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Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:21 pm
by Harrison
You can't change the definition of the word because you don't like it.
big·ot·ry
noun
1.
bigoted attitudes; intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.
It doesn't say, "only if it's something they can't control".
You're a bigot. Just get over it and accept it.
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:30 pm
by Arlos
Harrison wrote:You can't change the definition of the word because you don't like it.
big·ot·ry
noun
1.
bigoted attitudes; intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.
It doesn't say, "only if it's something they can't control".
You're a bigot. Just get over it and accept it.
Exactly how are you calling me a bigot? Have I said one thing negative about any religion here? Did you miss me saying that attacking people strictly on the source of their religious belief was unacceptable? How is that being bigoted?
On a personal level, I don't believe the bible to be some inerrant work. I believe it does contain some history, and some of the philosophical elements it espouses are quite positive. What I don't like is the dogma that has developed around the institution of Christianity. (though I'll admit, I'm rather positive about the latest Pope. Certainly a breath of fresh air) There's a difference between issues with dogma and the political institution of the church than attacking people for BEING Christian, whether I believe in it or not. I don't think that not believing in Christianity makes me a bigot, any more than the follower of any religion is a bigot for not believing in other religions.
-Arlos
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:28 pm
by 10sun
Harrison wrote:Does putting the Iliad in fiction assault an entire protected group's belief system as a publicly traded company?
No?
Oh, well, fuck. Now what are we going to argue about?
The Iliad is a simplified example.
How about focusing on the core of the argument instead of a minor detail:
How is The Bible inappropriately labeled?
Give me some actual reasoning behind it being non-fiction.
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:33 pm
by Arlos
10sun wrote:Harrison wrote:Does putting the Iliad in fiction assault an entire protected group's belief system as a publicly traded company?
No?
Oh, well, fuck. Now what are we going to argue about?
The Iliad is a simplified example.
How about focusing on the core of the argument instead of a minor detail:
How is The Bible inappropriately labeled?
Give me some actual reasoning behind it being non-fiction.
Being fair, some of the historical events mentioned in the Bible verifiably happened, if not quite in the same fashion as depicted. Look at the depictions of some of the military campaigns and the like in the Old Testament, as an example. Yeah, there's a lot of fantastical elements involved, but the core of the descriptions happened. As a comparison, Herodotus' Histories also contain fantastical elements (just look at his description of how the people of India get gold by stealing it from mounds of giant ants that were the size of dogs as an example), but also contains a great deal of surprisingly accurate history. I don't think you'd find anyone who supports labeling Herodotus as fiction, would you?
The Iliad, on the other hand, while also containing the bones of factual events, was specifically written as a heroic poem. Homer wrote it as the equivalent of a modern "based on historical events" movie. So, fiction.
-Arlos
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:38 pm
by Zanchief
Harrison wrote:I find atheists to be the most obnoxiously loudest religious group, by far.
They never shut the fuck up about it.
And this isn't bigoted?
According to you, facts are bigoted, the truth is bigoted. Get over it. You've made your point. Everyone is bigoted if we broaden the definition to longer mean anything.
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:25 am
by Jay
Zanchief wrote:Jay wrote:Ganzo I know how you feel man. You think it's wrong that the bible is labeled fiction rather than religion and that it's disrespectful. I think this thread should be labeled holy discussion rather than cap's alehouse and I feel your pain now. These guys just don't get it bro.
Seriously bro? Sack up. Ganzo and Harrison turned this thread nasty. Reread. I made one joke about Battlefield earth and then the profanities started. I even provided a link to a thread where Ganzo basically stated that Christianity was a crock of shit.
Grow a pair.
That was supposed to be sarcasm since Ganzo was the one that moved my thread =P
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:14 am
by Zanchief
Oh, I get jokes.
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:12 am
by Lyion
Misquoted Sandy Vagina Liberal wrote:Sexuality is something you CHOOSE. You may have been raised to be that way, but it is still a learned behavior/belief, and not something innate to a person like the color of their skin, hair color, etc.
Insulting someone for what they are, strictly based on race is bigotry. Insulting a person's sexual disposition is a voluntary choice is an entirely different thing. THAT is why things you have posted are bigoted, and attacking the bible is not. What has been posted here may be OFFENSIVE, but that's not even remotely the same thing as bigoted.
Let me do this again and remove the quote source since it was so terrible changing three fucking words.
