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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:00 pm
by Zanchief
vonkaar wrote:Back to basketball. I have to score a basket. What are my chances of dribbling through the defense and penetrating far enough to score 1 shot? What are my chances of making an outside shot with a 6'7" guard in front of me? What probability do I have to even handle the ball well enough to keep possession of it?
Skill and coordination. Basketball takes much more than baseball. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it =p.
Not to mention defense.
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:08 pm
by Lyion
Zanchief wrote:vonkaar wrote:Back to basketball. I have to score a basket. What are my chances of dribbling through the defense and penetrating far enough to score 1 shot? What are my chances of making an outside shot with a 6'7" guard in front of me? What probability do I have to even handle the ball well enough to keep possession of it?
Skill and coordination. Basketball takes much more than baseball. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it =p.
Not to mention defense.
Hitting a 98 mph fastball is harder than anything anyone playing basketball will ever do. Pitching to a natural hitter is tougher than anything defensive in Basketball.
Basketball requires more athleticism, baseball requires much more skill.
I played football, baseball, and basketball in HS. Baseball was by far the hardest to succeed at, IMO.
One of the main requirement in Basketball has nothing to do with skill, it's height. Yep, there are plenty of 6 feet tall point guards, but again they are the exception and the bottom line is it's not talent based, as there are many tall sucky people in Basketball.
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:42 pm
by Anonymous
vonkaar wrote:Please. The high-schoolers that made it in the NBA did it on pure talent. Good for them. What does that have to do with baseball? If I was 17 and I could hit like Bonds, and pitch like Johnson do you really think any team would tell me to sit in the minors for a few years?
there are no 17-year-olds who can hit like bonds or pitch like johnson. that's the odd thing about baseball. when was the last time you saw a teenager in the major leagues? upton for the d'rays this year, andruw jones and arod in the past. maybe i'm forgetting one or two. for whatever reason, baseball skills take time to develop. i won't bore you with all that age 27 prime year bullshit. baseball isn't just about talent. for whatever reason. lots of guys have had had the 'talent' to be the next great pitcher/hitter, but sucked for whatever reason. and baseball skills seem to erode. jermaine o'neal can get drafted and be a sucky pine player for 3 years before coming into his own and being jizz. ryan anderson can be the next randy johnson but someone find himself out of baseball after sucking it up for 3 years in the minors.
vonkaar wrote:Let's say that I've never EVER EVER seen or played either sport in my life. I'm all of the sudden thrown into a college-level game of both baseball and basketball. I'm a well coordinated, athletic 20 year-old and get to watch both games for one hour.
All I have to do is hit ONE ball with my baseball bat, or score ONE basket with my basketball. We'll say that I have less than 1% chance of successfully connecting my bat to the ball on a purely lucky hit. I hit a single and sent a runner in off third. Go me, I contributed.
Back to basketball. I have to score a basket. What are my chances of dribbling through the defense and penetrating far enough to score 1 shot? What are my chances of making an outside shot with a 6'7" guard in front of me? What probability do I have to even handle the ball well enough to keep possession of it?
less than 1%? =p
vonkaar wrote:Skill and coordination. Basketball takes much more than baseball. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it =p.
i'd say basketball takes much more athleticism than baseball. but hitting a round ball with a round bat with any degree of consistency is the single most difficult athletic act. or maybe a close second to throwing a five ounce ball sixty feet six inches past a guy who really wants to hit it.
the greatest baseball players still fuck up and make an out 65% of time.
i obviously think baseball takes far more skill than basketball. that being said, i'd rather watch basketball than baseball. =p
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:56 pm
by Zanchief
Lyion wrote:Zanchief wrote:vonkaar wrote:Back to basketball. I have to score a basket. What are my chances of dribbling through the defense and penetrating far enough to score 1 shot? What are my chances of making an outside shot with a 6'7" guard in front of me? What probability do I have to even handle the ball well enough to keep possession of it?
