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Holy shit, he had to stand up for long periods of time??? Call the Hague, my parents and elementary school teachers are war criminals!

Since when has maintaining the "high moral ground" been so important? To make us and the rest of the world feel better about our actions? So we can justify our actions? That seems to be the consensus here. I'd feel better about our actions if we were kicking the living shit out of terrorists and insurgents, instead of meandering around the deserts with our hands wringing, worrying about the "high moral ground." Either do the job right or get the fuck out. The moral ground attitude such a product of the modern, indecisive times we live in where every action has to be merited on if the current groupthink of a fickle society deems it acceptable. History is built on 10,000+ years of winner take all, and getting to write the history books. Say what you will about how killing terrorists spawns more terrorists, but I don't remember Carthage posing a threat to Rome after the close of the Third Punic War.

I'm curious as to who will say that I want to kill all Muslims now, since they missed the point.

Did you guys also miss the comments that they got BETTER results when they weren't engaging in such tactics?

It's called "bad cop, good cop." Old interrogation tactic.

Wow, what a non-story. Seriously, I've been treated far, far worse in training than anything detailed there. Inmates in civil prisons in the U.S. recieve worse treatment than the claims published here. As far as the results, the reporter completely missed the point: of course the prisoner cooperated more fully during less rigorous interrogation techniques after having been exposed to harsher methods. The technique of antagonize/relent is an age-old questioning technique, as seen in the Good Cop/Bad Cop routine Parv mentions.

I don't believe that our enemies' behavior should be used to justify our own, I just don't believe that the details of the logbook are particularly hideous.

Something else to try and make the Bush administration look bad. This entire article could have been written with the slant that we were holding back in our techniques and talk about all the special priviledges the prisoners have (arrow on the floor showing the proper direction to pray, etc) using the very same logbook as information. It's all in the bias of the reporter and editor.

Marine boot camp was worse that than shit... stop being a pussy and a fag.

I love it when you liberals come up with this idea that terrorists will do more terror to the US based on what we do to them. They don't care! They really don't fucking care. They will attack us regardless!

Zanchief wrote:It's cool in the second season of 24 when Jack Bauer kills an imprisoned terrorist then cuts his head off with a hack-saw.

As usual, you're wrong. That never happened in 24. At least not yet.

What did happen was Jack Bauer killed/murdered a man who happily admitted to committing some rather nasty crimes against children. He turned state evidence against the people Jack was trying to infiltrate, so Jack sawed off his head and gave it to those people as a gift and as evidence that he was one of them. It worked and Jack later went on to kill each of them!

Arlos wrote:Indeed, since when are we gauging what is acceptible behavior based on the actions of terrorists?

This is EXACTLY the same stuff that happened at Abu Gharib. If you have no problem with this, you have no problem with what happened there. It's mistreatment of a prisoner, period. The sole difference here is Gitmo lacks an ugly chick with a leash.

The Germans in WW2 mistreated US prisoners, did we mistreat theirs? Did we mistreat Japanese prisoners? How about Vietnamese prisoners in that war, especially VC prisoners, which were equally terrorists and "enemy combatants" to the arab terrorists?

We are SUPPOSED to be the ones on the moral high ground. Any mistreatment of prisoners weakens our positions, and damages our standing throughout the world. While I agree that many terrorist groups don't need new ammunition to recruit more terrorists, it still doesn't help in the least to hand them some on a silver platter.

And sorry, Harrison. A free media is one that reports everything, even stuff that may be uncomfortable. That's been the basis of the media since the beginning of this country. You don't like it? Tough shit, move somewhere that doesn't allow freedom of the press.

-Arlos

I'm sure we did at times mistreat certain German and Japanese soldiers. I'm sure some were even killed/murdered in cold blood. The same with soldiers in Vietnam. The only thing that has changed is the technology that now beams our "bad" deeds around the world in an instant.

Tuggan wrote:we definately need more coverage on linsay lohans eating problems, and katie holmes converting to scientology. maybe some bullshit bout jacko. none of this real news thats actually important, or at least should be important to any american.

those of you condoning the mistreatment of these people are totally fucked up in my opinion, its against everything we claim to stand for.

Yet you condone the mistreatment of American prisoners in American jails! You can bet your brown eye that these guys, on average, are treated a hell of a lot better than some child raper sent to the big house. Yet, where is your compassion for them?

If they catch one of these suicide bombers before his bomb goes off, I damn well hope they torture the living FUCK out of him to find out where he got the bomb, who gave him the bomb,..etc. You need to retrieve that information fast or it's lost forever. And it will likely result in innocent people dying in a bomb blast that could have been prevented with a few snipped off fingers.

So we can either torture a few of these scumbags when necessary or sit back and watch as they blow up a bunch of little schoolgirls for daring to try to learn how to read!

