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Trielelvan wrote:She's pissed as hell at illegals that come here thinking they deserve benefits that SHE'S paying tax dollars for.

What exactly are these people taking that SHE'S paying for?

They don't get anything. They just work as hard as they can so they can live a better life. I guess that's unamerian, right?

Mindia wrote:

Naethyn9 wrote:Have you ever seen or read what it takes to become naturalized?

It doesn't matter. They came here illegally. So what if it takes a long time and requires a bit of studying of the English language and some U.S. Civics schooling. If my parents can do it, then so can the Mexicanos.

Your argument is stupid, actually. By your logic it would be ok to get a fake Bachelor's or Master's degree in order to secure employment... then, once admin finds out that it's fake, and they want to fire you from the company, you get a lawyer to defend you by saying, "He's here now and has been working here for 5 years and does a great job. So what if the degree was fake. Besides, do you know how long it takes to get a real degree?" That's exactly the argument you're using. I sincerely hope you now see the retardation in your statement.

THAT ANALOGY MADE SENSE! I am amazed at Mindia.

[quote]"When visiting cities like Chicago, Milwaukee, or Philadelphia, in pivotal states, George W. Bush he would drop in at Hispanic festivals and parties, sometimes joining in singing “The Star-Spangled Bannerâ€

Why illegal immigration bad:

in Detroit 5 years ago cost of ceramic tile installation was $5.00 sq.ft, jobs were performed by Ammericans or E.Europe Immigrants. Over last 5 years Mexican, Arab, Romanian, and Ukrainian Illigas out of Hamtramic(illigal immigrant getto) kept downbidding eachother to a point where you can find people to do it for $.50 sq.ft.
Now certified, licensed, legal contractors are out of job because they cannot compete at this price.

Carpet - same story. changed from $ 6-7 s.y. to $ 2.50 -3 s.y.

This applies to all construction/remodeling/landscaping. Only jobs not affected so far are electrical and plumbing because they require license and pulling a permit under license #, but i'm sure that will be affected soon as well.


As far as Mexican Strike, my mexican carpet guy didn't show so i called my arabic installer

p.s. I'm a legal imigrant and it doesn't take that long to be legal

Zanchief wrote:

Trielelvan wrote:She's pissed as hell at illegals that come here thinking they deserve benefits that SHE'S paying tax dollars for.

What exactly are these people taking that SHE'S paying for?

They don't get anything. They just work as hard as they can so they can live a better life. I guess that's unamerian, right?

Hi. Bullshit.
Healthcare. Welfare. Food Stamps. Let's see... shall I go on? They work really hard... and get paid under the table and don't pay a red cent in taxes.

Illegal immigrants in this country make bank Zan. Don't kid yourself.
I've got an aunt from my mother's side living in Cali as we speak who calls home to brag about how easy it is to get EVERYTHING in the USA.

She gets her housing paid for, her healthcare paid for, food stamps, and all of this is from the government - she isn't a US citizen, has no intention of ever becoming one, and hasn't worked a single day in her life here in the states.

She is also the fucking business owner of a HUGE clothing plant in Taipei and is filthy fucking rich.

She just bought her daughter a 2 million dollar house up in Ontario.
Canuchink ftw dude~

I repeat.
Fuck them.

Ganzo wrote:Why illegal immigration bad:

in Detroit 5 years ago cost of ceramic tile installation was $5.00 sq.ft, jobs were performed by Ammericans or E.Europe Immigrants. Over last 5 years Mexican, Arab, Romanian, and Ukrainian Illigas out of Hamtramic(illigal immigrant getto) kept downbidding eachother to a point where you can find people to do it for $.50 sq.ft.
Now certified, licensed, legal contractors are out of job because they cannot compete at this price.

Carpet - same story. changed from $ 6-7 s.y. to $ 2.50 -3 s.y.

This applies to all construction/remodeling/landscaping. Only jobs not affected so far are electrical and plumbing because they require license and pulling a permit under license #, but i'm sure that will be affected soon as well.