Skill and coordination. Basketball takes much more than baseball. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it =p.
Not to mention defense.
Hitting a 98 mph fastball is harder than anything anyone playing basketball will ever do. Pitching to a natural hitter is tougher than anything defensive in Basketball.
Basketball requires more athleticism, baseball requires much more skill.
I played football, baseball, and basketball in HS. Baseball was by far the hardest to succeed at, IMO.
One of the main requirement in Basketball has nothing to do with skill, it's height. Yep, there are plenty of 6 feet tall point guards, but again they are the exception and the bottom line is it's not talent based, as there are many tall sucky people in Basketball.
Wrong, there are tall ATHLETIC sucky basketball players. Name one successful tall unathletic basketball player.
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:57 pm
by Ouchyfish
Zanchief wrote:Lyion wrote:Zanchief wrote:vonkaar wrote:Back to basketball. I have to score a basket. What are my chances of dribbling through the defense and penetrating far enough to score 1 shot? What are my chances of making an outside shot with a 6'7" guard in front of me? What probability do I have to even handle the ball well enough to keep possession of it?
Skill and coordination. Basketball takes much more than baseball. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it =p.
Not to mention defense.
Hitting a 98 mph fastball is harder than anything anyone playing basketball will ever do. Pitching to a natural hitter is tougher than anything defensive in Basketball.
Basketball requires more athleticism, baseball requires much more skill.
I played football, baseball, and basketball in HS. Baseball was by far the hardest to succeed at, IMO.
One of the main requirement in Basketball has nothing to do with skill, it's height. Yep, there are plenty of 6 feet tall point guards, but again they are the exception and the bottom line is it's not talent based, as there are many tall sucky people in Basketball.
Wrong, there are tall ATHLETIC sucky basketball players. Name one successful tall unathletic basketball player.
Me
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:59 pm
by Mop
Name one successful tall unathletic basketball player.
a few of his x teamates agree with me on that statement
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:00 pm
by Tacks
Shawn Bradley.
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:07 pm
by vonkaar
shrug... personal preference I guess...
I'm just surprised that you baseball schismatists haven't pulled the "Michael Jordon" card yet =p.
The final word I guess is that Baseball is 'easy' to learn and hard to master. Basketball is harder to learn and hard to master.
Also, the 98mph bit is pretty stupid. Anybody from the college-leve and up could hit a 98 mile fastball any day of the week, from a badass pitching machine. The mental aspect of pitcher vs hitter is what makes those fastballs so leathal in game. This doesn't make 'connecting a bat to a fastball' "the most awesome feat of coordination and skill." Just the same, most every basketball player under 300 pounds could hit 3-pointers all day during practise... different issue during game.
It's all perception. If we had some soccer fans here, they'd be arguing for soccer...
Personally, I think the peak of athleticism is met by the long jumpers. I can't think of any comparable split-second in all of sports that immediately calls on every ounce, every minute fiber in the body... drawing down into your soul for explosive power... in one brief instant. The whole concept is simple... run as fast as you possibly can to get to a single point, and then explode past it. BOOM!
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:11 pm
by Ouchyfish
vonkaar wrote:I can't think of any comparable split-second in all of sports that immediately calls on every ounce, every minute fiber in the body... drawing down into your soul for explosive power... as fast as you possibly can to get to a single point, and then explode past it. BOOM!
Made my nipples hard.
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:22 pm
by Tacks
I actually like Basketball more than Baseball. I did think about the whole Jordan failing at baseball thing but that is only 1 person, you can't judge much off that.
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:01 pm
by Zanchief
Taxx wrote:Shawn Bradley.
