seriously, you should stop making a fool out of yourself. Just suck it up and take it from behind by Sony like you have been by Toshiba and M$.

And...HD-DVD is officially dead. http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/19/live ... -in-tokyo/

What the fuck are you talking about? Seriously.

I bought in to the format that I could afford and that I thought offered the best features and the titles that I liked. I also bought in to the format that I thought had the best chance of replacing DVD and not becoming a niche market.

I don't give a fuck about Microsoft and I'd hardly count my $45 investment in a console that was $400 at the time "taking it in the ass". The fact that Microsoft offered the add-on for the 360 is NOT the reason I bought it, it was because I could start enjoying HD media for $179. Once a standalone player was cheaper, I bought it and sold the addon for nearly what I paid for it. My total investment in HD DVD including 30 movies is under $200 including the player. I'd hardly call that "taking it in the ass".

I'm disappointed HD DVD is dead because now I have to wait at least another year or more before Blu Ray becomes affordable. I like owning movies. I have hundreds of DVD's and am a film fanatic. I am also NOT the average consumer and am willing to invest more of my hard earned money in to silly things like home theaters, etc. I am not "backing digital downloads" I am saying that the average consumer can watch HD films on demand on their current cable box RIGHT NOW for CHEAP so if Sony wants any kind of market share at all, they'd better fucking drop prices on the hardware and software FAST as their window of opportunity is closing.

I'm actually almost to the point where I'm ready to disconnect tv completely and just go with digitial downloads for all my TV shows and movies

it's certain live productions that keep me paying tho (sports, news, stuff of that ilk)

Tikker wrote:I'm actually almost to the point where I'm ready to disconnect tv completely and just go with digitial downloads for all my TV shows and movies

it's certain live productions that keep me paying tho (sports, news, stuff of that ilk)

If my GF would let me get rid of cable, I'd fire those fuckers right now.

Tikker wrote:I'm actually almost to the point where I'm ready to disconnect tv completely and just go with digitial downloads for all my TV shows and movies

it's certain live productions that keep me paying tho ([b]sports, news, stuff of that ilk)[/b]

That's why I have TV. I get my $$$ worth from DirecTV each month.

However, for movies if I can rent a Blu-ray and plop it on my 61" it's worth it. Plus, the movies I do purchase for reuse in BR are money well spent generally. Especially the Pixar ones that get a ton of use.

If I were single and not a family dude, I'd consider something different, though.

Lyion wrote:If I were single and not a family dude, I'd consider something different, though.

HD-Bunny Ears + Downloaded/Streaming Content.

I have forgone the bunny ears even because I don't really care that much about watching the news & sporting events I watch with friends either at their places, at a bar, or at the game itself.

-Adam

Tossica wrote:What the fuck are you talking about? Seriously.

I bought in to the format that I could afford and that I thought offered the best features and the titles that I liked. I also bought in to the format that I thought had the best chance of replacing DVD and not becoming a niche market.

Tossica wrote:Blu-Ray = niche market.

Yeah, your HD-DVD lost so Blu-Ray is now a niche market right?

Tossica wrote:I'm disappointed HD DVD is dead because now I have to wait at least another year or more before Blu Ray becomes affordable. I like owning movies. I have hundreds of DVD's and am a film fanatic. I am also NOT the average consumer and am willing to invest more of my hard earned money in to silly things like home theaters, etc. I am not "backing digital downloads" I am saying that the average consumer can watch HD films on demand on their current cable box RIGHT NOW for CHEAP so if Sony wants any kind of market share at all, they'd better fucking drop prices on the hardware and software FAST as their window of opportunity is closing.

Tossica wrote:I'll say it yet again, congrats on buying the more expensive, inferior, consumer UNfriendly format! Enough people out there are obviously as stupid as you are, joined you in your stupid parade and can now reap the benefits of a market with no competition! Oh well, I mean, no competition besides Toshiba's DVD format which still owns over 99% of the home video market and HD downloads which are rapidly picking up market share.

Geez, make up your mind already. On Demand is not the same as HD downloads. Like i've said before, NOTHING will replace physical media. You just acknowledged this by saying Toshiba's DVD format still owns 99% of the home video market. I'll give you a cookie if you can even explain why studios want a new format in the first place.

Tossica wrote: I bought in to the format that I could afford and that I thought offered the best features and the titles that I liked. I am also NOT the average consumer and am willing to invest more of my hard earned money in to silly things like home theaters, etc.

I'm really confused now. You were willing to invest more into home theater but took the inferior product and cheaper route? BTW were you watching HD movies with the addon at 720p? Just do yourself a favor and go buy a PS3, you'll be much happier.

Dingleberri,

You are totally grasping now and still aren't making any sense? What the fuck is your point?

Blu Ray is expensive and offers very little improvement over DVD to the average consumer. PERIOD

Until this changes, DVD isn't going anywhere and with streaming, on demand, downloads, etc picking up market share, Blu Ray will continue to be the niche market it is right now. Yes, it's a fucking niche market. Holding less than 1% of the market with 2 years under it's belt is very much a niche, no?

So why the fuck are you arguing with me again?

And yes, BOTH of my HDTV's are 1080i or 720p as are MOST of the HDTV's sold to date in the world. 1080i at 47" and 720p at 109" is visually stunning so again, I'm not sure WHAT THE FUCK YOUR POINT IS?

Tossica wrote:Dingleberri,

You are totally grasping now and still aren't making any sense? What the fuck is your point?

Blu Ray is expensive and offers very little improvement over DVD to the average consumer. PERIOD

Until this changes, DVD isn't going anywhere and with streaming, on demand, downloads, etc picking up market share, Blu Ray will continue to be the niche market it is right now. Yes, it's a fucking niche market. Holding less than 1% of the market with 2 years under it's belt is very much a niche, no?

So why the fuck are you arguing with me again?

And yes, BOTH of my HDTV's are 1080i or 720p as are MOST of the HDTV's sold to date in the world. 1080i at 47" and 720p at 109" is visually stunning so again, I'm not sure WHAT THE FUCK YOUR POINT IS?

My point is, you're saying the quality is the same when in fact its not. 720p is *not* the same as 1080p. You didn't answer my question about studios wanting a new format which is the reason why it will replace DVD. You're those typical fanboys that picked a wrong format and are trying to make excuses when its dead. You contradict yourself posts after posts.

Blu Ray is expensive and offers very little improvement over DVD to the average consumer. PERIOD

So was HD DVD, and yet you pushed it like crack ho behind on rent.

You are being hypocritical here.

BR offers more to many, as it is standard on the PS3 and has large tecnological advances compared to standard DVD. As more and more buy big HD TVs, the BR will move to the mainstream and replace DVDs, just as DVDs replaced VCRs.

Bluray is a new technology, and will take time to become more affordable and the norm. Things were tougher due to the war with HD. Now things should stabilize and many who sat out the early adoption will move, as will many current HD DVD people.

Bloodberri wrote:My point is, you're saying the quality is the same when in fact its not. 720p is *not* the same as 1080p. You didn't answer my question about studios wanting a new format which is the reason why it will replace DVD. You're those typical fanboys that picked a wrong format and are trying to make excuses when its dead. You contradict yourself posts after posts.

Ah, more shit I never said and no point. I get it. Shut the fuck up. Cool?