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Zanchief wrote:Those angry mobs are doing a pretty good job right now with American "military forces".

But we can all hope things work out, as much of a long shot as I think it is.

U.S. Armed Forces and Hussein's army operate under entirely different ROE. The former are burdened by the restraints that I mentioned, while the latter were constrained only by the whims of Hussein.

Gidan wrote:
A democratic government can be forced on people, its done by military force. Its hard for the people of Iraq to choose a gov't for themselves when you have the US military sitting their watching.

That's hardly a fucking democracy then, is it?

We more or less went in, removed their leader and said. Its time for you to pick a govn't, your choice is democracy. We will be here to make sure you do it right and help you to keep those who appose it or our being here at bay.

Except that's not even remotely close to what happened. I don't know if you remember the Iraqi people risking, in many cases, their lives for an opportunity vote, but they did.

I am sure there are many people in Iraq who are for it, however I would be willing to be there are many against it that dont say a thing out of fear of what we will do.

Yeah, the opposition lives in terror of our Stasi tactics, a broken, cowed shell of their former defiance. They would never dare to speak against the U.S.

The US has forced a gov't on Iraq one way or another.

Yeah, we "forced" a government via popular elections. It's all part of our cunning plan. Next, we'll force the American populace to choose their own leader. Muwahahahaha!

xaoshaen wrote:U.S. Armed Forces and Hussein's army operate under entirely different ROE. The former are burdened by the restraints that I mentioned, while the latter were constrained only by the whims of Hussein.

This is why the second amendment allows for me to purchase a Tank and a 50cal.... just in case.

Eziekial wrote:

xaoshaen wrote:U.S. Armed Forces and Hussein's army operate under entirely different ROE. The former are burdened by the restraints that I mentioned, while the latter were constrained only by the whims of Hussein.

This is why the second amendment allows for me to purchase a Tank and a 50cal.... just in case.

We need to have a thread about the Second Amendment sometime. It's one of those issues where I'm not entirely certain where I stand. I'd welcome the opportunity to argue with both sides, maybe clarify things a bit for myself.

xaoshaen wrote:

I am sure there are many people in Iraq who are for it, however I would be willing to be there are many against it that dont say a thing out of fear of what we will do.

Yeah, the opposition lives in terror of our Stasi tactics, a broken, cowed shell of their former defiance. They would never dare to speak against the U.S.

You do realize that many people actually fear the US right? You can be sure there are plenty of people who are against it but dont say anything in fear of how the US will react. Its easy to say that we wouldn't do anything but then again you dont have a foreign military watching over you. You might feel a little differently if you were on the other end of our military arm.

Gidan wrote:You do realize that many people actually fear the US right? You can be sure there are plenty of people who are against it but dont say anything in fear of how the US will react. Its easy to say that we wouldn't do anything but then again you dont have a foreign military watching over you. You might feel a little differently if you were on the other end of our military arm.

Yeah, because the presence of U.S. military has really cowed everyone in Iraq. Why if we weren't such an intimidating presence, people might be shooting at U.S. forces, setting off car bombs, and performing assorted acts of terrorism.

Face it: the Iraqi people showed up to vote despite death threats from foreign fighters and terrorists. They're not a broken, cowed people to be deterred by the presence of a U.S. force that is vastly more restrained than the previous regime. If anything, U.S. troops have relived the atmorsphere of oppression in Iraq.

Yeah, because the presence of U.S. military has really cowed everyone in Iraq.

That is a very true statment. Sure some people havn't, the fanatics but many have been.

No, it isnt. Try talking to people in Iraq. Better, give some proof.

ok the quote wasn't exectly what I was looking for at the time.

U.S. military has really cowed some if not many in Iraq

Gidan wrote:

Yeah, because the presence of U.S. military has really cowed everyone in Iraq.

That is a very true statment. Sure some people havn't, the fanatics but many have been.

xaoshaen wrote:Face it: the Iraqi people showed up to vote despite death threats from foreign fighters and terrorists. They're not a broken, cowed people to be deterred by the presence of a U.S. force that is vastly more restrained than the previous regime. If anything, U.S. troops have relived the atmorsphere of oppression in Iraq.

I'd be incredibly interested in hearing your evidence that U.S. forces replacing a regime founded on fear and oppression have suddenly broken the spirit of the Iraqi people. If you think our troops are scary, you've never been exposed to the horrors of the Hussein regime.

I also wonder, how well did the elections actually go? What was the turnout really like? How many of the people who showed up actually only did so for food?

I know the Sunnis stayed away in droves, deliberately.

-Arlos