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Anyone know much about the field? Seems there's some good money to be made, and it's one thing that, as long as a company has computers in the United States, that they can't really have the Indians deal with. I've heard that they're in high demand too, or at least experienced ones are.

I guess what I'm most concerned about would be the entry level stuff. Say I'm fresh out of college with an Associates degree in computer networking, what then? I think it would be difficult to find a job jumping right into it, because these days experience is everything. Any ideas? I was thinking going to various entrepeneur groups to see if I can help out any small businesses, and then be on call for them basically.

KaiineTN wrote:Anyone know much about the field? Seems there's some good money to be made, and it's one thing that, as long as a company has computers in the United States, that they can't really have the Indians deal with. I've heard that they're in high demand too, or at least experienced ones are.

I guess what I'm most concerned about would be the entry level stuff. Say I'm fresh out of college with an Associates degree in computer networking, what then? I think it would be difficult to find a job jumping right into it, because these days experience is everything. Any ideas? I was thinking going to various entrepeneur groups to see if I can help out any small businesses, and then be on call for them basically.

Then you'd go back to college and complete a Bachelor's or a Master's. No one will hire you or take you seriously with an Associates and no documented experience in the field. Whoring out your free services outside of an intern based work program would do nothing for you as well. Best thing you can do is try and get a job related to the field while attending school and try to score educational reimbursement. Your last 2 semesters before your bachelors try and secure a full time internship and go from there.

I worked as a network engineer for about 6 years before the bottom fell out of the market. Not having had my Bachelor's done is a big reason why I'm back in school and not working full time right now. I got into it via a roundabout method that wouldn't be applicible to anyone else. (I worked as lead Tech Support engineer for a company that sold dialin security devices to Oracle, I was always going on-site to fix them whenever something broke, showed the guys at Oracle I had clue, so they hired me to run the system in-house, and would at the same time train me up in networking)

There's good money to be made in the field, but the hours are frequently long, and there's a constant battle to get funds for projects, as most business don't see IT/Networks as a profit generating method (unless they're a purely internet-based business, of course), so they figure the less money they give you, the better. Also, the market is still rather saturated, and entry-level positions are few and far between.

The big thing that would give you a leg up is if you got yourself some significant data security background, even just classes in it would help. If you can do Intrusdion Detection, security audits, and otherwise wear a Data Security hat on top of the Networking, then you're set.

Lastly, just a degree isn't going to get you very far, plan on getting certifications, as well. If you plan on dealing with routers, switches, etc. going for a CCNA at the VERY least is mandatory. A CCNP will help lots, and if you can actually get a CCIE, you're in very good shape, even with not much experience. Of course, getting a CCIE with no experience is highly non-trivial. If you're planning on doing Windows networking, and running MS boxes, make sure to learn MySQL and how to run Exchange servers, and get yourself an MCSE.

-Arlos

arlos wrote:Lastly, just a degree isn't going to get you very far, plan on getting certifications, as well.

Yeah, that.

I am a network admin. The market is ripe again. They can outsource all kinds of support positions but they still need a person on site to do installations and initial configurations. Get some MS and Cisco certs and learn as much as you can about TCPIP and packet handling.

For our networking department, degree is meaningless. For us, if you dont have your CCNP and either a MCSE and/or RHCE (preferably both), you may as well not even apply. Experience is also extremely important, espcaially if you dont have the certs to back you up. Keep in mind, our network is our business, they dont make mistakes when hiring into that department. For general network admins, I would say CCNA is a requirment if working with cisco (should have it regardless) and a high end cert in what ever the primary OS is on your network (MCSE microsoft, RHCE linux, Red Hat is probably what you will work with).

As far as I am concerned, my BS in CMSC is worth less then my RHCE and cost me about 80K more.

Yeah, I had a CCNP & a MCSE, but not much experience to back up the MCSE. Most of my experience was Cisco-side, with a smattering of remote access skills as well, as I worked with dialup, isdn, dsl, and other various methods of getting people online at home or in a small office. (worked for an ISP doing business turnups for about a year). I've configured EIGRP, RIP, OSPF, and even BGP, I'm at least conversant enough with unix & linux to do fresh installs and build servers, MS lots of theory at server admin, lots of experience with tinkering, and I at least used to know Cisco OS like the back of my hand. Oh, I could even configure PIXs and set up ACLs on the fly too. If not for the crash in '01, I'd easily have my CCIE by now; I was doing more and more CCIE-level work at WebEx, where I was at the time. I'd probably come close to fitting your specs, Gid, if not surpass 'em, just rusty as fuck these days. That and you live in, *shudder*, TEXAS...

Back in the internet boom, degrees didin't matter much. These days, here in silicon valley anyway, there's so many tech people looking for such a limited suite of positions, having a BS is the initial cutoff metric, regardless of certifications and experience. Anyway, when I'm done with school this go around, I should come out of it with the following: BSCS, re-upped CCNP, a decent security & design background, a 2nd level SunOS administration certificate, knowledge of Java & Perl, and even a Bio-Informatics certificate. Should hopefully not have trouble finding work at that point. heh.

