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I'm hearing rumors that Wayne Fontes has the inside track. After all, he is the Vince Lombardi of the Lions!

-Out

except without the pesky superbowls

if i ever want to cheer for a winning home team i'm going to have to fucking move

Don't move to Cleveland.

me wrote:if i ever want to cheer for a winning home team i'm going to have to fucking move

they even lost to the lions

lyion wrote:Don't move to Cleveland.

Don't count Cleveland out just yet. Crennel's got them moving in the right direction, at least.

you can rule out Houston too...

We had Warren Moon and his playoff teams for like 7 seasons in a row and they couldn't get past the first round....

xaoshaen wrote:

lyion wrote:Don't move to Cleveland.

Don't count Cleveland out just yet. Crennel's got them moving in the right direction, at least.

Lerner almost outting Phil Savage so soon had me concerned they were taking one step forward, two steps back.

That said, even with good management they are several years from being competitive in the AFC North, in my opinion, mainly due to a dirth of talent.

They have much less on their team than Detroit, but I like RAC as a coach. It's just a matter of getting all the pieces in place. Numero Uno being a QB. I'm not sold on Charlie Frye yet.

Then, of course, there is the whole curse of Cleveland on all their first rounders, from Tim Couch to Kellen Winslow to Braylon Edwards. If I were Clevelands first round pick this year, I'd get a good insurance policy.

Thon wrote:if i ever want to cheer for a winning home team i'm going to have to fucking move

or you could just watch a better sport. detroit still has 2 winning teams.

Tuggan wrote:

Thon wrote:if i ever want to cheer for a winning home team i'm going to have to fucking move

or you could just watch a better sport. detroit still has 2 winning teams.

I dont think he is a Lions' fan.

Tuggan wrote:

Thon wrote:if i ever want to cheer for a winning home team i'm going to have to fucking move

or you could just watch a better sport. detroit still has 2 winning teams.

Hockey is gay. Detroit has one winning team that matters.

yes, in comparison to football, hockey is definately 'gay'. men in tights running into eachother and slappin one another on the ass, or fist fights. hmm.

Why do people always bring up fist fights when defending hockey? That's what boxing is for. Hockey blows.

maybe because fighting is part of the game? yeah, that must be it.

Ill never for the life of me get how people can like shit like football but think hockey blows or is gay

Probably because no one can relate to hockey. Maybe it requires too much. Most people relate to football, or baseball, or basketball because they have played it. Most americans havn't played hockey. Why? because it requires too much. I'm not saying it's a bad sport, i'm saying it's a horribly unmarketable sport, because most people can't do it. Skates, sticks, pucks, ice arenas... the logistics of hockey are beyond the capabilities of most americans. Therefore - in this country - it will forever be 4th best, and lucky if it can hold onto that title.

Feel free to argue, but you will be wrong, and even worse, you'll know im right when you make your ridiculous arguement.

It's a good sport, it's just not a feasible sport, for most people.

Tuggan wrote:maybe because fighting is part of the game? yeah, that must be it.

It's not supposed to be. How many fights did Gretzky get into?

Cheap shot dirtbag hits are common, too. Football Athletes are bigger, stronger, and faster than Hockey ones playing a more violent game, but you don't see any Bertuzzi/Moore like incidents there.

Also, football is a lot more tactical, strategic, and in depth. Hockey is basically soccer, on ice.

Football Athletes are bigger, stronger, and faster than Hockey ones playing a more violent game, but you don't see any Bertuzzi/Moore like incidents there.

Or, is it because football is over reffed, over fined, over nicified in a strained attempt to make the vast majority of the players not bring their thug life out on the field? The only thing keeping a Ron Artest like appearance a weekly occurance on the football field is an 8 foot wall.

And Spliffs, requires too much? How does NASCAR fit into that tidy little piece? Lots of kids stock car racing in high school these days?

Everyone at my school played hockey. The only thing 'required' is 4 months of ice, and the only thing limiting that is location.

Minrott wrote:

Football Athletes are bigger, stronger, and faster than Hockey ones playing a more violent game, but you don't see any Bertuzzi/Moore like incidents there.

Or, is it because football is over reffed, over fined, over nicified in a strained attempt to make the vast majority of the players not bring their thug life out on the field? The only thing keeping a Ron Artest like appearance a weekly occurance on the football field is an 8 foot wall.
.

No, football is a more disciplined, in depth sport. The stakes are higher and the focus is on team. This is different from a sport that essentially has players who truly are thugs and cheap shotters on their soccer on ice teams.

As far as thuggery, it still comes out, but its on the fringe, not a part of the game, as it should be. I'm sure Marcus Vicks stomping or Sean Taylors spitting would not be reprehensible in Soccer on ice.

lyion wrote:

Tuggan wrote:maybe because fighting is part of the game? yeah, that must be it.

It's not supposed to be. How many fights did Gretzky get into?

Cheap shot dirtbag hits are common, too. Football Athletes are bigger, stronger, and faster than Hockey ones playing a more violent game, but you don't see any Bertuzzi/Moore like incidents there.

Also, football is a lot more tactical, strategic, and in depth. Hockey is basically soccer, on ice.

Gretzky himself? probably not a single one. He was too small to hold his own. Im sure there were probably hundreds on his behalf though. I think your perception of hockey is a bit off Lyion. Fighting IS part of hockey. It has been since day one, nowadays its getting sissified and fighting is less common. Im not even going to waste the time explaining the Bertuzzi/Moore incident to someone with no concept of the sport.

