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Drem wrote:why would you tell your child not to play a game like FEAR or GTA? if you do that they're just going to play it at their friends house and lie to you about it. agrajag is totally right, imo. anything you try to hide or block them off from, they will find a way to do it. kids are curious, not obedient. i don't think you can steer a kid in the direction you want unless you're a total asshole of a parent and you want a really sheltered child.

i've been watching rated R movies and playing contra since i was 5 and i haven't ever thought of rampaging through a city with a spreadfire machine gun

and isn't it just the USA's firearm crime rate that's really high? i'm pretty sure japan's children play just as many video games and their crime rate is a lot lower... so are most other countries. i really don't think video games are the problem

Again, US crime rates are measured by arrests and other countries' are measured by convictions.

Drem wrote:why would you tell your child not to play a game like FEAR or GTA? if you do that they're just going to play it at their friends house and lie to you about it. agrajag is totally right, imo. anything you try to hide or block them off from, they will find a way to do it. kids are curious, not obedient. i don't think you can steer a kid in the direction you want unless you're a total asshole of a parent and you want a really sheltered child.

I am not referring to the 14/15 and up crowd. The ones that are really disturbing to me are the parents buying it for their 5,6,7,8 etc year olds. Come on, man. Sit back and think rationally for a moment. Little children do not need to be seeing that stuff. I don't care what the parenting "style" is, they do not need to be seeing that.

Drem wrote:i've been watching rated R movies and playing contra since i was 5 and i haven't ever thought of rampaging through a city with a spreadfire machine gun

Once again, watching movies is different than playing todays video games. You have to see it through the mind of a child. -They- are doing it. They don't have a very firm grasp of reality yet, whether you believe they do or not. They are stomping that cop's head into the pavement or shooting an innocent person. This isn't little stick men on an Atari 2600 anymore, this is damn near real. They play these games and it doesn't seem like such a bad thing to be doing that anymore. It isn't just a man falling down, it is a very real looking man going through a very real death scene.

Drem wrote:and isn't it just the USA's firearm crime rate that's really high? i'm pretty sure japan's children play just as many video games and their crime rate is a lot lower... so are most other countries. i really don't think video games are the problem

See the comment about crime statistics. Better yet talk to someone who was a CJ major. They could tell you how those little charts of Harrison's equal about jack shit in regards to reality. (Not to mention how they can really help mayors get re-elected.)

See the comment about crime statistics. Better yet talk to someone who was a CJ major. They could tell you how those little charts of Harrison's equal about jack shit in regards to reality. (Not to mention how they can really help mayors get re-elected.)

So in other words... actually recorded violence rates aren't important... what you FEEL is what determines the truth?

How do you know there is a violence problem linked with video games if you see statistics as invalid?

Recorded violence rates are skewed man how the fuck many times does it have to be fucking explained to you people?

Find a different angle. better yet try to keep a straight face while you tell me that it's A-OK to let a 5 year old see people's fuckin brains getting bashed in and women getting raped.

WTF was I thinking trying to get a rational morality discussion on this message board of all fucking places...

No one said it was ok for a 5 year-old to play games like GTA. Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups. You're the father of a fuck-up apparently.(soon will be with your massive paranoia and sheltering)

"I'm going to ignore statistics because I think they're wrong"

You're fucking retarded.

Have any of you people watched your average little kid play playstation 2 ? For the most part ( my observations) the controlls of just about any game are way to complex and they loose interest fast. Not gta but hero based games where your the good guy i can see a kid getting into if they could play them. Realistic or not Gta is a lil extreme as an example cuz im pretty sure its the worst one.


Oh and If at 7 your kid cant tell for the most part whats real and whats fake maybe you should cancel the homeschool thing cuz you might not be doing to good at it.

Psychologically I believe 8 is the general age when they, on average, are able to discern the difference between the two.

But, that's neither here nor there in this discussion.

Ouchyfish sounds like one of those christian whiny bitches who are so clueless I wouldn't even entrust a child in their care.

I didn't let my neices and nephew watch me play half of the games I did. I still don't think it would have adversely affected them in any way if they had watched me play them. They ask questions constantly, and they would have gotten an explanation. (they did when they'd walk in on me playing games, they knew the difference much younger than 8 as a result of these)

My son is 10 and most of my games and movies are off limits to him. They are off limits not because I think they will turn him in to a violent criminal but because many deal with adult subject matter that at 10 years old, is just not something he needs to be worried about. There are certain rated "R" movies and Mature games he can watch and play but they are hand picked by me.

Diekan wrote:

AdivinaDarkfyre wrote:Argue all you want, I don't think video game violence makes kids violent but I also think there is something very fucking wrong with you if you let your young child play games like grand theft auto.

huh? if the games have no effect on them then why would you have a problem with them playing them?