I made sure it was not attributable and ensured people don't know when one is just a nasty insenstive dick towards peoples religious beliefs, but other groups are fine.
It's nice you have that same demand for all the other quotes changed from Harrison and many others.
Zanchief wrote:Harrison wrote:I find atheists to be the most obnoxiously loudest religious group, by far.
They never shut the fuck up about it.
And this isn't bigoted?
According to you, facts are bigoted, the truth is bigoted. Get over it. You've made your point. Everyone is bigoted if we broaden the definition to longer mean anything.
That would be an opinion dude. Note how he starts with 'I find'. That's very different from a bunch of men-children mad that mommy made them go to Sunday School and who rail against things they don't understand in their desire to keep control of their hedonism in a pseudo intellectual fashion attacking others who have something they do not.
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:25 am
by Zanchief
Opinion's can't be bigoted? Yes, they most certainly can be.
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:34 am
by Lyion
What Harrison said in my opinion was in no way bigoted. However, many other statements in this thread were textbook examples of religious bigotry which were nicely ignored by you.
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:56 am
by Zanchief
I never said they weren't. The worst comments in this thread were directed to atheists though. Just because you don't respect that belief structure doesn't invalidate the criticism. Not a single person in this thread criticised religious people, only the belief itself. Those ciritcising atheists (You and Harrison) directly attacked people with baseless accusations. If you don't see how what you're doing is worse, you're simply deluded.
Personally I don't care. I can take it. History (and this thread) has made it pretty clear, religious people can't (my first bigoted comment, also factually accurate).
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:34 am
by Ganzo
Lyion, don't bother. There is an old proverb in the Talmud, which was later rephrased in Matthew 7:6 that applies perfectly to this discussion.
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:02 am
by Jay
You guys are all a bunch of Markarados replacing the word Malaysia with bigoted.
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:12 am
by leah
Jay wrote:You guys are all a bunch of Markarados replacing the word Malaysia with bigoted.
ha, seriously. yikes. this got ugly pretty quickly.
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:37 pm
by Zanchief
Jay wrote:You guys are all a bunch of Markarados replacing the word Malaysia with bigoted.
Why you hate Malaysia?
Big It.
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:01 pm
by Arlos
Lyion wrote:I made sure it was not attributable and ensured people don't know when one is just a nasty insenstive dick towards peoples religious beliefs, but other groups are fine.
I repeat my request: Show me where, ANYWHERE in this thread I was a "nasty insensitive dick" to any religion whatsoever. Go on, I'm waiting.
Well?
It pisses me off getting accused of shit I didn't do, and you KNOW I didn't do. You won't find any such instance, because there AREN'T any. Fucking A, I even said that insulting someone solely on the basis of religious beliefs was offensive and not acceptable. The worst I said is that I don't believe in Christianity personally, and that I have an issue with the politics and dogma surrounding institutional Christianity. I realize you have a persecution complex a mile wide on this, but stating disbelief and a dislike for the non-religious aspects of an organized religion is being a nasty insensitive dick now?
Get over yourself.
-Arlos
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:28 pm
by Menelvir
I think there's a pretty broad spectrum between 'intolerant' and 'insensitive'.
I would categorize Costco's actions in the latter category -- that's their prerogative. Maybe the people who are still eating at Chik-Fil-A will stop shopping at Costco now, and order will be restored to the galaxy.
Also, I'd bet cash money that there's an overwhelming number of people who just really don't give a fuck either way.
The intolerant extremists -- namely, the fringe -- are the ones who get the press. And it doesn't matter whether they're believers or atheists.
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:31 pm
by Reynaldo
Menelvir wrote:
Also, I'd bet cash money that there's an overwhelming number of people who just really don't give a fuck either way.
/raise
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:39 pm
by Drem
Reynaldo wrote:Menelvir wrote:
Also, I'd bet cash money that there's an overwhelming number of people who just really don't give a fuck either way.