As far as Mexican Strike, my mexican carpet guy didn't show so i called my arabic installer

p.s. I'm a legal imigrant and it doesn't take that long to be legal

Yup, and I saw firsthand how the illegals Fuxored-up the carpentry trade down in southern California. The companies that hire them should be shut down and they should be made to do 6+ years in a federal FMITA prison.

Not companies fault. Blame consumers who want to buy everything from lowest bidder

Trielelvan wrote:Healthcare. Welfare. Food Stamps. Let's see... shall I go on? They work really hard... and get paid under the table and don't pay a red cent in taxes.

Evil Immigrant: Hello Welfare office? I'd like some money.

Poor Welfare Office: Social Insurance number?

Evil Immigrant: I don't have one.

Poor Welfare Office: No problem, here's your check.

If you're an illegal immigrant you can't collect welfare or food stamps or healthcare (like you have any).

You really have no idea how fucked the system is here in the US is, do you?

It is the companies fault. I sat down and had a beer with a contractor who only hired illegals. He told me he would never hire a white guy even if he was a journeyman because they want 30-35 bucks an hour, whereas the illegal dikbag will work for 12 bucks an hour.

Zanchief wrote:

Trielelvan wrote:Healthcare. Welfare. Food Stamps. Let's see... shall I go on? They work really hard... and get paid under the table and don't pay a red cent in taxes.

Evil Immigrant: Hello Welfare office? I'd like some money.

Poor Welfare Office: Social Insurance number?

Evil Immigrant: I don't have one.

Poor Welfare Office: No problem, here's your check.

If you're an illegal immigrant you can't collect welfare or food stamps or healthcare (like you have any).

This all can be collected on kids thast born here in bunches

Mindia wrote:It is the companies fault. I sat down and had a beer with a contractor who only hired illegals. He told me he would never hire a white guy even if he was a journeyman because they want 30-35 bucks an hour, whereas the illegal dikbag will work for 12 bucks an hour.

The reason he does it is to be able to compete in current market. Trust me i go through same shit

Ganzo wrote:Why illegal immigration bad:

in Detroit 5 years ago cost of ceramic tile installation was $5.00 sq.ft, jobs were performed by Ammericans or E.Europe Immigrants. Over last 5 years Mexican, Arab, Romanian, and Ukrainian Illigas out of Hamtramic(illigal immigrant getto) kept downbidding eachother to a point where you can find people to do it for $.50 sq.ft.
Now certified, licensed, legal contractors are out of job because they cannot compete at this price.

Carpet - same story. changed from $ 6-7 s.y. to $ 2.50 -3 s.y.

This applies to all construction/remodeling/landscaping. Only jobs not affected so far are electrical and plumbing because they require license and pulling a permit under license #, but i'm sure that will be affected soon as well.


As far as Mexican Strike, my mexican carpet guy didn't show so i called my arabic installer

p.s. I'm a legal imigrant and it doesn't take that long to be legal

Blame it on capitalism, commie..

Ganzo wrote:

Mindia wrote:It is the companies fault. I sat down and had a beer with a contractor who only hired illegals. He told me he would never hire a white guy even if he was a journeyman because they want 30-35 bucks an hour, whereas the illegal dikbag will work for 12 bucks an hour.

The reason he does it is to be able to compete in current market. Trust me i go through same shit

Well, he should still go to jail for hiring the illegals, and he should have his contractor's license yanked.

Yes but then someone can get their home tiled for 10% the price. If the illegal can work for .50/sq ft why can't someone with an education figure out a way to do it? That or just employ them and charge .75/sq ft. People still want the lowest price, but they would rather pay a slight premium for a service if they can interact with someone that is reputable and has an established business.

How is it cappitalism when you buypass legal contractor expencess like: tax, liability insurance, workers comp, license, work permit, medical/imployment tax for helpers?

It's calles doing something illegaly and saving money on gov fees and taxes so you able to do it cheeper

No matter how we look at it or who is to blame our economy would suffer a massive blow if every single illegal just went away.

Illegal or not we need them.