Along the same lines, Hockey players are among the more modest and down to earth of all professional athletes. They very rarely have a negative comment about another team or player. You have hardly any media darlings that just love to mouth off to the media. Theyre the most charitable, and make the least. On many occasions the 'goon' on the team is one of the more respected and loved members of the team in his community, not just because he defends his team on the ice... but because the majority of them are the nicest fellas off the ice.

Theres no way the majority of football players are more athletic than a hockey player. Football is the only sport you can weigh 400+lbs and still be considered an athlete. Plays last all of 5-10 seconds, then you get 5 minutes of commercials to sit around drinking gatorade trying to catch your breath because youre 1 play from having a fucking heart attack. There is no doubt which athlete is the most athletic, you put on a pair of skates and try to skate full speed with a stick while taking body checks for 2 minutes straight. Then go run into some other fat slob and lay around on the feild for a couple minutes and tell me which was more difficult.

Strategic? Tactical? In depth? HAHAHA, thats like saying baseball is the 'Thinking Mans game'. Learn a thing or two about hockey, then tell me that kinda crap.

Spliffs wrote:Probably because no one can relate to hockey. Maybe it requires too much. Most people relate to football, or baseball, or basketball because they have played it. Most americans havn't played hockey. Why? because it requires too much. I'm not saying it's a bad sport, i'm saying it's a horribly unmarketable sport, because most people can't do it. Skates, sticks, pucks, ice arenas... the logistics of hockey are beyond the capabilities of most americans. Therefore - in this country - it will forever be 4th best, and lucky if it can hold onto that title.

Feel free to argue, but you will be wrong, and even worse, you'll know im right when you make your ridiculous arguement.

It's a good sport, it's just not a feasible sport, for most people.

I guess that would be 100% regional. Around here, a street hockey stick and a tennis ball is enough to play hockey.

I played Hockey, Tuggan, and I like the Sport. The only plus Hockey has over football is almost everyone who plays it, do so for love of the game, truly.

I just do not like the bullshit that accompanies it, and the dirtbag mindset that is acceptable in it.

I'm sure Bertuzzi is loved in his community. Heck, he's even on the Canuck olympic team, after ruining another mans life with a completely cheap shot. Model Citizen there.

I'd love to see a single hockey player who could keep up with any DB or WR in the NFL. I doubt he exists. Most of the NFL skill players are stronger, faster, bigger, and in better shape than any Hockey player. Especially the older guys still playing. It's not like Hockey players are actually running around. Those linemen you quote that are 300+ pounds, bench 500+ and can run 4.8 40s are probably faster than many of your hockey players, and overall better athletes.

Also, I'd love to see other people's opinions on your insinuation Hockey is more tactical than Football. You don't seem to know it well. Also, your quote about large guys is also comical, since you don't understand what's involved in the game.

Finally, you know Hockey is athletically a joke, because there are so few brothers who play it.

Tuggan wrote:Along the same lines, Hockey players are among the more modest and down to earth of all professional athletes. They very rarely have a negative comment about another team or player. You have hardly any media darlings that just love to mouth off to the media. Theyre the most charitable, and make the least. On many occasions the 'goon' on the team is one of the more respected and loved members of the team in his community, not just because he defends his team on the ice... but because the majority of them are the nicest fellas off the ice.

Yeah, the thing I love most about hockey is the way the players are so reasonable about contract demands. You'd never see them pull a TO, and essentially shelve a whole season over monetary issues.

Theres no way the majority of football players are more athletic than a hockey player. Football is the only sport you can weigh 400+lbs and still be considered an athlete. Plays last all of 5-10 seconds, then you get 5 minutes of commercials to sit around drinking gatorade trying to catch your breath because youre 1 play from having a fucking heart attack. There is no doubt which athlete is the most athletic, you put on a pair of skates and try to skate full speed with a stick while taking body checks for 2 minutes straight. Then go run into some other fat slob and lay around on the feild for a couple minutes and tell me which was more difficult.

Yeah, all those 400+ pound football players in the NFL... You've hit the point where you're just making shit up and pretending it pertains to football somehow. I'll see your body check and raise you one Taylor hit on a lob pass over the middle.

Strategic? Tactical? In depth? HAHAHA, thats like saying baseball is the 'Thinking Mans game'. Learn a thing or two about hockey, then tell me that kinda crap.

Ah yes, mockery instead of refutation, the classic sign of a lost cause. Go ahead, try and come up with a hockey example that's as complex as line schemes, let alone cover schemes.

xaoshaen wrote: You'd never see them pull a TO, and essentially shelve a whole season over monetary issues.

Actually the NFL players tried this in the early 80s but the owners slammed down on them when they brought in replacement players. The owners didnt lose any revenues and the ratings didnt go down the toilet so the players' association caved. Since then all the contracts negotiation between the players and the league have went smoothly.

Phlegm wrote:

xaoshaen wrote: You'd never see them pull a TO, and essentially shelve a whole season over monetary issues.

Actually the NFL players tried this in the early 80s but the owners slammed down on them when they brought in replacement players. The owners didnt lose any revenues and the ratings didnt go down the toilet so the players' association caved. Since then all the contracts negotiation between the players and the league have went smoothly.

Yep, there've been seasons lost or shortened due to monetary issues in every American sporting league except for the NHL. Those guys are so modest and down to earth that they'd never throw away a season over filthy lucre. They just wanna play!