namelesstavern.net

So I got in this debate with my bro, he and I are both liberal and I'd like to not make this a dem / rep debate.

It went something like this:

I'm of the opinion that TV will go the way of the dinosaur in the sense of all media source will be through a computer screen. I think it is very possible for this to happen over the next 20 years (I'm not saying books and shit will go away, just the prefered form of getting media will be the computer)

My kids today are allowed some liberal options when it comes to viewing TV. I let them watch cartoons and whatnot for a couple hours a day, a little bit before school and a little after. I don't watch it with them but I've never felt I've had to. This is for two reasons, one, I trust my kids, two, I know the FCC won't allow certain things at certain times to be put on TV. This isn't perfect but the FCC does "police" certain aspects of cable TV.

Anyway, the point is, when our primary media outlet will be a computer, how does a society allow the freedoms but also permit policing?

The heart of the debate went like this:
Bro: Parents should be responsible enough to lock down the computers such that kids can't get to shit they shouldn't get to. The government (if it really worked for the people) should provide this "lock down" software for free. (cliff note to the extreme)

Me: ain't gonna fuggin happen

I don't trust the government as it is and to think they would make some software for "free" and provide as a "service" is a bit crazy talk. At the same time, where will the FCC's place be when the internet is the source of media and viewing?

How do we as parents protect our children from things they shouldn't see?

How do we as a society actually enforce this (or should we)?

To think that the parents should take care of this isn't as true as many would like to think. Understand you folks here are a minority when it comes to computer savvyness. Take a look at where you folks work and ask yourselves how many parent / people here would even have a clue when it comes to this type thing? I look in my office and see about 10 folks out of 75 that would actually know to do something like this.

I guess this is the one of those items I'm on the fence about, liberal in me says the parent must do, the conservative in me says, how the hell can I depend on parents to protect their kids on this topic.

Keep in mind all those statistics about how the general populace of our country is less then smart.

This is a bit of splatering but I hope some folks can follow my delemia / concern.

You don't pay attention to what your kids watch on TV? I watch at least one episode of whatever shows they wanna see and if it gets my stamp of approval they can watch it...if not, they don't.

Same for the internet. I approve every website they visit.

Why allow some anonymous borg to pick what your children see or access?

No way the computer replaces television. Maybe for general stuff, but if you think of sports and movies, and certain shows being showcased in HD. TVs are not going anywhere, especially in the next 20 years.

As for the subject, I think the government should have absolutely no business with the internet whatsoever.

I know that will never happen though.

It’s really difficult for the government to control something that isn't owned by us. I also don’t think that the government is under any obligation to provide free software to protect children from the internet. Many companies that are selling computers are starting to bundle this software in, you will probably also see MS add some sort of protection into windows at some point for this.

In my opinion, its my job as a parent to determine what my children should and should not be watching, not the government. I am willing to take on that responsibility myself and would much prefer the government just stay out of it.

What are you afraid of them seeing and why ?


I dont think there is anyway other than parental monitering that would work out and still keep the internet functioning. I also have a hard time seeing a real young kid looking up porn or making weapons and i dont see the harm if an older kid sneeks and looks at porn cuz its no diffrent than us growing up finding playboy or hustler. . Way i was brought up i was allowed to watch whatever but my BEAHVIOR was watched. I think if your a good parent your kid wont be lookin at porn till they get intrested in sex wont run off will a molestor and probibly wont be looking into making a pipe bomb. All you guys think back ... were your parents way out of thier heads concerned with what you might be seeing and hearing ?

I think that within 50 years, the keyboard and the mouse will be obselete. TV might not look like a TV meaning it might not be a box that sits on a stand or a panel that hangs on your wall. Zanchief you mentioned sports, how about sitting on the sidelines to watch the game via hologram from the comfort of your own livingroom?

Yes well Start Trek, I'm talking about 20 years.

Point being when people sit down to watch CSI, they want to be comfortable, and you can't do that hunched over in your computer chair like a gargoyle.

Which is why it makes more sense to bring the computer to the tv rather than the tv to the computer.

Agree completely.