Zanchief wrote:successful
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 4:06 pm
by Herko
Vonk your kidding right? about baseball and basketball? First not many pros can hit a 98 mph ball well, even if it was thrown in the same exact spot, or the pitcher only threw fastballs. When you have pitchers that throw more than one pitch(thats all of them btw) then you arent sitting back waiting for that fastball, your praying its a heater cause you cant hit that fucking breaking curve for anything. And it sure as hell isnt in the same exact spot. Also, fielding? try playing the infield in a highschool game much less pros.... It takes far more skill to play baseball worth a lick than basketball. Forget michael Jordan... even with that obvious point, look at what it entails.
Basketball played well is hard too, but anyone from age 6 on up can make a basket, even Bud the dog could make baskets(arent there 2 movies about it) My grandmother can shoot better free throws than Shaq. Basketball is hard, and there is a ton of running, but its nothing compared to what baseball is like.
Hitting a shot in a game in basketball would be like a 25% chance....for most of us NT groupies even. seriously, 25%. if you can catch the basketball, pump fake to get that 6'7 guard salivating because he is going to swat your shot like a fly, then take one step and shoot isnt hard. I could score ina NBA game right now, I couldnt hit a baseball in the majors unless I got lucky when I closed my eyes swinging...and I play both sports.
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:07 pm
by Lyion
vonkaar wrote:shrug... personal preference I guess...
The final word I guess is that Baseball is 'easy' to learn and hard to master. Basketball is harder to learn and hard to master.
Also, the 98mph bit is pretty stupid. Anybody from the college-leve and up could hit a 98 mile fastball any day of the week, from a badass pitching machine. The mental aspect of pitcher vs hitter is what makes those fastballs so leathal in game. This doesn't make 'connecting a bat to a fastball' "the most awesome feat of coordination and skill." Just the same, most every basketball player under 300 pounds could hit 3-pointers all day during practise... different issue during game.
!
Basketball is easy to learn, and not too hard to master. There are tens of thousands of guys who could make it in the NBA right now if they got the break.
Baseball requires both talent and a lot of hard work. A hell of a lot more work than Basketball.
The biggest requirement for basketball is just being a tall fucker.
And.. Most of the asswipes on Team USA couldnt hit 3 pointers even unguarded, so there goes your theory..
I played college baseball.. I've seen a 97 mph fastball.. Until you've experienced it, its hard to explain and really there is no comparison to hoops. No, very few people can hit one, period. I've played hoops against college players and done ok. Huge difference between the two.
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:12 pm
by Ouchyfish
I played college baseball.. I've seen a 97 mph fastball.. Until you've experienced it, its hard to explain
I can make a layup. When it comes to a 97 mph fastball, the brain doesn't have time to give the command to swing let alone line the bat up with the ball.
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 6:51 pm
by vonkaar
Herko wrote: if you can catch the basketball, pump fake to get that 6'7 guard salivating because he is going to swat your shot like a fly, then take one step and shoot isnt hard. I could score ina NBA game right now.
You have just completely invalidated anything you would ever say in the Sports forum for the remainder of the year.
Moving on...
Lyion, you basically made the statement that 'connecting a bat to a ball at 98mph' was the most miraculous achievement in the world of sports. I then countered that by saying that "in a batting cage" even 'marginally decent' baseball players could hit 98mph balls all day. I also said that 'in a game' it's obviously a different deal. Aaaand then, I further supported your 'cause' by saying that hitting a ball in batting cage is probably as easy as hitting 3s in practise. Hitting a 3, even unguarded, IN A GAME is a
completely different deal.
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:16 pm
by Ich bein ein Berliner
vonkaar wrote:I can't think of any comparable split-second in all of sports that immediately calls on every ounce, every minute fiber in the body... drawing down into your soul for explosive power... in one brief instant. The whole concept is simple... run as fast as you possibly can to get to a single point, and then explode past it. BOOM!
The start of every sprint.
The release of the javelin, discuss, shot put, and hammer.
Now if you want to talk about athleticism, lets talk the 400m hurdles. It requires full out speed, a high degree of co-ordination, and deals out punishment beyond belief. That race is from hell, and the ability to sprint for so long and with such composure is divine. The only thing that comes close is the 200 IM in swimming.
