HD vs Blu-Ray

[Tossica]

*edit* Meant for Tikker, not you Griever.

Learn how to read you stupid fuck. Seriously.

On the right setup, there is a large difference between 480p and 1080p. there is not such a great improvement between 720p and 1080p. HD media offers MORE THAN JUST RESOLUTION IMPROVEMENTS. There are enhanced colors, contrast, black levels, interactivity and much improved sound. For the home theater enthusiast, HD media offers the closest thing available to the real theater experience and then some. To the average consumer, it means jack shit because it's really expensive and they do not have the infrastructure in place to take advantage of all that HD media offers. They may have a 1080p TV but it's 37" and they sit 15 ft away. They may have a nice TV and sit close enough to the screen to make out the detail but they are using the built in TV speakers so miss out on the sound. Even the people that go the extra distance to buy everything they need to fully enjoy HD media are still not out of the woods because often times it's going to look "not much better than DVD" unless the display is properly calibrated.

For the average consumer, HD is a fucking mess and a headache that many will not want to bother with. If they can just hit a button on their Comcast remote and get "HD" on demand, that will be good enough.

Is this REALLY so difficult for you to grasp or are you just hell bent on being the biggest douchebag possible?

[Jay]

The only reason there is "hardly any difference" is because you own it. When you get a 1080p projector free you will see night and day I'm sure. I'm sure you got a deal on it or whatever.

[Tossica]

The only reason there is "hardly any difference" is because you own it. When you get a 1080p projector free you will see night and day I'm sure. I'm sure you got a deal on it or whatever.

Uh huh, yeah.

Test it yourself. Put your PS3 in 720p mode if you can, watch a scene from a regular Blu Ray film from your normal viewing spot then watch the same scene in 1080p and come back and tell me about the overwhelming difference between the two. You seriously need to have a side by side comparison and be able to pause the films on the same frame and be right up close to the screen to be able to see "night and day" difference, it's that close. It's not near as dramatic as you would think because of the nature of the source material and the eyes ability to discern details that small at any distance. The overall color depth, black levels. etc and sound are the most dramatic improvement between HD and SD IMO and I get that even with my 720p display.

I'd like to have a 1080p projector but it's a few years down the road and IMO I'm not missing all that much. I'd much rather wait until projectors are cheaper than settle for a 1080p LCD or plasma 1/2 the size.

[Tikker]

Test it yourself. Put your PS3 in 720p mode if you can, watch a scene from a regular Blu Ray film from your normal viewing spot then watch the same scene in 1080p and come back and tell me about the overwhelming difference between the two.

methinks YOU need to do this comparison~

I've done it with tons of TVs

just take a laptop for 2 cables down to the local bestbuy or whatever, and hook up 1 connection to a 720p set, and another to a 1080p set (which I've done)

there's a pretty noticeable difference between 720p and 1080p content

[Lyion]

No need to go to Bestbuy. Just go to Apple Trailers and compare them, although that won't show the difference on a small monitor or TV.

[Tossica]

Just do it in your own home with your own TV and PS3.

[Tikker]

No need to go to Bestbuy. Just go to Apple Trailers and compare them, although that won't show the difference on a small monitor or TV.

err, the size of the screen is mostly irrelevant (assuming it's not something retarded like 4 inches)


on a 17" screen from 18-24" away (ie normal computer viewing distance) you can hit theatre standards for view distance vs screen size, viewing angle, etc etc

you can easily see the differences in it

shit here, I've posted this before, and it's great

http://westinghousedigital.com/1080p_tour.html
and got to 1080p explained

[Tossica]

No need to go to Bestbuy. Just go to Apple Trailers and compare them, although that won't show the difference on a small monitor or TV.

err, the size of the screen is mostly irrelevant (assuming it's not something retarded like 4 inches)


on a 17" screen from 18-24" away (ie normal computer viewing distance) you can hit theatre standards for view distance vs screen size, viewing angle, etc etc

you can easily see the differences in it

shit here, I've posted this before, and it's great

http://westinghousedigital.com/1080p_tour.html
and got to 1080p explained

You can shut the fuck up at any time, really.

Do you honestly think that 1080p explained page shows the real life difference between the different resolutions? Haha, you've got to be kidding. Have you ever even SEEN HD material?

Are you going to convince me that watching movies on a 17" screen is "better" than watching them on my TV which you've never even seen? Are you going to convince me that the difference between 720p and 1080p is so great that it's worth $2500 to me? Are you going to convince me that you have ANY idea what the fuck you are talking about on this subject by using an advertisement on a website written for retards as "proof"?