And the same goes for any American terrorist who begins to cross the Canadian border in groups to blow up innocent Canadians on a regular basis. If you catch some of them up nort', by all means do whatever it takes. Other than Arlos and a few others here who belong to his Coven of the Perpetually Offended, no one else will waste the calories it takes to shedd a single tear for these bastards. Just promise to NEVER send them back!v

Wrath Child wrote:

Tuggan wrote:we definately need more coverage on linsay lohans eating problems, and katie holmes converting to scientology. maybe some bullshit bout jacko. none of this real news thats actually important, or at least should be important to any american.

those of you condoning the mistreatment of these people are totally fucked up in my opinion, its against everything we claim to stand for.

Yet you condone the mistreatment of American prisoners in American jails! You can bet your brown eye that these guys, on average, are treated a hell of a lot better than some child raper sent to the big house. Yet, where is your compassion for them?

If they catch one of these suicide bombers before his bomb goes off, I damn well hope they torture the living FUCK out of him to find out where he got the bomb, who gave him the bomb,..etc. You need to retrieve that information fast or it's lost forever. And it will likely result in innocent people dying in a bomb blast that could have been prevented with a few snipped off fingers.

So we can either torture a few of these scumbags when necessary or sit back and watch as they blow up a bunch of little schoolgirls for daring to try to learn how to read!

And the same goes for any American terrorist who begins to cross the Canadian border in groups to blow up innocent Canadians on a regular basis. If you catch some of them up nort', by all means do whatever it takes. Other than Arlos and a few others here who belong to his Coven of the Perpetually Offended, no one else will waste the calories it takes to shedd a single tear for these bastards. Just promise to NEVER send them back!v

So based on this, it is safe to assume you have no problems with other nations tortring americans to get infomation out of them. They are only trying to save the innocent people around them from those trying to harm them.

Major difference...

They torture american citizens for being american...not for imformation to save their "innocents".

Gidan wrote:

Wrath Child wrote:

Tuggan wrote:we definately need more coverage on linsay lohans eating problems, and katie holmes converting to scientology. maybe some bullshit bout jacko. none of this real news thats actually important, or at least should be important to any american.

those of you condoning the mistreatment of these people are totally fucked up in my opinion, its against everything we claim to stand for.

Yet you condone the mistreatment of American prisoners in American jails! You can bet your brown eye that these guys, on average, are treated a hell of a lot better than some child raper sent to the big house. Yet, where is your compassion for them?

If they catch one of these suicide bombers before his bomb goes off, I damn well hope they torture the living FUCK out of him to find out where he got the bomb, who gave him the bomb,..etc. You need to retrieve that information fast or it's lost forever. And it will likely result in innocent people dying in a bomb blast that could have been prevented with a few snipped off fingers.

So we can either torture a few of these scumbags when necessary or sit back and watch as they blow up a bunch of little schoolgirls for daring to try to learn how to read!

And the same goes for any American terrorist who begins to cross the Canadian border in groups to blow up innocent Canadians on a regular basis. If you catch some of them up nort', by all means do whatever it takes. Other than Arlos and a few others here who belong to his Coven of the Perpetually Offended, no one else will waste the calories it takes to shedd a single tear for these bastards. Just promise to NEVER send them back!v

So based on this, it is safe to assume you have no problems with other nations tortring americans to get infomation out of them. They are only trying to save the innocent people around them from those trying to harm them.

I think "And the same goes for any American terrorist who begins to cross the Canadian border in groups to blow up innocent Canadians on a regular basis. If you catch some of them up nort', by all means do whatever it takes. Other than Arlos and a few others here who belong to his Coven of the Perpetually Offended, no one else will waste the calories it takes to shedd a single tear for these bastards. Just promise to NEVER send them back!" pretty much answered your question.

Torture is torture, doesn't matter what moral ground you claim you have in doing so. The people doing it believe they are doing what is right for them.

If you think torture is morally aceptable in this country, then logically it has to be morally acceptable in others as well.

Logic disagrees

We "torture" terrorists. (if you consider this shit outlined here to be torture you're either a pussy, or Arlos)

They torture and kill civilians. (Real torture, not that pussy shit you guys are whining about.)

I am not talking about American terrorists crossing into Canada. I am talking about innocent Americans that are in other countries that they claim are suspected terrorists. Keep in mind, they dont have to prove anything, all they have to do is claim that they are a terrorist threat.

I have no problem with torture if it is necessary to stop an immediate threat. See 24 for multiple examples. Torture for sexual pleasure or other such reasons is quite a different matter.

if other countries only made american prisoners stand for awhile or stay up late instead of cut their fucking heads off...


if only

I've made this point before, but institutionalizing torture in the U.S. military would be a Very Bad Thing. I just don't feel that the procedures documented here constitute torture.