Because childhood is not the time for that. They will see enough violence and hate as they grow up. I guess I think that at 6 years old they should be playing with trucks and dolls, not shooting people and swearing. By all means when the child is a little older it is ok, but kids do carry over certain things such as the language they hear. Nothing is more charming than hearing a 6 year old say "Fuck you".

I think a couple years make all the difference in verbal self control. I know when I was in elementary school the only games out were not so violent, so I can't speak on that, but as far as music goes my mother never made me listen to edited stuff etc, however she sure as hell did not buy me the Dookie tape when I was 6. I think I was about 9 before I started to get away with stuff like that, because I think at that point a child has enough common sense to not go to class and sprout of things like shit and fuck because its funny.

A kid in first grade or lower will repeat stuff like that just for shock value and because its "funny", and then you look like a loser parent.

I also agree with Drem, BANNING something from your home only creates the need for them to go behind your back. However, you do not need to go out of your way to introduce them to it. When your kid is 5 or 6 years old, they do not need you to bring home GTA because you think they would like it. If they ask for it when they are a bit older, sit and have a talk with them about being responsible and then sure go get it if you feel they can handle the difference between game and reality.

It's amazing how everyone here for or against has been able to discuss this like an adult except for the forklift driver.

Grats, Harrison.

Now go look at your own drunk sloppy redneck lookin mug in the mirror and mumble "pwned" at your own self ownage:

"I didn't let my neices and nephew watch me play half of the games I did."

Gee..I wonder why that could have been....

"Ouchyfish sounds like one of those christian whiny bitches who are so clueless I wouldn't even entrust a child in their care."

Why Harry? One of them "whiny bitch Christians" would call for all of those kinds of games to be banned. I never once advocated that, rather only a tighter control on the shit getting to children.

So because I care that children do not see graphic depictions of rape, murder, etc, I shouldn't be entrusted. So hmm, who should? You? Someone who feels it's ok? Get a clue, Harry..and get one sometime this decade.

Your commentary on this is pretty much moot anyways due to your immature view on the world. ("Hey y'all I'm drunk and I'm being a young dumbfuck like all the other 23 year olds-am I cool or wut?") It is obvious from your knee-jerk angst-ridden responses and 95% insult/5% actual discussion remarks that you are incapable of grasping any issue. (Go ahead-use the "I was drunk" excuse. It might bail you out a few more times.)

I guarantee your views will change as you mature mentally (whenever that will take place) and when you have children of your own. Until you do, you really cannot begin to fathom the concept. Nieces, nephews, whatever the fuck inbred shit is dumped on you to play babysitter with pales in comparison to having a child of your own.

OUCHY how old do you think someone should be to be allowed to play grand theft auto ?

Well, considering the same shit would garner you a rated "R" rating, 17 sounds like a good number, however I think 16+ would be ok. Why anyone gets some kind of sick pleasure out of playing a game where your goal is virtually raping, brutally murdering, etc-not fantasy violence either-shit that looks like it was taken from a "Faces of Death" video-and calling it suitable gaming entertainment is still a fucking mystery to me.

However, people do like it and like pot, alcohol, porn, etc, adults should be allowed to enjoy it as long as they aren't bothering anyone else.

I can't post anymore in this thread. All I am doing is repeating myself over and over and then you get the trailer park responses from internet tough guy wannabe Harrison mixed in lowering the IQ of NT every time he opens his dicksucker.

Keep trying, though, Finny..with a little work those "How to sound tough on the net and win debates by blunt force ignorance" lessons might actually pay off and impress someone. I wouldn't count on it though.

Theres rape in gta ? i know of a part where you kill a rapist wich is awsome imo but i odnt know a part where you rape anyone. Its totally a game for teenagers. BAD guy AGAINST ALL AUTHORITY i think for a game should be more like 13 ish. But i spose thats just 2 diffrent opinions. Ive allways vented and escaped into games thats why i feel strongly but im not everyone else. I feel like i woulda missed out not playing the garbage ive played. Also in the gta games i really like the time period jokes. For the most part i play it for the missions though not to snipe people from buildings and kill cops that alone prolly seperates me from everyone else who plays.

Mighty difficult to be a redneck way the fuck up in Massachusetts, eh?

For one touting off about insults and debate, you're throwing just as many yourself. How does one gain entry to Hypocrisy Hotel? Do I need a special Dumbfuck keycard?

Just for the record, I don't think exposing young kids (10ish and younger) to really graphic games is a good idea. Kids in general are stupid and I think it is common sense that bombarding them with violent images isn't particularly good for them.