None of those things are going to happen and you continue to make yourself look more and more stupid each post so seriously, what the fuck is your point?

[Tossica]

Test it yourself. Put your PS3 in 720p mode if you can, watch a scene from a regular Blu Ray film from your normal viewing spot then watch the same scene in 1080p and come back and tell me about the overwhelming difference between the two.

methinks YOU need to do this comparison~

I've done it with tons of TVs

just take a laptop for 2 cables down to the local bestbuy or whatever, and hook up 1 connection to a 720p set, and another to a 1080p set (which I've done)

there's a pretty noticeable difference between 720p and 1080p content

You are full of shit. You've NEVER done this and you know it. If you had, you know you are wrong. Besides, standing 2 ft in front of a screen with your laptop in a Best Buy doesn't really represent the home viewing experience now does it?

It's an easy experiment for those of you with 1080p TV's and PS3's. If you have a large enough screen and sit close enough, you'll probably see minor improvements depending on the film but will agree that there really isn't a dramatic difference in real world viewing experience.

[Tikker]

I have done it, and it's easy to tell you haven't

[Tossica]

I have done it, and it's easy to tell you haven't

You are a liar but that's cool, do what you need to do to try to prove whatever point it is you are trying to make.


Keeping arguing though, seriously. The facts, real world results and common sense are stacked against you but keep trying.

[Tikker]

sorry, what facts have you actually presented?

you championed the shitty format, and now that they've lost, you're telling us that for 99% of the world, there's no actual difference between 720p and 1080p

seriously, go back and read the garbage you've posted

[Tossica]

sorry, what facts have you actually presented?

you championed the shitty format, and now that they've lost, you're telling us that for 99% of the world, there's no actual difference between 720p and 1080p

seriously, go back and read the garbage you've posted

Oh for fucks sake.

Start here.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6810011-1.html

then here are the first few posts from an 847 page thread over on AVS.

Originally Posted by CruelInventions
The independent experts all tend to agree on this point.. 1080p is just about the least important factor in picture quality particularly if you are seated outside the physical boundaries where our human eye can no longer discern the resolution differences. This is a sliding distance scale which depends on screen size in relation to seating distance. Here's one such chart example:

http://hdguru.com/wp-content/uploads...ance_chart.pdf

Color accuracy, contrast, black levels, scaling/processing all come before resolution in importance. The smaller the panel, the less important resolution becomes UNLESS you will be using the panel as a computer monitor (where you'll often be seated within 4ft. of the display, and at a distance that close, you will much more likely notice & appreciate the difference). On a 37" panel, for example, you have to be within 5ft. to tell the difference. And that's under ideal circumstances.

Disregard any poster who suggests otherwise. They are seeing something other than the true difference between 1080p & 720p when they claim they can tell the difference even on smaller (37"-42") panels beyond 5-6ft. The difference they claim to see is likely to be in the processing of non-native signal, i.e., panels will typically display their native rate better than they can a lesser resolution which the panel then has to scale to match it's own.

If you have a 1080p 42" panel, for example, assuming for a moment that you are seated outside the optimal seating boundary for fully resolving (seeing) 1080p content, the panel will still often look better displaying 1080p content merely because it doesn't have to scale the resolution. Feed the 1080p panel some other lesser resolution which then must be upscaled to match the panels 1080p native rate, then on all but the most expensive panels with excellent processing, the image will look inferior not because 720p is a lesser resolution, but because the panel simply cannot do a very good job scaling it. Or, maybe the panel handles scaling these duties well, but the particular 1080p model just so happens to have better color rendition, contrast, etc., than another particular example of a 720p panel, and as a result, it looks better under any circumstances, regardless of their comparative resolution capabilities.


Originally Posted by Nmlobo
The 1080p sets are the only sets that will display both broadcast formats of 720p and 1080i with no loss of detail. They upconvert (scale) the 720p to 1080p (screen resolution) and deinterlace the 1080i/60 and display 1080p/30 with no detail loss.

A 768 display has to scale every input signal.


Originally Posted by Mongoos150
Contrast, color saturation and color accuracy are all more important than resolution. Your display could very well produce a better picture because of better color saturation/contrast and have nothing to do with the bump in resolution. The difference in sets under 42" is negligible - people only think they can see a difference because *usually* they are seeing differences in contrast, color saturation and color accuracy as opposed to resolution differences.