-Arlos

We are having serious problems finding qualified techs that aren't socially retarded. Honestly, either they are very knowledgable but have no social skills or they are really charming but totally clueless.

I am a perfect balance of both and am worth my weight in cocaine.

We have another guy starting on Wednesday... he seems nice enough but he is most certainly a fucking dork. If he doesn't make a fool out of himself in front of customers, he should work out.

Toss, get me an internship, npnp? That'd be pretty cool actually, just kind of learning from watching and helping out where I could.

Heh, Toss, I worked Tech Support for several years before doing networking, so I can actually deal with customers on a semi-sane level. I KNOW I'd be an asset to whoever hired me, the problem is convincing THEM of that. rofl

-Arlos

KaiineTN wrote:Toss, get me an internship, npnp? That'd be pretty cool actually, just kind of learning from watching and helping out where I could.

it's pretty hard to do internship in networking


generally you need to know a shit ton of stuff just to handle the basics


I started in networking, and have since moved up to architecture of the network. best thing you could do would be to learn tcp/ip inside and out

learn ethereal inside and out

big big big market for multicast knowledgable people coming up(95%+ of IP TV will be via multicast)

definately get your CCNA, MCSE etc

a comp-sci degree means fuck all in the networking world

KaiineTN wrote:Anyone know much about the field? Seems there's some good money to be made, and it's one thing that, as long as a company has computers in the United States, that they can't really have the Indians deal with. I've heard that they're in high demand too, or at least experienced ones are.

I guess what I'm most concerned about would be the entry level stuff. Say I'm fresh out of college with an Associates degree in computer networking, what then? I think it would be difficult to find a job jumping right into it, because these days experience is everything. Any ideas? I was thinking going to various entrepeneur groups to see if I can help out any small businesses, and then be on call for them basically.

Is there a good money to be made in this field? As a tech: no. I did this from the time I was 19 until about 25. Its an awful field to be in, IMO.

I shouldn't say their isn't money to be made, but the investment in time and education is HUGE before you see any real cash.

I would say that a master's degree coupled with at least 7 years experience is where you need to be to see the big bucks. What you will find is that the systems engineers, IT managers are the ones makeing the real cash.

In a nutshell I found it very difficult to enjoy this line of work. I HIGHLY suggest you try and get into some sort of sales job before you think about any other career field... You might find you're good at it and make a fuckton on money.

I probably could handle certain sales jobs.. As long as I knew whatever I was selling isn't a ripoff and is something that people really do need/want. My Dad was pretty successful doing car sales, and I have friends that deal with real estate sales and such. It would be great interpersonal experience for me too, since that is probably where my weakest skills are. I wonder where a good place to start in sales is though?

macdonalds is your future

meh, maybe I'll just go for an MBA or something... No idea what to do with it though, but I know I've always been interested in business in general so I'm sure the knowledge could only help me.

Ever since you started making posts about what you want to do for a career you've done the best you can to find the most over saturated markets you possibly could. An MBA? What are you going to do with it?

I don't care what field you want to go in, but I think you have the idea either from school guidence counselors or someone else that if you have some super secret special degree that you'll instantly jump into a junior exec position.

Sales is cut throat. It is hit or miss. It may take you years to get into the right position, in the right market, to actually earn.

MBA jobs have dried up considerably over the last 5 years as companies learn they have to lean up to be competitive, and having a corporate structure shaped like and upside down triangle isn't going to cut it.

Networking is great, there's a long time future there. As long as you stay current. That's one of those fields that is going to be forever evolving and will require you to stay ahead of the curve to be competitive.

Bottom line? You don't have any idea what you want to do. And because you don't know what you want to do, you are looking for advise to take the fast track to the top in 'anything that might pay well.'

It won't work. Figure out what you want to do, there is something that appeals to you more than the rest, and start at the bottom. Work your ass off both in school and in your first entry position. Look at the other guy and do what you have to take to be better than him. Do that and you'll be rewarded in the long run.

Hasselhoff wrote:Is there a good money to be made in this field? As a tech: no. I did this from the time I was 19 until about 25. Its an awful field to be in, IMO.

I've been doing tech support for going on 5 years now. The pay isn't that great. We're always short handed and there's been times recently that I'm the only one in my department for the last 3 hours of the day (which is rather disappointing for a NYSE/Fortune 500 company I think).

I'm glad to see this thread as I've been wondering what I'd need to do to get more into the same field as Kaiine asked about. Which certs should I try for first?

I'm wanting to get into IT for a Native American tribe that has there HQ here in my hometown. If I can get on there, I'd make decent money for where I live and they'd pay for me to get more certs and/or college all the way up to a Masters.

Minrott wrote:Ever since you started making posts about what you want to do for a career you've done the best you can to find the most over saturated markets you possibly could. An MBA? What are you going to do with it?

