namelesstavern.net

vonkaar wrote:

Markarado wrote:Vonkaar, you are wrong sir. You obviously have very little or no experience of what China is really like.

How am I wrong? I never said that "China" was blameless...

Or... did I just win a prize by being the subject of Markarado's one millionth victim to his, "I LIVE IN MALAYSIA!" schtick?

Congrats, sweetpants!

Killing animals for food is never wrong in my opinion. Except, of course, killing someone else's animal. Be it dogs, cats, snakes, cows, pigs, whatever.... I don't care.

Where were you guys when everybody was slaughtering chickens to prevent bird flu and sars.

They're chickens. I don't subscribe to Vonkaar's way of thinking that all animals are the same. I find the beating of dogs to death revolting, while I don't care how they kill my bacon. Bolt gun, electricity, or a hammer. I don't care as long as it's frying in my pan.

Hypocracy? Sure. Don't care on this subject. I'll use the Christian argument, it's because I believe it to be so. Can't argue with that.

I will submit however, that dogs are fundamentally different than chickens, pigs, cows. They are truelly domesticated. If a dog is born and lives in human contact, that dog will posess an underlying theme to it's personality, that it is friends with humans, that people are to be trusted, and a need for companionship.

Chickens, cows, and pigs are not raised under such false pretences. They know what's going to happen. The last pig I took to the butcher knew he was going to the butcher. It's not the same as calling a dog, who trusts you and genetically considers you a friend simply because you walk on two feet, then beating it to death with a stick. Is it better? Sementics I don't care to argue. But it's not a fair comparison.

It's like arguing that white people are smarter than black people, because of standardized test results, even though the blacks predominantely didn't get the same level of education that the whites did. It's not a fair comparison either.

So, fuck you liberal.

Minrott wrote:They're chickens. I don't subscribe to Vonkaar's way of thinking that all animals are the same. I find the beating of dogs to death revolting, while I don't care how they kill my bacon. Bolt gun, electricity, or a hammer. I don't care as long as it's frying in my pan.

Hypocracy? Sure. Don't care on this subject. I'll use the Christian argument, it's because I believe it to be so. Can't argue with that.

I will submit however, that dogs are fundamentally different than chickens, pigs, cows. They are truelly domesticated. If a dog is born and lives in human contact, that dog will posess an underlying theme to it's personality, that it is friends with humans, that people are to be trusted, and a need for companionship.

Chickens, cows, and pigs are not raised under such false pretences. They know what's going to happen. The last pig I took to the butcher knew he was going to the butcher. It's not the same as calling a dog, who trusts you and genetically considers you a friend simply because you walk on two feet, then beating it to death with a stick. Is it better? Sementics I don't care to argue. But it's not a fair comparison.

It's like arguing that white people are smarter than black people, because of standardized test results, even though the blacks predominantely didn't get the same level of education that the whites did. It's not a fair comparison either.

So, fuck you liberal.

/agree

I agree with you to a point, Vonk, but to me the thing that separates this from anything we do here in North America to satisfy our gluttony is, we aren't killing people's pets. To me, it's not so much about the animals, but the people who have to watch their pets get slaughtered because the Government thinks they're better off. That's not cool in my books.

Also, fuck Liberals and you're stupid, Vonkaar.

Minrott wrote:They're chickens. I don't subscribe to Vonkaar's way of thinking that all animals are the same. I find the beating of dogs to death revolting, while I don't care how they kill my bacon. Bolt gun, electricity, or a hammer. I don't care as long as it's frying in my pan.

Hypocracy? Sure. Don't care on this subject. I'll use the Christian argument, it's because I believe it to be so. Can't argue with that.

Fine, and I'll stick with the 'cultural differences' argument. You have your 'beliefs' which can't be argued. So do 'they.' Dogs 'are' cuddly pets and "Man's best friend" in much of the world, while they are skinned up and hanging in butchers markets in other parts - as food. Cows are slaughtered in droves 'here', and 'over there' 3x the population of America believes them to be holy symbols... they often wear more gaudy jewelry than an Alabama prom queen. The world is full of different types of people and beliefs. You can't expect everyone to subscribe to your own customs.

Minrott wrote:I will submit however, that dogs are fundamentally different than chickens, pigs, cows. They are truelly domesticated. If a dog is born and lives in human contact, that dog will posess an underlying theme to it's personality, that it is friends with humans, that people are to be trusted, and a need for companionship.

And the thousands of owners of pot-bellied pigs would disagree. I knew a kid in highschool who had a pig that could fetch, play dead, all the 'dog' tricks. Plus, it could eat a phone book in 2 hours. It's a simple twist of fate that caused dogs to be 'loved' 5,000 years ago and 'pigs' eaten, rather than the other way around. It could have been totally different, but that shouldn't make a difference in what 'is' or is 'not' ethical. If it's ethical to club one animal to death, the standard should apply towards them all. Furthermore, if intelligence is the benchmark to judge an animal's worthiness to be clubbed to death, why not club all the dalmations? They are supposed to be the dumbest dogs around.