/raise
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:11 pm
by brinstar
Zanchief wrote:WTF? What did I say that was disrespectful?
after re-reading the entire thread, i recant and apologize. i mistook brusqueness for insult, and said what i said to give a little capitulation to ganzo in order to bring everyone back to the table for an adult discussion (which clearly did not happen, wow)
Harrison wrote:Does putting the Iliad in fiction assault an entire protected group's belief system as a publicly traded company?
neither does placing a bible there, fyi
Harrison wrote:You can't change the definition of the word because you don't like it.
that may be true, but repeating it over and over won't make it magically apply to a situation where it doesn't fit
Lyion wrote:That would be an opinion dude. Note how he starts with 'I find'. That's very different from a bunch of men-children mad that mommy made them go to Sunday School and who rail against things they don't understand in their desire to keep control of their hedonism in a pseudo intellectual fashion attacking others who have something they do not.
first of all, what in the actual fuck? opinions are immune from bigotry or prejudice? you couldn't be more fucking wrong about that if you fucking tried*
alright, we'll play by your rules:
I FIND that all catholics are brain-dead pieces of shit. I FIND their completely-imagined persecution complex makes them total assholes who kick and scream like fucking babies whenever the wind blows. I FIND they can just fuck right off with their ridiculously inflated sense of self-importance. I FIND they should climb down off their fucking crosses and stop acting like cunts. I FIND they should learn the fucking difference between losing a privilege and losing a right.
but hey, that's not bigotry at all, that's just my opinion** right? so we're cool?
*unless you're still trolling, in which case well-played
**not really, but you see how ridiculous that sounds?
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:35 am
by Lyion
brinstar wrote:I FIND that all catholics are brain-dead pieces of shit. I FIND their completely-imagined persecution complex makes them total assholes who kick and scream like fucking babies whenever the wind blows. I FIND they can just fuck right off with their ridiculously inflated sense of self-importance. I FIND they should climb down off their fucking crosses and stop acting like cunts. I FIND they should learn the fucking difference between losing a privilege and losing a right.
but hey, that's not bigotry at all, that's just my opinion** right? so we're cool?
Yup, that is also an opinion and not bigotry. Joe Biden and I approve of this message. Carry on.
Menelvir wrote:The intolerant extremists -- namely, the fringe -- are the ones who get the press. And it doesn't matter whether they're believers or atheists.
It's the same with everything the media does. The squeaky wheel get's the oil. However, it is interesting how many here are pretty much straight forward religious bigots. These are the same people who scream homophobe or racist at the drop of a hat, but find it perfectly ok to be bigots themselves since you know faith and belief aren't as important, despite being one of the main reasons the United States was founded.
The very few religious people who haven't been chased off this board rarely insult people who do not have faith or the same philosophical beliefs they do, but the reverse sure is true. Trying to say it politely does not change the fact that one is a religious bigot.
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:17 am
by Zanchief
Lyion wrote:The very few religious people who haven't been chased off this board rarely insult people who do not have faith or the same philosophical beliefs they do, but the reverse sure is true. Trying to say it politely does not change the fact that one is a religious bigot.
1) Bull shit. The most disrespectful comments in this thread came from your camp.
2) No one tried to say it politely.
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:05 pm
by Lyion
Point your browser back towards page one and read just that and tell me how it could be construed in any other way than a nasty religious bigot attack? If that's too far fetched, replace 'God' with 'Gays' in a similar analogy and see if it rings true. I could quote the entire first page, but I guess nastiness is ok if it concurs with your beliefs?
Anyways, wise words earlier, Ganzo. I'll follow your advice.
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:10 pm
by Zanchief
Why don't you do the same and look at what was said of those with a differing opinion then your own. No one said anything about religious people. Not one word. They made comments about the feasibility of the bible. Hardy bigotry. Then you and your peanut gallery personally attacked people who have a different belief as yours.
You can differentiate between those two things, can't you?
Let's summarize.
Someone posted something funny about the bible being fictional.
Many people agreed it was fictional.
Religious people personally attacked atheists.
Religious people claimed to be victims.
Throughout Harrison embarrassed himself.
Any of this contestable?
I don't understand how two differing beliefs can be seen as bigotry, when every faith is inherently contradictory. Is the mere fact that Ganzo sites the Talmud as more factual then the new testament bigotry to you and your faith, Lyion?
It seems the only people dictating who's beliefs are and aren't acceptable are you, Harrison, and Ganzo.
Re: Bad form or LOL? Costco labels Bible as fiction.
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:33 pm
by brinstar
well technically ganzo should only be half as pissed, considering his folk only believe in half the bible
anyway again i don't see the mutual exclusivity between being christian and believing the bible is fiction, but then i also don't see the mutual exclusivity between being a christian and being a socialist either