I don't care what field you want to go in, but I think you have the idea either from school guidence counselors or someone else that if you have some super secret special degree that you'll instantly jump into a junior exec position.

Sales is cut throat. It is hit or miss. It may take you years to get into the right position, in the right market, to actually earn.

MBA jobs have dried up considerably over the last 5 years as companies learn they have to lean up to be competitive, and having a corporate structure shaped like and upside down triangle isn't going to cut it.

Networking is great, there's a long time future there. As long as you stay current. That's one of those fields that is going to be forever evolving and will require you to stay ahead of the curve to be competitive.

Bottom line? You don't have any idea what you want to do. And because you don't know what you want to do, you are looking for advise to take the fast track to the top in 'anything that might pay well.'

It won't work. Figure out what you want to do, there is something that appeals to you more than the rest, and start at the bottom. Work your ass off both in school and in your first entry position. Look at the other guy and do what you have to take to be better than him. Do that and you'll be rewarded in the long run.

Actually, I want to do both. I've always enjoyed messing around with computers and electronics, and I think setting a network up could be enjoyable. As for the MBA, well, business runs in my family. My grandfather and father both owned successful businesses and I'd like to become an entrepreneur someday. I figure an MBA could certainly help me with that venture.

Another option I've considered (because I'd want to do them) would be video game design. I was thinking about starting small, like DS games similar to Big Brain Academy and such. I'd want to combine two of my passions in life: video games, and knowledge. Basically, a company that makes video games that, while entertaining, the sole purpose of their creation would be to teach/inform about various subjects.

I've also done a lot of research on biodiesel and have made some. Looked into starting a business making it but couldn't find a reliable supplier of WVO at a reasonable price.

I could go on and on, but the bottom line is that I have very diverse interests and I really can have fun doing just about anything, as long as I can continue to learn. I suppose my worst fear is getting stuck in a position where I do the same thing every day, for the same pay, without ever moving up.

Heh, you have no idea the amount of work entailed in being a Video Game Designer.

Be prepared to work 80 hour weeks MINIMUM, often. Frequently, as you approach deadlines, people do 100-110+ hour weeks. The guys at Blizzard, as WoW was getting into its final stages were getting to the office at 8am, leaving at 2am 18 hours later, then coming right back to work the next day at 8am, and doing this 7 days a week for a month.

Be prepared to be treated as a complete peon bitch for the first 3 years or so, as they give you all the shit work cause you don't know much yet. You'd best love making levels and zones for Quake/UT/HL2/etc, because that's in large part what you'll be doing every day for those 80 hour weeks.

How do I know all this, you might ask? My brother did/does that for a living. He started out being a contract game tester at Sega and worked his way up. Now, he's finally gotten a plum slot, after 10 years of busting his ass.

-Arlos

KaiineTN wrote:
I could go on and on, but the bottom line is that I have very diverse interests and I really can have fun doing just about anything, as long as I can continue to learn. I suppose my worst fear is getting stuck in a position where I do the same thing every day, for the same pay, without ever moving up.

well, best thing to remember is that jobs are for making money, not for having fun

if you can find a job you really enjoy, it's a bonus

KaiineTN wrote:Actually, I want to do both. I've always enjoyed messing around with computers and electronics, and I think setting a network up could be enjoyable. As for the MBA, well, business runs in my family. My grandfather and father both owned successful businesses and I'd like to become an entrepreneur someday. I figure an MBA could certainly help me with that venture.

An MBA won't help you as much as you think when it comes to entrepreneurial skills. You just have to learn and execute. A lot of our leading entrepreneurs dropped out of college. I know a guy who drives a 911 Turbo and has a black card. He has 1 year of college and has the spelling and reading comprehension of spazz. His talent is knowing how to count money and maximize it's efficiency and sealing the cracks that the money can slip through. He also has an unbreakable demeanor to succeed. MBA might have helped him get there quicker perhaps, but his success is mostly based on his attitude and his intelligence.

Tikker wrote:

KaiineTN wrote:
I could go on and on, but the bottom line is that I have very diverse interests and I really can have fun doing just about anything, as long as I can continue to learn. I suppose my worst fear is getting stuck in a position where I do the same thing every day, for the same pay, without ever moving up.

well, best thing to remember is that jobs are for making money, not for having fun

if you can find a job you really enjoy, it's a bonus

QFT

That's why they call it "work." Still though, some people really love their jobs. I remember as a kid I always wanted to be a National Park Ranger. Maybe I should've gone that route way back when...

Yeah, an internship doesn't really work out in my field. You need to know your shit because customers are paying $130-$250 an hour for your time and don't like it if you are standing there scratching your head on their dime.

Your job rocks, Toss. I have always envied you.

Flink, you have diverse interests. I get it. That's great, you'll probably have an enjoyable life because of it.

But trust me when I say pick something, get good at it, and do it. If you want to earn, you have to be great at 1 or 2 things, not half ass at a bunch. Good luck.