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Canadian Government Falls; Politicians Set to Campaign
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:00 am
by kaharthemad
TORONTO — Canadian politicians will hit the campaign trail this holiday season after opposition parties seized upon a corruption scandal to bring down the minority government of Prime Minister Paul Martin in a vote of no confidence.
Monday's loss means an election for all 308 seats in the lower House of Commons, likely on Jan. 23. Martin and his Cabinet will continue to govern until then.
The Conservative Party teamed up with the New Democratic Party and Bloc Quebecois to bring down the government, claiming the ruling Liberal Party had lost its moral authority. Recent polls have given the Liberals a slight lead over the Conservatives, with the New Democrats in third place.
The same surveys suggest the Bloc Quebecois would sweep the French-speaking province of Quebec, making a majority government unlikely no matter which party wins the most seats.
Martin is expected to dissolve the House of Commons on Tuesday and set a firm date for the elections. Canadian law sharply restricts the duration of the campaign.
"The vote in the House of Commons did not go our way," Martin said. "But the decision of the future of our government will be made by Canadians. They will judge us."
Martin has had frosty relations with the White House, standing by the Liberal Party decision not to support the U.S. invasion of Iraq. He also declined to join in Washington's continental ballistic missile shield, infuriating the Bush administration, has been called weak on terrorism, and was vocal in his opposition of high U.S. tariffs on Canadian lumber.
His push to legalize gay marriage throughout Canada also raised the hackles of Republicans south of the 49th parallel, but Martin is widely respected worldwide for Canada's neutrality and open arms toward immigrants and minorities.
Canada's Conservatives, by contrast, are seen as much more receptive to improving relations with Washington, though a majority of Canadians opposed the war in Iraq and the policies of President Bush.
Conservative Party leader Stephen Harper favors tax cuts and opposed Martin's successful bill to legalize same-sex marriage throughout Canada. He would become prime minister if the Conservatives receive the most seats in Parliament.
"This is not just the end of a tired, directionless, scandal-plagued government," Harper said after Monday's vote. "It's the start of a bright new future for this country."
The opposition is banking on the public's disgust with a corruption scandal involving the misuse of funds targeted for a national unity program in Quebec.
An initial investigation absolved Martin of wrongdoing, but accused senior Liberal members of taking kickbacks and misspending tens of millions of dollars in public funds.
The government ran into peril this month when it lost the support of the New Democratic Party, whose backing earlier this year helped Martin escape a previous no-confidence motion by a single vote. New Democrat leader Jack Layton said he had not received enough assurances the Liberal Party would fight the increased use of private health care in Canada.
Martin appears prepared to take his chances with a holiday campaign and blamed his opponents for any inconvenience to the predominantly Christian electorate.
The prime minister had promised to call an election within 30 days of the release of a follow-up report on the corruption scandal. The document is expected Feb. 1, which would have meant elections in the first week of April, a time that suits Canadians better than the bitterly cold and busy holiday season.
Although no formal agreement is in place, all the parties are likely to agree to a pause in the campaign around the Christmas and New Year holidays. The campaign is expected to start Tuesday, after Parliament is dissolved.
Unemployment in Canada is at a 30-year low and Canada runs a budget surplus.
Andrew Stark, a political science professor at the University of Toronto, maintained that the campaign would not be decided until the final days. Stark, however, believes the Conservatives will win a minority government if Canadians view another Liberal and New Democrat coalition as being unaccountable with tax money.
The last time a Canadian political campaign coincided with the holiday season was in 1979, when Joe Clark's minority Conservative government was toppled just weeks before Christmas. That vote was delayed until February, however, when Pierre Trudeau and the Liberals took back Parliament.
The latest collapse comes 17 months after an election that turned a Liberal majority into a fragile minority on June 28, 2004.
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:04 am
by Lyion
Careful, the local Canucks here get edgy and nasty if you discuss their government.
I guess I would too if I paid their rates in taxes.
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:05 am
by Captain Insano
woah... liberals fucking up a whole country.. Now thats news!@
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:07 am
by Zanchief
Do you guys actually know what this "scandal" really is, or are you just content knowing there is one?
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:08 am
by kaharthemad
I would be interested in hearing. please, do tell.
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:11 am
by kaharthemad
Nevermind....
The scandal
The sponsorship program was originally conceived in 1996 and was a response to a referendum in 1995 in which Quebecers voted narrowly against a proposal to separate from Canada. Funds were allocated to promote Canada through cultural and sporting events in Quebec, where separatist sentiment was still strong. The program itself is seen by many as inefficient propaganda; it mainly consisted in buying publicity space at local events (festivals, sports stadiums, etc.) and showcasing Canada's flag.