Feel free to check out the entire thread here.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=768167

Once you are done there, go read this one if you are still not convinced that the average person WITHOUT a calibrated well thought out home theater will probably see very little benefit in 1080p but still get the most important benefits of the HD media with a 720p display.

The chart tells all:

http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html

http://www.carltonbale.com/2006/11/1080p-does-matter/

More?

K

http://www.electronichouse.com/article/ ... _vs_1080p/





Do you seriously want to continue to argue, lie and bullshit in this thread or are you ready to drop it yet?

[Tikker]

do you even read the shit you're quoting?

The independent experts all tend to agree on this point.. 1080p is just about the least important factor in picture quality particularly if you are seated outside the physical boundaries where our human eye can no longer discern the resolution differences

I mean seriously, could you have referenced anything dumber?

of course there's going to be no value to spending big money on 1080p if you're sitting outside the distance at which you could resolve the difference

you could say the same fucking thing about 720p and 480p

you really have no idea what you're talking about at all

[Tossica]

Haha, everything I posted pretty much backs up everything I've said in the last few pages. You would have been better off just shutting the fuck up a long time ago.

[Tikker]

so your whole point is that if you're not going to sit at proper viewing distance, then resolution means fuck all?


well no shit

that's like saying that great audio is wasted on deaf people

[Tossica]

Are you seriously saying that after all of that you still can't comprehend what I'm talking about? You realize you are basically publicly admitting you are retarded right? Why would you do that to yourself? I don't get it. You've had like 1/2 dozen chances to just shut up and back away yet here you still are, like the beat down crackwhore who doesn't mind the backhand so much because at least she is getting SOME attention.

I guess MY point is that there is more to the movie watching experience than resolving detail. I can't think of many laptops under $3000 that have 1080p capable displays so your first point is kinda dumb anyhow.

Resolution isn't everything in the movie viewing experience especially when the screen is too small or you are sitting too far away, you know this as well as I do.

Quit being a douche.

PS. I am sitting right in the sweet spot at home but the minimal gain between 720p and 1080p is not worth the upgrade price. Maybe in a few years.

Again, there is more to home theater than resolution but you can't help but be a douche.

No.... not really. I'm not sure how you deduced that from my post. 480p source looks fantastic on my TV. 720p looks amazing and I'm sure 1080p would be even better but not worth spending $2500 on as the visual difference would be marginal at best on all but a handful of the most pristine transfers

The fact that you consider anything less than 1080p to be an inferior picture based on that alone is ignorant. So much more goes in to the overall viewing experience. Color balance and accuracy, contrast ratio, black level, etc.

Of course, you know all of this though, you just can't stop with the douchecraft.

True sorta, some are in 1080i but on demand movies, etc are 720p. To really get the benefit of 1080p over 720p, you need a large (50"+) screen and need to be sitting no further than 8-10ft away and at that distance it's going to be barely noticable. If you are 5ft away, the resolution should be noticable but the quality of the transfer to BR or HD DVD is a huge factor as well. Many HD discs don't look much better than their SD versions. Sad but true. Shitty transfers and overly "soft" source material make for lackluster HD content.

Most games are not actually 1080p on either console BTW, they are upscaled.

True. I'd love to have one and will some day, I'm sure. It's just not worth $2500 to me which is about what it would cost to replace my current projector right now.

My 22" monitor is 1080p but I'm sure not blown away by the viewing experience because the screen is too small to be fully immersed in and watching movies on a PC is ghey.

On the right setup, there is a large difference between 480p and 1080p. there is not such a great improvement between 720p and 1080p. HD media offers MORE THAN JUST RESOLUTION IMPROVEMENTS. There are enhanced colors, contrast, black levels, interactivity and much improved sound. For the home theater enthusiast, HD media offers the closest thing available to the real theater experience and then some. To the average consumer, it means jack shit because it's really expensive and they do not have the infrastructure in place to take advantage of all that HD media offers. They may have a 1080p TV but it's 37" and they sit 15 ft away. They may have a nice TV and sit close enough to the screen to make out the detail but they are using the built in TV speakers so miss out on the sound. Even the people that go the extra distance to buy everything they need to fully enjoy HD media are still not out of the woods because often times it's going to look "not much better than DVD" unless the display is properly calibrated.