I don't know how they will transform the keyboard and the mouse though...

Probably an idea similar to minority report.

Im just thinking havent we fucked society up in the name of protecting the children enough allready?

Let me clarify some of the details I guess, I omitted them not thinking they would be required.

I don't let my kids watch arbitray TV. I do confirm the types of shows they are permited to watch. For example I don't like anime (I have reasons), so they are not permited to watch any show using this type drawing technique. They aren't allowed to watch MTV, etc. In a nutshell, they are permited to watch food network, cartoon networ, disney, and nick/nickjr.

My thought was more along the lines of how a child craves information / knowledge. Say he sees the name jeff berg on a TV stand walking down the street. Does a google search, etc etc I hope you see where this is going.

Now for me and my kids per-say, I really don't have the worry I'm made in my first and this post. I'm computer savvy and my boys are protected to the best of my ability from any of these issues. However my sons friend bobby doesn't have computer savvy parents, etc.

This isn't so much how Clakar can keep tabs on information his kids see, it is how will the majority of parents in America keep tabs on what their kids see.

A big point to keep in mind here is education, you all here I'd hope to say are educated and know the answers. The majority of our nation is near the opposite of you. Do you see where this is going, perhaps I've longwinded this into oblivion :\

Maybe if you'd post some examples we'd be able to understand where you are coming from.

To clear up another point. Toss my TV's are gone business out the window.

Say TV's are the portal but the content will be sourced from the internet. The ease of information gain is be there. That is the problem, how do we as a nation, protect kids from things like pornography, graphic violence, drugs, etc.

I'm not talking about the 16+ year olds, I'm talking from k-8 or so.

I've grown uneasy with my country and how often I hear the "let the parents do it" when you and I know the parents thus far, can be relied upon, that is the predicament(sp)

I don’t think it’s our place as a nation to protect our children from these things. That is a job for their parents. The parents need to determine what they want their children to see and then enforce that. The government should not be making this choice for them.

Say TV's are the portal but the content will be sourced from the internet. The ease of information gain is be there. That is the problem, how do we as a nation, protect kids from things like pornography, graphic violence, drugs, etc.

The computer and the TV are viewed through the same console but are booted separately like multiple operating systems on one computer. Your children have their own password for the computer just like they have separate account now.

Clarkar, you gotta remember, the parents of tomorrow are the children of today. A lot of the people you are talking about that you see that are so computer ignorant didn't grow up with computers in their houses like kids are now. They are being taught how to use them in school, they use them at work, they use them at home. Their generation will by no means be computer illiterate. True, with new technology, the younger generations seem to latch on quicker, so by the time these kids are parents perhaps we'll be in a similar situation.

And of course you'll have to assume they'll want to bother monitoring at all... but right now our country is very id-centric and focused on having fun. We'll probably snap back to more conservative methods in the upcoming years, as we round out our cycle.

Ginzburgh wrote:Maybe if you'd post some examples we'd be able to understand where you are coming from.

Ok examples:

Kid sees the name jeff berg plasterd all over the place because of this big news deal. Kid does a google search on his TV (didn't say computer) for jeff berg, what do you think would be in the first page of this search, o probably his beheading video.

Kid gets prompted by a guy selling meth, he knows it is bad cuz mom and dad told him so but he does a google search "meth fun" (cuz the dealer said it was "fun"), what do you think the first page will hold.

I could go on and on and yes these are all hypothetical and such.

I am liberal believe me, but this is one point where my gut tells me conservative shit. Simliar to my post about the donut eating fat guy. We can't keep saying "rely on the parents" because the parent and many adults are the cause of where we are today. I don't see it getting better without "something" happening.

I was actually referring to Spazz's post haha.

And the examples you posted are just as accessible from the computer you have now. Give the kids their own accounts and restrict what they can view. Problem solved.

I doubt that they will just take a computer and take a television and mash them together without giving the parent the option of restricting what their children can view. That will probably be on the top 10 list of things to think about when the developer gets around to designing the amalgamation.

