namelesstavern.net

or it could simply be a matter of being willing to break your own rule when your country asks you to

will your country's national security ever depend on you eating a steak? not fucking likely, so in matters of nutrition it is easy to keep your rule against taking the lives of animals

however if your country needs you to break your rule, and you are willing to put your country's needs above your own personal ethics, what's so bad about that? sounds like patriotism to me *shrug*

Thats exactly what i was fucking saying !!!!

I guess I should have posted earlier that I also understand Spazz's post.

Gypsiyee wrote:I think this is highly speculative, and a similar topic was discussed recently.

top of the food chain =/= most important, imo. simply means we consume the most resources. I guess it all depends on what you qualify as important, though. Is important categorized as those who have the ability to be the most technologically advanced? Sure, I guess you could say that - but then you have to consider that those technical advances serve our purpose only, and then we're kind of only important to ourselves. Is human importance specific to only certain humans, or are we also considering human scum important? Is it okay to be a vegetarian if you're okay with a child molester getting shot in the face?

I dunno, I just don't think it's as simple as that statement, really.

It is easily as simple as that statement. Narrow your thinking a bit. I'm not speaking on the grand scheme of the world here. I'm talking about what's important to myself and my fellow men and women, which is ourselves. What's more important to you, the friends and acquantances or deer, cows and pigs? We're talking about vegetarianism for morality sake yet still being ok with killing people. I'm not speaking of individuals like child molesters, clowns or telemarketers, but of humans as a species and how the idea that murder is completely off limits to any other living species except humans is stupid.

ClakarEQ wrote:I wasn't going to but I will, who says humans are the most important animal? We are the worst sort of animal and are the only ones that do NOT follow the laws of nature (cuz we gots big brains and minds). You make it sound like if we all disappeared the world would be worse off, unfortunately the opposite is true.

/ninja'd by Gyps and /agree with her

I'm speaking from the standpoint of a human being. I'm rooting for my own team. Is my life worth more than a cow's? To you, maybe. To a cow, probably not. To me, hell fucking yes. To answer your question: If we disappeared would the world be worse off? The answer is that I don't give a shit because I, nor my species, would exist there. I don't get how you could have any other opinion besides that unless you're a tree. I put humans first because I'm human. I say do what's best for humans before anything else. I have no problems with people going out of their way to make the world more comfortable for other species to inhabit as well. That's cool too. Just take as good or better care of your own as well. That reiterates the point I'm trying to make. If you're not ok with killing animals yet you're ok with killing people, then you seriously need to readjust your priorities.

If you're not ok with killing animals yet you're ok with killing people, then you seriously need to readjust your priorities.

That point seems to be lost on everyone here.

the best thing for humans to do is to wake up and pay attention to the world around them. the most of them, anyway. the thinking people do corrupts their lives and makes them insane, there is no other species on earth that is as destructive as the human race. what other species is responsible for killing millions of its own?

if there were no humans on the earth, the animals, plants and fish would rejoice.

someone else said it, and I agree, who cares? I watched a program on the HIstory channel that documented the possible effects of having no humans on the earth and what would happen...and it might've been an ok show, but I couldn't help but think, "who cares?"

I'm sure this thread is crap. the title "vegetarians in the military" cracks me up. what a horrible comparison, argument and conclusion.

Harrison wrote:

If you're not ok with killing animals yet you're ok with killing people, then you seriously need to readjust your priorities.

That point seems to be lost on everyone here.

some just don't agree

yeah guess what

there are more options than a) misunderstanding you and b) agreeing with you

Harrison wrote:

If you're not ok with killing animals yet you're ok with killing people, then you seriously need to readjust your priorities.

That point seems to be lost on everyone here.

it's not lost on anyone. i hope finding out that no one agrees with your faggoty ultra-basic redneck ideology has been an eye-opening experience for your tiny one-track mind

I don't. I think being a vegetarian is cool if that's your thing. If it's health related or for whatever the reason it's all good. If you're a vegetarian because you don't want to harm animals, that's ok too. I just think it's stupid to have that stance, yet enlist in the military. Joining the military raises the chances that you might have to kill a person. I said it in my last post. It's ridiculous for murder to be off limits to all other species except your own.

