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Lyion, you sound like all of your drug use/abuse talking points came directly from after school specials and the D.A.R.E. program.

How the fuck AM I the enabler?

All I am saying is that I've learned to reserve judgement on drug addicts as I have not walked in their shoes. I don't have any idea how my life might be different had I been sexually abused as a child, done tours of combat in Vietnam, grown up on the streets of NYC, etc. I had a rough life as a kid and throughout my teenage years but for the most part I have been a responsible adult, made smart decisions, taken responsibility for my actions and done my best to make sure my son has a better childhood than I did. So like I said PLEASE leave the bullshit lectures alone. You don't have ANYTHING to teach me on this subject.

Tikker wrote:it's kinda funny watching people who were hard core party people come to the realization that they can make something of themselves by growing up, and not doing stupid shit all the time

the best part is when they realize that they used to look down on people for not partying, and those people are now their bosses~

Lol you take ignorance to a whole new level of hilarity.

Most people get their partying out through their late teens and early twenties. These people start in their early twenties and are horrible socially inept fuckwads when they do so. Starting to drink at 21 or 22? That's fucking stupid.

come back when you make something of yourself harrison

until then stfu

Or what, you'll call me mean names?

Shut the fuck up.

Tossica wrote:Abusing drugs to the point of no return is a choice they made but the reason for the need to self medicate was something beyond their control.

Tossica wrote: It's not the drugs that are the problem, it's the fact that people do horrible things to other people that is the problem.

People hurt and find ways to make the pain go away.

I disagree, which was my posts and reasonings prior. Excuses and enabling, but ignoring the crux of the actual root cause problem in almost every case.

Lyion wrote:

Tossica wrote:Abusing drugs to the point of no return is a choice they made but the reason for the need to self medicate was something beyond their control.

Tossica wrote: It's not the drugs that are the problem, it's the fact that people do horrible things to other people that is the problem.

People hurt and find ways to make the pain go away.

I disagree, which was my posts and reasonings prior. Excuses and enabling, but ignoring the crux of the actual root cause problem in almost every case.

Take away all of the existing drugs in the world and people will create new ones. FACT. People want to get high. FACT. It's the urge to self medicate that is the problem, not the drugs. FACT. Drugs are created to fill a need, not the other way around. FACT.

I hate to agree with the dirty hippie....but he's right.

Not to mention, people get addicted to things like Gambling and shopping, which obviously are entirely unrelated to drugs whatsoever.

Yes, many drugs DO have a component to them that causes physical addiction. But when and if use of a drug turns to ABUSE of the drug is an entirely different kettle of fish.

-Arlos

PS. insulting someone for sticking to a medically prescribed regimen of antidepressants (such as Prozac) taken in exact accordance with a doctor's directions to correct a serious illness (like bipolar syndrome, depression, etc) is like insulting a diabetic and calling them an insulin addict.

Arlos wrote:PS. insulting someone for sticking to a medically prescribed regimen of antidepressants (such as Prozac) taken in exact accordance with a doctor's directions to correct a serious illness (like bipolar syndrome, depression, etc) is like insulting a diabetic and calling them an insulin addict.

Not quite sure what this is directed at. My point was solely the heavy drugs and Toss' declaration that people can't help themselves in regards to them.

You need to read through the entire thread, Arlos.

Tikker wrote:People who are drinking daily, or on prozac are junkies too

they just somehow escape the moniker

pretty sure he was referencing that

That wasn't directed at you, Lyion.

Tossica wrote:

Tikker wrote:People who are drinking daily, or on prozac are junkies too

they just somehow escape the moniker

Agreed

THAT is what I was referring to with the PS. Strangely enough, Toss and I don't agree on everything, and that was one subject I felt strongly about.