Allegations of misuse of funds and Royal Canadian Mounted Police investigations, called for by Prime Minister Jean Chrétien, began in 1999, but little was known of what had occurred and the public showed little interest in the affair. In 2002, Alfonso Gagliano, the minister supervising the department responsible, was removed from cabinet and sent as ambassador to Denmark.
Misuse of funds had been known for a few years which led Prime Minister Jean Chrétien to ask the Auditor General Sheila Fraser to audit the program. Her report was a fuller account of the situation and was made public in early February 2004. In her report, Fraser revealed that up to $100 million of the $250 million spent on the sponsorship program from 1996 to 2001 had been paid to advertising firms for commissions or other fees. In some cases, work that was billed for was never performed. It is interesting to note that Fraser's report was originally scheduled to be released in November 2003, when Chrétien was Prime Minister. However, Chrétien prorogued Parliament and the report could not be tabled until Parliament reconvened in 2004. Late in 2003 Chrétien retired and Paul Martin was chosen as the new leader of the Liberal Party, thus becoming Prime Minister.
The scandal reemerged into the public spotlight in February 2004 when the Auditor General's investigation of the affair was revealed. She blamed not only Public Works and Government Services Canada, but powerful Crown Corporations including VIA Rail and Canada Post. As a result of the report, and given the scandal's breadth, questions were being raised as to what involvement, if any, the Prime Minister's Office had in the misuse of funds. Questions were then raised by the opposition as to how the then Finance Minister now Prime Minister, Paul Martin, could not have known of the problems with the program. Both Chrétien and Martin have denied ever being aware of any of these details of the contracting process for the program. Martin supports his argument by reminding people that Chrétien left him out of issues regarding national unity.
New Prime Minister Paul Martin responded to the report by immediately firing Alfonso Gagliano from his position of ambassador to Denmark and launching a public inquiry into the matter. Alfonso Gagliano responded by launching a $4.5 million lawsuit against Martin and the government of Canada for defamation and wrongful dismissal claiming that Martin exceeded his authority as Prime Minister in firing him. Martin, who was Finance Minister from 1993 to 2002, has insisted the scandal was orchestrated by a very select group of individuals and that he had no knowledge of their actions. Further distancing himself from the scandal, he alleged that the problems on the previous administration of Jean Chrétien, under which the spending occurred. A number of the people most closely embroiled in the scandal are Chrétien loyalists, such as Chief Executive Officer of Canada Post André Ouellet and head of VIA Rail Jean Pelletier. Opposition critics have alleged that Martin could not have been unaware of the activities, as he was Finance Minister, a senior Quebec cabinet minister and a member of the Treasury Board during the time of the scandal. Martin responded to these charges when he testified to the Gomery Commission, but that has not stopped the accusations. It should be noted that the Auditor General's report cleared Martin of any involvement in the scandal.
In the weeks following the Auditor General's report, it became clear that the upcoming election would be affected in some way. Some argued that voters should know the outcome of the enquiry before going to the polls, in order to have an informed decision; others believed the Martin government should not continue for long without seeking a mandate. In the end, the election was called for June 28, 2004. The result of this election was a minority government.
Since that election, the Liberal government has been rocked by testimony of Jean Brault, a man charged with theft of over $30 million in the program. His testimony was originally under a publication ban due to the criminal charges, but Justice Gomery removed that ban when the testimony became widespread through Internet blogs. The following day, newspapers across the country printed sensational headlines on the basis of this man's testimony. Some other witnesses later contradicted Brault. Testimonies continued until the end of May 2005. A preliminary report, commonly called the Gomery Report, was released on November 1, 2005; it supports Prime Minister Martin's claim that he was not at fault. A final report is to be published in February 2006, and though Martin pledged that he will call an election within 30 days of that publication, the opposition, on November 28th, 2005, forced an election a month earlier, in January. It is widely expected to be called for January 16th or 23rd, as all Canadian elections must take place on a Monday (Or Tuesday, should the Monday for which the election is called be a national holiday).
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:26 am
by Zanchief
Shocking isn't it.
Opposition to the Liberal party have been using it for political posturing for 5 years now?
It only become news on NT when news got all the way to Ohio and Lyion saw the words Canada, Liberal, and Scandal all in one sentence and had a little bit of seminal leakage.