Past that age though, once they get to 12-13+, if they want to play the game, most of them will. If their parents forbid it, they'll go to a friend that has it. Or they'll get an older sibling/person to buy/rent it for them. Or they'll pirate it off the internet.

Parents forbidding it outright is just going to increase their desire to play it. If the kid really insists, rent it and let them play it and sit with them and just make sure they know it isn't real - and that running over random pedestrians with their own stolen vehicles and blowing up police helicopters with a bazooka is in actuality a very naughty thing to do.

If anything should be done legally about these games, the limit should be to treat hyperviolent games in the same way you treat violent movies. Have some legal limits, but don't particularly enforce them strictly past asking for ID when the kids look too young.

Governmental over-regulation of media is just a cop-out for lazy parents who can't give up having TV/Video Games act as their primary babysitter. If you don't want your young kids exposed to games like that - Don't buy them! (OMG). If you really want to go the extra mile, don't own a TV or Game Console. Or lock them up/disconnect them when you aren't around. Or don't get cable or buy one of those control chips. It's not hard - unless you're addicted and dependent on those yourself.

Why anyone gets some kind of sick pleasure out of playing a game where your goal is virtually raping, brutally murdering, etc-not fantasy violence either-shit that looks like it was taken from a "Faces of Death" video-and calling it suitable gaming entertainment is still a fucking mystery to me.

1) Ever played a fist person shooter (ie counterstrike) and enjoyed it? That answers your question. It's the same basic principle. Probably a big appeal for these sorts of violent games is to serve as a harmless outlet for aggressive feelings. I'd actually be willing to bet that GTA can be psychologically healthy for some older children (15-16ish) in some respects taking that into consideration.

Also... have you ever played or watched a lot of GTA being played? The violence isn't that realistic. The AI is markedly more realistic than usual (pedestrian reactions, ect), but the death and violence itself isn't particularly that gruesome compared to other violent games: it's basically just blood spurts and bodies that fall down and don't move. Kids with an understanding of reality vs fantasy should be able to tell the difference easily to the degree that it doesn't pose much psychological harm.

Harrison just cuz you live way up north doesnt mean you dont have rednecks or cant be one yourself. I live in michigan and its full of em.

wtf are you talking about ? some of you do not even have kids

Martrae wrote:I agree that young children especially shouldn't be exposed to the violence, etc in games like GTA. They may not turn to violence as a teen or murder anyone, but what about later and other acts of violence?

yeah I slap Martrae around all the time after I eat my spinach. Too much Popeye when I was young.

The point I am trying to make on that comment is that violence in our media has always been there. Sure there is escalation but how many of you read books like the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings when you were a teenager? How many of us read Cask of Amontialdo(sp?)? I did when I was 14. I dont recall walling anyone up in a brick wall. Save for my kids when they misbehave.

Yes I dont believe that kids should be watching violent shows but, the government 'stepping in' on this is out of the bounds of the government jurisdiction.

Ouch, I understand your concern but I also dont believe that it is a major issue in that regards. I am more concerned with people like Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen sporting their 'hooker line' of clothes, and Brtiney Spears that alot of kids seem to look up to for whatever reason getting wasted and high and getting married in Las Vegas by Elvis and his Alien abducter.

I do agree that a child at the age of 5 or so should not be playing games like this but again I am not as concerned about that as I am about the actions of thier role models.

Real issues:

1. Horrible, pathetic, neglectful parenting
2. Deplorable school systems failing at every turn imaginable
3. Decline of the traditional family unit (My family is the only one out of my friends with a mother, and a father in the same household...THE ONLY)

Violent media? It's not even on the fucking radar.

What about games like call of duty. I dont see that mentioned in here but on the xbox 360 it looks like your killing real people allmost. Or is that ok cuz your wasting nazis ?

Or is that ok cuz your wasting nazis ?

Absolutely!

Nazis are like the human equivalent of robots

They aren't real people so you can mow them down all you want without remorse ;D

It may seem silly but I don't let my son play any games with lifelike violence against "real" people. He can play some fighting games depending on how graphic they are and how he behaves while he is playing. He can play some shooters like Halo, Star Wars themed ones, games that aren't overly graphic or where he fights monsters, etc but no war games like CoD, Medal of Honor etc.

I'm kind of in Tossica's boat on this one. Cartoonish violence has been around a long time. But some of the games are getting so advanced they're like thug training simulators.

Tossica wrote:It may seem silly but I don't let my son play any games with lifelike violence against "real" people. He can play some fighting games depending on how graphic they are and how he behaves while he is playing. He can play some shooters like Halo, Star Wars themed ones, games that aren't overly graphic or where he fights monsters, etc but no war games like CoD, Medal of Honor etc.

I completely agree.

agree also...these are the rules for my ten year old.