For the average consumer, HD is a fucking mess and a headache that many will not want to bother with. If they can just hit a button on their Comcast remote and get "HD" on demand, that will be good enough.

Is this REALLY so difficult for you to grasp or are you just hell bent on being the biggest douchebag possible?

Test it yourself. Put your PS3 in 720p mode if you can, watch a scene from a regular Blu Ray film from your normal viewing spot then watch the same scene in 1080p and come back and tell me about the overwhelming difference between the two. You seriously need to have a side by side comparison and be able to pause the films on the same frame and be right up close to the screen to be able to see "night and day" difference, it's that close. It's not near as dramatic as you would think because of the nature of the source material and the eyes ability to discern details that small at any distance. The overall color depth, black levels. etc and sound are the most dramatic improvement between HD and SD IMO and I get that even with my 720p display.

It's blatantly obvious that my point is that you are a douchebag.

[Tikker]

Seriously, there is NO WAY Sony is going to put HD-DVD out of the game. The only people watching Blu-Ray movies are the people who bought PS3's of which there are very few. There is no way Sony is going to sell enough PS3's to make Blu-Ray any kind of standard. HD-DVD has some megaton bombs they will be dropping very soon that there is no way Blu-Ray can compete with. HD-DVD will be the standard to replace DVD's and Blu-Ray will remain a niche market like UMD's are today. The "war" is still in it's infancy and Toshiba has yet to even start fighting. All they have to do at this point is wait a while longer until the demand for HD content is higher and then work with existing studios to start manufacturing more HD-DVD/SD combo disks and phase out the current SD disks and it's game over. If a consumer can buy a disk that will play in their current DVD players AND contains the HD version for when they buy a new (sub $200) player and it costs the same amount of money as a regular DVD, there will be no more "war". Blu-Ray cannot compete in that market. Everyone but Sony is taking it in the ass right now because standalone Blu-Ray players by Pioneer, etc are NOT selling and Sony's promises to Blu-Ray supporting studios of selling 10-15 million PS3' this year is NOT happening. Besides the Paramount/Dreamworks announcement to go HD-DVD exclusive along with Universal, expect Warner to make a similar announcement soon.

[Tossica]

[quote="Tikker"][/quote]

Yeah, that topic has been covered. Nice comeback though. Douchebag.

[Tikker]

all you do is rant about shit that you're wrong about

hd-dvd will pwn blu-ray *roar*

oh, hd-dvd lost? well, download on demand will pwn blu-ray *roar*

oh, you watch 1080p? well it's not better than 720p anyways *roar*

my 720p setup with scrounged parts owns your 1080p setup *roar*


that's about the extent of your posts in this thread I believe

[Tossica]

Give me a break Tikker. Most of this thread is you saying stupid shit, getting corrected and then you posting that HD DVD lost over and over again. You've learned more from me in this thread alone about HDTV, Blu Ray, HD DVD and home theater in general than you care to admit so will you please shut the fuck up?

[Tikker]

sorry chief, you're the one who's been corrected over and over and then over again on multiple things

you just keeping changing the tangent of your whine every 3-4 pages

you've gone from touting hd-dvd as the champion, talked at great length about how 1080i and 1080p will effectively resolve to the same image on a 1080p screen (ie, when you thought hd-dvd was winning, you were hardcore 1080p fan)

you then changed to say that only 1% of the population could see the difference between 720p and 1080p anyways, so it didn't matter than hd-dvd lost

to muddle it up, you keep bringing in points that there are different facets of the "HD experience" ignoring of course that those will be the same in both 1080p and 720p content, with really the only difference being the resolution (which according to you, doesn't matter!)

480p is ~350k pixels of resolution
720p is ~921k pixels of resolution
1080p is ~2075k pixels of resolution

I'm sorry your old drug-addled eyes can't tell the difference, but at double the resolution, true 1080p content on a 1080p screen viewed at the proper distance absolutely wtfpwns 720p content on a 720p(or even a 1080p screen)

maybe in 10 years when 1080p projectors hit woot, or you can get one for free you'll finally be able to see the difference

[Tossica]

You obviously haven't even read what I've posted so why the fuck are you here again? I don't get it.

[Lyion]

Forget 1080p. Get this setup and I'll be impressed:

http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-986642 ... =nefd.only

Its an ultra-high resolution (4,096 x 2,160) picture from the Sony SRX-R110 Digital Cinema Projector. The uber Sony produces four times the resolution of a 1080p image.

[Jay]

Jerking off as we speak.