To us, this was old news last year when we had the last election, and with the efficiency of our media, I’m sure we get to hear all about it AGAIN in this election.
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:41 am
by Tikker
I think I'd probably look at moving elsewhere if the tories get into power
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:17 am
by Lyion
Zanchief is one of those people who feel Stephen Harper is a scary bad man with a secret Dr Evil hidden agenda. He's not a good person, like Martin who ran the finance department which did the equivalent of Enron to the Canadian taxpayers, and yet didn't have a clue about the people who worked for him, supposedly.
Ask Zan and he'll tell you he hasn't a real clue about politics and just votes like the Pravda Canada tells him to. Which is why he votes for Sgt Schultz for Prime Minister. Both of them know nothing. Nothing at all.
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:27 am
by Zanchief
Lyion wrote:Zanchief is one of those people who feel Stephen Harper is a scary bad man with a secret Dr Evil hidden agenda.
Well, he is, no matter what your silly Canadian friends tell you. Aside from that, he's also unelectable.
Lyion wrote:He's not a good person, like Martin who ran the finance department which did the equivalent of Enron to the Canadian taxpayers, and yet didn't have a clue about the people who worked for him, supposedly.
It should be noted that the Auditor General's report cleared Martin of any involvement in the scandal.
Lyion wrote:Ask Zan and he'll tell you he hasn't a real clue about politics and just votes like the Pravda Canada tells him to. Which is why he votes for Sgt Schultz for Prime Minister. Both of them know nothing. Nothing at all.
Have I ever mentioned who I vote for? Nice assumption. Neither Tikker nor I vote Liberal, but we would rather have them in office than your man-crush Harper. I think it's the name Liberal that has you all spun upside-down, Lyion. It's confusing for some unable to think for themselves.
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:48 am
by Lyion
Plenty of people at the top in Enron were cleared too! They are just as innocent as Martin!
I understand though, since you get your news from state sponsored media, comrade, and truth and facts should never get in the way of the CBC!
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:57 am
by Zanchief
...how can you still be on that?
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:32 am
by kaharthemad
Now i am not up on current events but a no confidence vote had to be 2/3 majority doesn't it?
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:57 am
by Tikker
no confidence is simple majority (50% +1 iirc)
ps lyion, you really sound more and more retarded as you froth at the mouth about the word "liberal"
despite what you may have heard, liberal in canada is quite different from liberal in the US
With all that being said, I'm not sure there's actually many politicians out there right now that I'd actually vote for (I never vote along party lines, as that's retarded, and for the weak minded)
it will be a long time I think before the Conservatives ever win a majority government. The NDP never will (despite the fact they line up with my idealogy the closest, they're not financially strong enough to govern imo)
the Liberals are much more so in the middle than any other party, and a minority liberal government is actually probably the best solution
they can't ram thru stupid shit, and the other parties are strong enough to get some of their agenda thru (ie you actually have government kind of working together instead of the dominant party ramming thru everthing, no matter what)
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:02 am
by kaharthemad
so what I want to know is is the Democratic party of Canada and the Conservative party are they similar to the parties as far as ideals as the US? i.e. left wing and right wing?
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:05 am
by Zanchief
No one is as right wing as the US parties, maybe some fringe independents, but they wouldn't get elected. For a while the conservative party broke into two separate parties and one was really bad (conservative) but they re-merged because of consistent assrape.
From left to right
NDP-Liberal-Conservative.
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:29 am
by Lyion
Wow, I see some very defensive Canucks who post like assholes whenever someone points a fact out about their government.
Heck, I like Paul Martin. He is close to my views politically in many regards. He's also a huge step up from Jean, but I like to see Zan go apeshit when I post facts, and concurrently watch as Tikker sticks his head up Z's ass in an ignorant display of Canadian politics and complete silliness from any neutral observation.
Kahar, their government is different from ours, and more akin to the Euro government models. They do not have a good separation of powers and their setup pushes more from a national level than the U.S. Which is why their Finance Ministry can rob their government blind, and yet the head of finance who ran the department isn't at all accountable. Only in Canada!
They lean much more socialist and government heavy than the U.S. in a Euro fashion. Many of their conservatives are actually much more conservative than ours, but the Canadians posting don't have a clue about our system so they really just post from a hugely biased perspective, without a clue about U.S. politics and wouldn't have the slightest inkling of the fact Rudy Giuliani and Arlen Specter are much more liberal than most of the Liberal Party in Canada.