The first part of it WAS directed at you though, and in that case was supporting Toss, in that it's not necessarily the drugs that are the problem. If it was solely drugs that caused addiction, you wouldn't have people becoming addicted to gambling, shopping, etc. Addiction is a function of personality; some people get addicted, some don't. Some people can drink regularly, but don't cross the line into alcoholism, others do. Same "drug", different result.

THAT is the point I was making. You have to look at whether the drug in question is being used or being abused, and what factors led that person to fall into addiction, if it is abuse. Blanket statements such as you were making are inaccurate at best, and highly misleading at worst.

-Arlos

Ah, my bad. I'm just so used to arguing with you regarding everything.

My point was solely regarding hard drugs, and Toss' insinuation regarding that based on my posts above.

Someone addicted to shopping, gambling, or even alcohol or weed has a co dependency issue. That is a real problem. Likewise, someone who needs a drug due to actual physical pain is also different.

Someone addicted to a known devastating, addictive hard drug that they never should have taken in the first is solely what my point was about, and refutation of Toss' above points.

Arlos wrote:PS. insulting someone for sticking to a medically prescribed regimen of antidepressants (such as Prozac) taken in exact accordance with a doctor's directions to correct a serious illness (like bipolar syndrome, depression, etc) is like insulting a diabetic and calling them an insulin addict.

there's a big difference between the people who take prozac as prescribed and the people who can't make it thru the day without them

seriously, stop being stupid

Evermore wrote:There is a point where the "decision" to do drugs morphs into a necessity to do drugs.

exactly my point

Tikker wrote:

Arlos wrote:PS. insulting someone for sticking to a medically prescribed regimen of antidepressants (such as Prozac) taken in exact accordance with a doctor's directions to correct a serious illness (like bipolar syndrome, depression, etc) is like insulting a diabetic and calling them an insulin addict.

there's a big difference between the people who take prozac as prescribed and the people who can't make it thru the day without them

seriously, stop being stupid

Yeah, fuck those mentally ill people. They're so worthless.

Tikker wrote:

Arlos wrote:PS. insulting someone for sticking to a medically prescribed regimen of antidepressants (such as Prozac) taken in exact accordance with a doctor's directions to correct a serious illness (like bipolar syndrome, depression, etc) is like insulting a diabetic and calling them an insulin addict.

there's a big difference between the people who take prozac as prescribed and the people who can't make it thru the day without them

seriously, stop being stupid

This is why your ignorance is fucking hilarious.

You can't compare them to addicts and you're so fucking retarded, you do so anyways.

Seriously, stop being a sheltered ignorant fuck.

Tikker wrote:

Arlos wrote:PS. insulting someone for sticking to a medically prescribed regimen of antidepressants (such as Prozac) taken in exact accordance with a doctor's directions to correct a serious illness (like bipolar syndrome, depression, etc) is like insulting a diabetic and calling them an insulin addict.

there's a big difference between the people who take prozac as prescribed and the people who can't make it thru the day without them

seriously, stop being stupid

the problem with your statement is that more and more people are going from "being medicated as the doctor prescribes" to "I cant make it with out them". just cause the drug is prescription doesnt mean it isnt addictive and you cannot become a "junkie"

Evermore wrote:

the problem with your statement is that more and more people are going from "being medicated as the doctor prescribes" to "I cant make it with out them". just cause the drug is prescription doesnt mean it isnt addictive and you cannot become a "junkie"

you missed my point completely *shocking*

harrison isn't even worth responding to

No i got your point. Once again, you have jumped right to conflict instead of considering what was being said. I simply pointed out the gaping hole in your statement. This problem I am referring to has gotten to the point where radio comercials are being run talking about telling people to not to be afraid to let your doctor know if you think you are having this issue.