Eziekial wrote:Yes but then someone can get their home tiled for 10% the price. If the illegal can work for .50/sq ft why can't someone with an education figure out a way to do it? That or just employ them and charge .75/sq ft. People still want the lowest price, but they would rather pay a slight premium for a service if they can interact with someone that is reputable and has an established business.

see my post above, and also just beacuse someone can do it for .50 cent does not make it fair market value.

Ganzo wrote:How is it cappitalism when you buypass legal contractor expencess like: tax, liability insurance, workers comp, license, work permit, medical/imployment tax for helpers?

It's calles doing something illegaly and saving money on gov fees and taxes so you able to do it cheeper

That's exactly what capitalism is: economic activity unrestricted by the government. I honestly don't blame business owners for hiring illegal immigrants - at least from a purely economic prespective. I blame the bloated mess of a system that is imposing all these restrictions and taxes that make these hiring situations an issue to begin with.

As much as the illegal [immigration] part of it is a problematic issue... people have the right to use their money as they see fit - including whom they choose to hire and for how much. Whether the government 'allows' it or not.

That's true Yamori, and it's what I was pointing out but Ganzo has a point since he already is part of the system and has gone through the time and expense of meeting regulations, requirements, and law. There has to be an equal playing field. The problem is how you equal it now that you have people and companies invested in the system. You could compensate Ganzo (but where would the money come from) and remove the regulations, requirements and laws or impose them on illegals who are outside the system and whom you can't see. It's a bit of a mess.

I retract my statement due to the fact that I am unsure which side I am on.

I don't think you see whole picture. Sharp drops in unregulated labor price like the one i described drive independant contractors and mom'n'pop companies out of business. This creates more problems to economy and higher unemployment rates. Look at Michigan now, we are in the worst resession construction industry ever seen. I personaly know over 20 high end contractors who are now declared bancrupcy, 4 supplier warehouses closed showrooms because they can only sell to someone with contractor license, and those guys can't find jobs because they have to charge $3.00 or more to just cover costs of business.

It's all linked, you think some illigal mowing your loan for 1/4 of what companies charge does not affect you and saves you money, and is good competition; but realy it is destroying our economy.

Mindia wrote:It is the companies fault. I sat down and had a beer with a contractor who only hired illegals. He told me he would never hire a white guy even if he was a journeyman because they want 30-35 bucks an hour, whereas the illegal dikbag will work for 12 bucks an hour.

Also, you typically get 3x the work from the mexican at 1/3 the hourly rate of the average white guy. If I could find some mexicans who want to do HVAC, I will hire them in a heartbeat, this goes for the legal workers, I will never hire an illegal.

DangerPaul wrote:

Mindia wrote:It is the companies fault. I sat down and had a beer with a contractor who only hired illegals. He told me he would never hire a white guy even if he was a journeyman because they want 30-35 bucks an hour, whereas the illegal dikbag will work for 12 bucks an hour.

Also, you typically get 3x the work from the mexican at 1/3 the hourly rate of the average white guy. If I could find some mexicans who want to do HVAC, I will hire them in a heartbeat, this goes for the legal workers, I will never hire an illegal.

You know what, Paul? I agree with you to a certain degree, but I worked circles around the Messicans when I was nailing down panelized roofing for a Home Depot tilt-up. It was backbreaking work, hot as F--K up there, and it was a slam-and-jam job. The Messicans kept stopping, wiping the sweat from their brow, looking around, cackling some bullshit to each other in Spanish, firing nails at each other from the nail gun, while I kept hustling and keeping my nose to the grindstone.

DangerPaul wrote:

Mindia wrote:It is the companies fault. I sat down and had a beer with a contractor who only hired illegals. He told me he would never hire a white guy even if he was a journeyman because they want 30-35 bucks an hour, whereas the illegal dikbag will work for 12 bucks an hour.

Also, you typically get 3x the work from the mexican at 1/3 the hourly rate of the average white guy. If I could find some mexicans who want to do HVAC, I will hire them in a heartbeat, this goes for the legal workers, I will never hire an illegal.

That BS i'll always use good contractor over mexican if i can afford it on a job because i can get reliable work done that i will not haveto replace in 2 years