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:19 pm
by Ouchyfish
Shurling puts all of that to shame. It's a damn shame the Olympics hasn't recognized it yet.
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:26 pm
by Zanchief
Herko wrote:Hitting a shot in a game in basketball would be like a 25% chance....for most of us NT groupies even. seriously, 25%. if you can catch the basketball, pump fake to get that 6'7 guard salivating because he is going to swat your shot like a fly, then take one step and shoot isnt hard. I could score ina NBA game right now, I couldnt hit a baseball in the majors unless I got lucky when I closed my eyes swinging...and I play both sports.
I could give you 50 chances to score on ME and you wouldn't be able to unless I let you. You think because you can make a layout you know the first thing about defense and how to expose it and how to score on someone who is following your every move?
Lyion, you're just as clueless if you think that there are thousands of people that could make the NBA if they had the chance, because they do. The NBDL and summer league is FULL of hopefuls that are scouted constantly and just can't cut it.
25% on an NBA pro. Wow, just so damn ignorant.
I'll give you hitting a fast ball, but all other facets of baseball are simple. Fielding infield or out is child’s play compared to the work a weak side defender has to do to time a perfect block.
The debate may be subjective but statements like "I could score on an NBA player 25% of the time" and "there are thousands of people that could play in the NBA given the chance" are not, they are just plain wrong and stupid.
There may be an argument that can be made, but you two morons aren't the ones to do it.
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:44 pm
by Rotj
Arguing whether Baseball or Basketball requires more athleticism is pointless. No matter what sport it is.. it's going to be heart, discipline and determination which will ultimately make up for their lack of natural 'skill' or 'ease' of the game. Full-stop, period, semi-colon.
Edit: Unless your name is Lebron James. Damn he and his genetics.
Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:06 am
by Anonymous
NamelessRex wrote:It's a damn shame the Olympics hasn't recognized it yet.
rugby.
Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:04 am
by 10sun
Baseball sucks. It is hard to hit the ball, easy to catch the balls though. I played for a couple years in high school. Would definitely say team sports are harder. The biggest interaction in baseball is between the pitcher and the batter. Basketball it is 5 on 5 all the time, no time outs, no nothing. Soccer is what? 9 on 9?
Really though, I'd say hockey is 50x the sport that basketball and baseball are combined.
-Adam
Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:33 am
by Lyion
Zanchief wrote:I could give you 50 chances to score on ME and you wouldn't be able to unless I let you. You think because you can make a layout you know the first thing about defense and how to expose it and how to score on someone who is following your every move?
Lyion, you're just as clueless if you think that there are thousands of people that could make the NBA if they had the chance, because they do. The NBDL and summer league is FULL of hopefuls that are scouted constantly and just can't cut it.
.
There are thousands of people who could make it in the NBA. They have the skills, they play daily, and they can match up with pro players on the court.
Obviously they aren't going to be in the elite 5%, but they have the skills and could play. I realise you haven't been to Detroit or Dallas and played hoops downtown with guys who play pickups and semi pros, but trust me, these people have the skillsets.
Go to any inner city and play hoops there, Zan.
The problem is the opportunities are limited, and the exposure isn't there for many.
Apples and Oranges comparing Basketball to baseball. However, in either sport you can make it on hard work and exposure. You need both. Watching a 6 foot Canadian point guard only proves that more.
Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:38 am
by vonkaar
He's 6'3". =p
He only looked short because the Mavs were such a tall team. He'll fit in a little better with the Suns.
Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:02 am
by Lyion
Yep, and Spud Webb was really 5'8....
Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:16 am
by Zanchief
Lyion wrote:There are thousands of people who could make it in the NBA. They have the skills, they play daily, and they can match up with pro players on the court.
Then the same could be said for Baseball players, Lyion. With the increase in Asian ball players you could blame foreign scouting in the past for the lack of opportunity.