I dont agree with Harri to often but in this case your ignorance really is fucking hilarious.

quick, explain to me why someone addicted to heroin is a junkie, but someone addicted to booze or prozac is NOT a junkie?



that's the whole point~


I'll even say it again, since i'm sure you'll whine about it

taking meds as prescribed, is not being addicted or a junkie

when you reach the point of addiction, and youjust can't get thru a day without your narcotic of choice, you're a junkie

Tikker wrote:quick, explain to me why someone addicted to heroin is a junkie, but someone addicted to booze or prozac is NOT a junkie?

when you reach the point of addiction, and you just can't get thru a day without your narcotic of choice, you're a junkie

I'm not going to "whine", Tikk. I am going to let you make an asshole out of yourself again. Please continue. Why dont you regale us with your tales of how you were addicted to something? this should be interesting.

A diabetic can't make it through the day without HIS drug of choice: Insulin. By your definition, Tikker, he's a junkie.

Yes, absolutely there are people with sufficiently strong mental problems that they cannot get through the day without their prescribed dose of Prozac (or whatever other anti-depressant they're on). Frequently, many mental issues are caused by chemical imbalances in the brain, due to improper production of neurotransmitters. Antidepressants frequently act to stabilize that imbalance, and as such are just as vital towards that person's proper functioning as insulin is to a diabetic. They literally can't get through the day without their Prozac, yet they are in no way an "addict".

Now, I agree with you about someone "needing" to guzzle booze daily not being called an addict, precisely, because we refer to such people as alcoholics, which really is just an extra term meaning, of course, "booze addict". I'll even agree with you freely that someone who, of their own accord without any medical direction, is popping 5-6 valium a day is fully an addict. What I will never agree with though is someone who needs their prescription medication to function normally being referred to as an addict, no matter how often they are directed to take it, or how necessary it is for them to survive.

Lyion, as for your assertion that it's the drugs at fault, I must disagree with you there, too. I know, personally, people who have taken highly addictive substances without ever becoming addicted to them. I don't disagree that people with even a trace of an addictive nature should stay far away from them, however. Frequently though, as Tossica said, they're drawn to them precisely because they are so powerful, and they feel (however erroneously in absolute terms) that their day-to-day existence is so unpleasant that they cannot bear it without something to relieve their suffering. Once someone like that starts down the road, they're gone by the first or second hit, where someone else could take the same substance 5 or 6 times and never feel the need to touch it again.

It really is a disease, and some people are just more susceptible than others, just like some people have amazing immune systems and never get colds, flu, etc, and others seem to constantly be getting sick with SOMETHING. Now, admittedly, given the physical addictive natures of stuff like heroin, testing out your resistance to addiction by taking it with any regularity is like testing your immune system by injecting yourself with live copies of the Ebola virus, but still, it IS possible for some people. So blaming the drugs themselves is misleading, which was my point from the beginning.

-Arlos

Tikker wrote:I'll even say it again, since i'm sure you'll whine about it

taking meds as prescribed, is not being addicted or a junkie

stop being a fucking retard arlos and least read the post first

Tikker wrote:quick, explain to me why someone addicted to heroin is a junkie, but someone addicted to booze or prozac is NOT a junkie?



that's the whole point~


I'll even say it again, since i'm sure you'll whine about it

taking meds as prescribed, is not being addicted or a junkie

when you reach the point of addiction, and youjust can't get thru a day without your narcotic of choice, you're a junkie

Who the fuck is saying an alcoholic isn't an addict? Anyone? Anyone?

What about someone with such a horrible case of Tourette's that they can't function for even a few hours without a specific drug because they will flail their limbs violently at random? They can't do ANYTHING without potentially harming themselves without said drug. What a fucking stupid addict.

People with severe epilepsy, diabetes, all fucking retarded addicts.

Harrison wrote:
Who the fuck is saying an alcoholic isn't an addict? Anyone? Anyone?.

absolutely no one is saying that, nice work reading the thread you dipshit

all I said was that alcoholics and people hooked on stuff like prozak somehow avoid the moniker of junkie

that's it, that's all, but maybe you can find one of your friends to explain what I'm saying to you, since you're too stupid to understand