Drem wrote:

Harrison wrote:

If you're not ok with killing animals yet you're ok with killing people, then you seriously need to readjust your priorities.

That point seems to be lost on everyone here.

it's not lost on anyone. i hope finding out that no one agrees with your faggoty ultra-basic redneck ideology has been an eye-opening experience for your tiny one-track mind

And I think treating your fellow man with the utmost concern is hardly redneck ideology. All I'm saying is you should love humans most before anything else.

all other species? so now vegetarians are so hippy that they don't kill bugs or fish or anything either? you're just taking one stupid example and totally blowing it out of proportion. even vegetarians that think killing animals is horribly horribly wrong probably love being in the military because in their minds they justify like they're killing off all the meat eaters and bad people. yunno? you can't win this argument. just stop caring. seriously. you guys are acting like little kids that aren't getting your way because like two people agree with you and it's hilarious/annoying

oh i totally disagree with that as well. humans are the last thing i care about. most of us are scum anyway. the planet's way more important than we are. not much point in concerning ourselves with ourselves if we live on a desolate wasteland in 400 years. sure it won't affect our lives, and i realise that's why none of you care, but hundreds of years from now, if we don't start caring about what our industry does to the habitats and ecosystems around us we're gonna be totally fucked. and i say that in the most un-hippy way possible whilst smoking a straight cigarette and breaking beer bottles over the hookers in my closet. caring about where we live really isn't a bad thing. EVER. you can never convince me that propogating our already out-of-control species is more important than cleaning up the mountains of shit we've left in our wake. we don't need any help. we're not going anywhere anytime soon. but you can't really say that about hundreds of other species that need our help

so who cares if someone defending their country, that's a vegetarian, kills someone else? when did murder become the equivalent of killing in defense? that's all we're saying

news flash if you've been under a rock:

people do not join the military to kill other people. maybe some do. some join to afford college and then they gtfo when it's over. some carry on a family tradition and stay in forever. there are countless reasons people join.

can you hear the conversation the vegetarian had with themselves as they enlisted? "this is against everything I believe in." lol, what? its about as dumb an argument as not allowing women or gays...would you want the military to turn them down because of their convictions with eating meat?!

this gets funnier.

Drem wrote:all other species? so now vegetarians are so hippy that they don't kill bugs or fish or anything either? you're just taking one stupid example and totally blowing it out of proportion. even vegetarians that think killing animals is horribly horribly wrong probably love being in the military because in their minds they justify like they're killing off all the meat eaters and bad people. yunno? you can't win this argument. just stop caring. seriously. you guys are acting like little kids that aren't getting your way because like two people agree with you and it's hilarious/annoying

Drem wrote:it's not lost on anyone. i hope finding out that no one agrees with your faggoty ultra-basic redneck ideology has been an eye-opening experience for your tiny one-track mind

Sorry Drem. I try and try to be as mature as you are but I guess I haven't reached that level quite yet.

I just stated my opinion. No need to get riled up over it. I didn't convey anything disrespectfully which you seem to like doing then accuse us of the same thing. It's funny how you can accuse someone of having a tiny "one-track" mind yet when someone's in disagreement with you you immediately froth at the mouth, mudsling and tell people they're rednecks and whatever your insult pops into your head as the angry blood rushes up there. It's not once or twice either, it's everytime. That sounds pretty "one-track" to me I'd say.

am i supposed to feel bad or something? sorry you think using language like that means i'm sitting at home bursting blood vessels over something as stupid as the things you guys say in threads like this

Drem wrote:am i supposed to feel bad or something? sorry you think using language like that means i'm sitting at home bursting blood vessels over something as stupid as the things you guys say in threads like this

Whether you should or shouldn't feel bad is entirely up to you. I just wanted to point that out since there were times in my life where I've been a hypocrit and it made me feel bad after realizing it. You accuse me of being childish and then you follow it up with childish comments. It's just funny. It's like saying, "I'm not a racist you nigger."