Canada does have a good multi party system, but it lacks power because their separation isn't nearly as good as ours, and their politicians have a lot more power and less accountability. Thus, you get more scandals, and less accountability.
The sad simple fact is Canada has a lackadaisical public, a negligent media and inept opposition parties. You can look at Chretien's 10 year reign of incompetence and scandal and easily see that.
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:40 am
by Tikker
Lyion, you are the mindia of politics
For anything Lyion posts about canadian politics, just ignore him.
The fact that he equates being liberal and the Liberal party is kind of ccc, and wuwu all at the same time
for Kahar:
so what I want to know is is the Democratic party of Canada and the Conservative party are they similar to the parties as far as ideals as the US? i.e. left wing and right wing?
Like Zan said, none of the major parties in canada is as right wing as the rebublicans, and your democrats are roughly similar our middle of the road liberal party
the Conservatives fall between your dems and rebublicans
the NDP is a fair bit left of your Democrats
Overall the country is a fair bit more left minded compared to the US
the best way to describe the differences between the countries is:
In Canada, when people have a problem, they turn to the government for help
In the USA when people have a problem, they tell the governement to stay out of it
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:47 am
by Zanchief
Keep trying to bait, Lyion. Next time try actually providing something of substance to back it up.
Sad part is you’re pretty much 180 degrees off from everything you said.
Canadians are very politically involved and have very little political apathy.
If you're confused you could just check voter turnout a simple google search put you guys down about 10% on Canadians.
As far as accountability, Canadians hold our elected officials very accountable, that's actually something I think we have over you guys. In the US, you don't stray to far from party lines if a politician is found culpable. Here, people on all sides of the fence hold them accountable.
Oh and just to keep your next post relevant, which I'm sure will include some remark about me 'going apeshit', damn American, long live communism and all the rest of all that stuff, you know, what ever you make usually, I said all that too.
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:49 am
by Lyion
No Tikker, Zan and you are the Harrison of Current Affairs. Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dumber.
I suggest if you want to discuss things, you actually learn about the US political parties, or at least do what Zan does and admit that he is solely a troll without any real knowledge and just an agenda of buffoonry.
Neither of you has a clue and yet you keep spouting off things that make you look like a complete imbecile to anyone who understands US and Canadian Politics. At least you have a grasp on Canadian, so I suggest you stick to it since your Harrison like posts on US politics really are comical.
I figured you'd get a clue and at least research Giuliani and Specter before you posted more drivel, but I guess ignorance is the norm, especially for Canadian voters. No surprise given what we see.
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:53 am
by Zanchief
If you can't handle being the least bit civil why do you bother coming here?
Maybe it's time you try and start up your new private forum again for the supposed 'intelligent' posters where you can all talk about how horrible liberalism is, without any opposition, which would instantly be deemed 'unintelligent'.
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:54 am
by kaharthemad
Tikker wrote:In Canada, when people have a problem, they turn to the government for help
In the USA when people have a problem, they tell the governement to stay out of it
hmmm think Ill stay with my government then thanks for the info.
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:58 am
by Zanchief
kaharthemad wrote:Tikker wrote:In Canada, when people have a problem, they turn to the government for help
In the USA when people have a problem, they tell the government to stay out of it
hmmm think Ill stay with my government then thanks for the info.
It's an ideological difference, Kahar. We're happy with ours and you’re happy with yours. Or maybe neither of us are happy with either but we live with it.
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:01 pm
by Lyion
Hmm, let's see. I've said nothing at all about the Liberal Party's stance on issues, and Tik keeps referencing I have. That's pretty damn wuwu~, especially since I've actually told you two I like Paul Martin.
I was being serious when someone made a nasty statement about me regarding seminal, and I don't mean Florida State.
Both of you have been taking cheap potshots, which you always do when anyone brings Canada up. I'm sorry you guys are embarassed about your country, but perhaps you could join the Bloc Quebecois party? Heck, maybe you both are!
Zanchief Returns wrote:It's an ideological difference, Kahar. We're happy with ours and you’re happy with yours. Or maybe neither of us are happy with either but we live with it.
Something we both can agree on!
The grass is indeed always greener.
Tikker wrote:In Canada, when people have a problem, they turn to the government for help
In the USA when people have a problem, they tell the governement to stay out of it
Except the U.S. spends more on entitlements and helping it's citizens than Canada does, so that isn't at all accurate.
Not a good analogy, I'll think of a better one.
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:08 pm
by Zanchief
Difference is I never claimed to be civil, far from it, you do. Plus I'm more charming so it comes off better when I do it.