Maeya wrote:Clarkar, you gotta remember, the parents of tomorrow are the children of today. A lot of the people you are talking about that you see that are so computer ignorant didn't grow up with computers in their houses like kids are now. They are being taught how to use them in school, they use them at work, they use them at home. Their generation will by no means be computer illiterate. True, with new technology, the younger generations seem to latch on quicker, so by the time these kids are parents perhaps we'll be in a similar situation.

And of course you'll have to assume they'll want to bother monitoring at all... but right now our country is very id-centric and focused on having fun. We'll probably snap back to more conservative methods in the upcoming years, as we round out our cycle.

Bro brought up this point too. Perhaps it is just we are in a low point and my kids happen to be growing up in it.

I don't want my kids seeing porn before they reach puberty
I don't want my kids seeing drug use before they reach high school (ain't gonna happen i know)
I don't want my kids seeing graphic violence.

All of the things I want I'd hope any good parent wants. However the ease to gain all of this information is scary. An 8 year old at the library can gain access to ALL of that and more.

Parents will always be afraid of what kids do. Be it clothes, computers, etc. Its different from what they grew up doing.

Problem is most parents freak out and do something drastic and emotionally cut themselves off from their kids and never are able to have a normal relationship.

For example, parent lets their kid play EQ, finds out that somewhere off in backwater hick town that some kid killed himself and his parents blamed EQ for that kids death. So now the first parent uninstalls EQ from their kids computer and adds passwords to the internet. Its very unlikely that this parent and child will then have a healthy relationship since the parent didn't bother to try to understand what was going on.

The #1 thing about it is trust, trust you raised your child right, get to understand what is "cool" for their generation instead of freaking out and making the wrong move.

I guess this is the wrong crowd to give this advice to, but whats there is there.

Maybe it's your reference to "the future" that is confusing me. All the things you are afraid your child has access to is available now pending the parents restriction. So in the future, what the child is allowed to see will depend on what the parent allows them to see, as it is now.

Ginzburgh wrote:I was actually referring to Spazz's post haha.

And the examples you posted are just as accessible from the computer you have now. Give the kids their own accounts and restrict what they can view. Problem solved.

I doubt that they will just take a computer and take a television and mash them together without giving the parent the option of restricting what their children can view. That will probably be on the top 10 list of things to think about when the developer gets around to designing the amalgamation.

Option = problem IMHO
Parents don't do enough now, and you are expecting more from them. You live here, you see what goes on, you know the populace is stupid and yet you and others expect the "parents" to do more. I was of this opinion as well, until I started coaching my U6 soccer league and started talking with more "common joe" type folks.

If they do this search at the library? at a friends house, etc. Me and my systems (especially the kids computer) is locked down big time. But is the libraries? Is the kids computer next door? etc. Should I worry about that? Should I have to? Do I need to interview all the parents my kids play with their kids? Do you have AV, do you have a FW, do you have any porn on your system, bla bla

That's where teaching your children the difference between right and wrong comes into play. Sorry, the only way to change things to "make it easier on you as a parent" is by extreme censorship and that's not going to happen.

ClakarEQ wrote:

Ginzburgh wrote:I was actually referring to Spazz's post haha.

And the examples you posted are just as accessible from the computer you have now. Give the kids their own accounts and restrict what they can view. Problem solved.

I doubt that they will just take a computer and take a television and mash them together without giving the parent the option of restricting what their children can view. That will probably be on the top 10 list of things to think about when the developer gets around to designing the amalgamation.

Option = problem IMHO
Parents don't do enough now, and you are expecting more from them. You live here, you see what goes on, you know the populace is stupid and yet you and others expect the "parents" to do more. I was of this opinion as well, until I started coaching my U6 soccer league and started talking with more "common joe" type folks.

If they do this search at the library? at a friends house, etc. Me and my systems (especially the kids computer) is locked down big time. But is the libraries? Is the kids computer next door? etc. Should I worry about that? Should I have to? Do I need to interview all the parents my kids play with their kids? Do you have AV, do you have a FW, do you have any porn on your system, bla bla

What do you do about the parent who has a supply of porn dvd's in their living room now?