Minrott wrote:Chickens, cows, and pigs are not raised under such false pretences. They know what's going to happen. The last pig I took to the butcher knew he was going to the butcher. It's not the same as calling a dog, who trusts you and genetically considers you a friend simply because you walk on two feet, then beating it to death with a stick. Is it better?

Objection - council is speaking on the animal's state of mind, and Mindia's agreeing with him.

vonkaar wrote:

Minrott wrote:They're chickens. I don't subscribe to Vonkaar's way of thinking that all animals are the same. I find the beating of dogs to death revolting, while I don't care how they kill my bacon. Bolt gun, electricity, or a hammer. I don't care as long as it's frying in my pan.

Hypocracy? Sure. Don't care on this subject. I'll use the Christian argument, it's because I believe it to be so. Can't argue with that.

Fine, and I'll stick with the 'cultural differences' argument. You have your 'beliefs' which can't be argued. So do 'they.' Dogs 'are' cuddly pets and "Man's best friend" in much of the world, while they are skinned up and hanging in butchers markets in other parts - as food. Cows are slaughtered in droves 'here', and 'over there' 3x the population of America believes them to be holy symbols... they often wear more gaudy jewelry than an Alabama prom queen. The world is full of different types of people and beliefs. You can't expect everyone to subscribe to your own customs.

Minrott wrote:I will submit however, that dogs are fundamentally different than chickens, pigs, cows. They are truelly domesticated. If a dog is born and lives in human contact, that dog will posess an underlying theme to it's personality, that it is friends with humans, that people are to be trusted, and a need for companionship.

And the thousands of owners of pot-bellied pigs would disagree. I knew a kid in highschool who had a pig that could fetch, play dead, all the 'dog' tricks. Plus, it could eat a phone book in 2 hours. It's a simple twist of fate that caused dogs to be 'loved' 5,000 years ago and 'pigs' eaten, rather than the other way around. It could have been totally different, but that shouldn't make a difference in what 'is' or is 'not' ethical. If it's ethical to club one animal to death, the standard should apply towards them all. Furthermore, if intelligence is the benchmark to judge an animal's worthiness to be clubbed to death, why not club all the dalmations? They are supposed to be the dumbest dogs around.

Minrott wrote:Chickens, cows, and pigs are not raised under such false pretences. They know what's going to happen. The last pig I took to the butcher knew he was going to the butcher. It's not the same as calling a dog, who trusts you and genetically considers you a friend simply because you walk on two feet, then beating it to death with a stick. Is it better?

Objection - council is speaking on the animal's state of mind, and Mindia's agreeing with him.

Can you or Gidan make an option for a "line item veto?" I actually wasn't agreeing with him on that point.

What if the argument were made about trauma to the OWNER of the animals, instead of the animals themselves? We can argue until doomsday whether or not killing one animal for food is or is not more humane than killing any other animal. But, 2 facts stick out in this particular case:

1) These animals were NOT killed for food, they were simply killed, for no reason other than official paranoia. Many of those dogs could have had full rabies vaccines, and thus could not have been the source of any human rabies contraction, yet were slaughtered anyway.

2) Many of these animals were beloved pets of their owners. WHAT kind of animals they were is irrelevant in this consideration. They could have been potbellied pigs, dogs, cats, parakeets, etc. The senseless deaths of PETS is traumatizing to those that own them. Yes, the deaths of those chickens in your video post is nasty and disgusting, but they are not pets and no parent is going to have to deal with a 5 year old asking where fluffy went when they're killed. Yes, I realize this issue is self-centered and has nothing to do with the animal, but humans deserve consideration as well.


Personally, I support some of PETAs aims, but not others. We ARE omnivores, we have always eaten meat. As a result of the demand for meat, farming animals for consumption is an ugly necessity. Note that none of the animals bred for consumption for american markets are endangered species, as well.

-Arlos

As stated above many of these dogs were pets. Cultural differences? Sure..... some Chinese do eat dogs. I would argue that most of them don't. Owning dogs as pets in China is becoming increasingly popular - especially among the upper-class.

And that's all fine and dandy. I never said that this was an excused event. It was evil. I simply drew a comparison to the shit that we do on a much broader scale. I never split hairs... I just wrote that stomping up and down on a living chicken is evil... boiling it alive is evil... just the same as clubbing a dog is evil, or closer to home, beating a baby seal is evil. Oh, but the seal-beaters had a 'purpose' - harvesting fur and other byproducts. It's all evil. The Chinese dog-beaters, the Russian seal-clubbers and the American chicken torturers. It's only 'we' Americans that try and justify this evil by saying, "oh, but it's for food."

And we remain the fattest country on the planet.

I don't agree with some of the practices in the chicken industry, but I still don't think it's comparable to beating people's pets to death because 2,000 people died in ALL OF CHINA.