Let me give you a life lesson kid. You can say, "I hate close minded people" and that's fine. Just like how you can accuse Harrison of his redneck attitude and him and I both of annoying, "one-track" inferior thinking. Just be careful of the day you look in the mirror and realize that you also embody every bit of what you're saying you hate then realizing that you're a giant hypocrit who would rather point out the inadequacies of other people and use them as a security blanket. On the other hand, you can say "I hate close mindedness" and not feel so bad when you look in the mirror because instead of looking at a judgemental jackass you're looking at a guy who doesn't accept a flawed way of thinking, even if it exists within himself. The people who fall into the latter category will have the same complaints as you do, but have a better chance of improving those problems within themselves and be less hypocritical.

sorry, i lost you in the midst of your self-righteousness

I have mostly ignored this entire debate.

I will just restate that I feel that Harrison's initial hypothesis, that the majority of people who are vegetarians are so because they don't want to kill animals is spurious at best. There are many many reasons why people become vegetarian, and trying to pin it down like that in the absence of data is foolhardy in the extreme. Even in the case where it IS harming animals that is an issue, from what I have seen from the admittedly limited sample of people I know, is that it is cruelty in the life cycle they object to, not killing. Think chicken pens where they can't even stand up, veal pens where cows can't turn or even stand as well, plus slaughter methods that aren't instant, and result in causing the animals extreme pain before they finally die, etc. So just killing they may be fine with, but torture they are not, even if it is done to animals, not people.

Ultimately, people rarely do anything for just one reason. Generally for people to go vegetarian, or especially vegan, it is a combination of factors, whether they be aversion to cruelty, health issues (due to all the hormones and such they inject animals with these days), religious issues, whatever. I find the fact that we've now gone 3 pages arguing over an issue which at it's most basic was a whine about MREs he found less than tasty to be highly amusing.

Now, lest I be said to be less than fair, I fully admit there are complete raving morons out there as well, as evinced by the following sample from someone entirely unclear on the concept....


-Arlos

haha that reminds me of a spoof story i found on the net a few years ago that claimed scientists had genetically engineered grapefruits that contained meat. it was accompanied by a rather well-done photoshop in way of proof.

i showed it to my friend's rather gullible wife, who was militantly vegetarian, and asked her "look, they make meat grapefruits now. would you eat meat from a grapefruit?" she grudgingly admitted she would

ahahaha Leno showed that article a few weeks ago (arlos')

Drem wrote:sorry, i lost you in the midst of your self-righteousness

That's ok man. The beauty of anger and self loathing is that it goes away after a while. Good luck to you bud.

lol you take yourself way too seriously

Jay wrote: It's ridiculous for murder to be off limits to all other species except your own.

yet people believe in the invisible man, and follow his commandments

news flash, it doesn't have to be rational

it's the same thing where some people are ok eating dog, and others find it disgusting (yet they'll eat beef, sheep, pork, etc etc)


SAME FUCKING THING

not sure how many religions there are that prohibit the consumption of all meat; I know certain animals and parts of animals are prohibited, but I can only think of Jainism & Zoroastrianism requiring it, where in many others it is believed to be an ideal.

Oh and Seventh Day Adventists are also supposed to be staunch veg-heads iirc.

To the point though, I believe that some have glossed over the fact that people are not joining the military in order to kill people or even for the opportunity to kill people, but rather to serve and protect our Constitution. At some point in their service, they might be forced to kill another person, but only to protect someone else rather than to kill an animal to simply sate a hunger. More often though, they are not going to be killing anybody or anything in their lives be it in the military or outside of it and nobody really relishes the thought of taking a life needlessly be it human or animal. So yeah, argue away about being close minded and childish to one another about a subject that really doesn't matter too much. I'm going to go cook a steak.