namelesstavern.net

http://www.startribune.com/484/story/840115.html


Some people...

I just dont even know what to say to this....

In 2000, a Virginia woman was sentenced to five years in prison for killing her month-old son in a microwave oven. Elizabeth Renee Otte claimed she had no memory of cramming her son in the microwave and turning on the appliance in 1999. Experts said that Otte suffered from epilepsy and that her seizures were followed by blackouts.

I'm less shocked that someone did something like this then I'm shocked at the sentence handed down for the conviction. Elizabeth Otte was 19 at the time of the sentence, she'll be out of prison by age 24. She pled guilty to involuntary man slaughter which in Virginia carries a maximum sentence of 10 years, in doing so she avoided facing the charges on first degree murder which could have landed her with life in prison.... she didn't even get the max sentence, and will be out in plenty of time to have more kids.

The devaluation of the lives of children in this country is utterly sickening.

You see, it would be this mat that you would put on the floor... and would have different CONCLUSIONS written on it that you could JUMP TO.

yeah, but

In 2000, a Virginia woman was sentenced to five years in prison for killing her month-old son in a microwave oven. Elizabeth Renee Otte claimed she had no memory of cramming her son in the microwave and turning on the appliance in 1999. Experts said that Otte suffered from epilepsy and that her seizures were followed by blackouts.

if it's the honest truth that this happened during an epilepsy-caused blackout, as experts agree, then it is a tragic accident, not murder, and the involuntary manslaughter plea is justified. you never knew her-- she may have been a wonderful mother with a tragically unpredictable brain condition.

besides, i've seen people do less time for killing someone while driving drunk.

these people should be executed in the same manner as the crime they committed. No trial, no appeal. they are not human imo.

Thats fucked up... You have to really be out of your mind to even think of putting a baby in a microwave, everybody knows the oven would be more practical..JK

Thats sick shit...

so really, what was the reason behind making the new account?

Don't worry, the aclu will get her out of prison and say that she was abused and neglected as a child and the what she needs is counseling and rehabilitation.

Maybe they are innocent.

I'm not reading this, because if it's what I think it is it will piss me off all over again. this is the woman that microwaved her baby and then took it to the hospital, isn't it. I'm not reading it again.

hopefully someone will slit her throat in prison like that coon i caught in the dumpster this morning

The devaluation of the lives of children in this country is utterly sickening

What the fuck is that sposed to mean.

What part of that statement don't you understand?

All of it. I think its bullshit.

I think what Lueyen was trying to say was, the judicial system cares so little about our children, we only punished a woman with five years in prison for microwaving her baby.

Narrock wrote:Don't worry, the aclu will get her out of prison and say that she was abused and neglected as a child and the what she needs is counseling and rehabilitation.

No they wont

Ok...the child had a high internal temperature. You mean like a fever! OMG my kids have been in the microwave! They have fevers!

It's not like people ever have any birth defects or anything and lord knows having a child for an ENTIRE month would let her parents and doctors know by now if something was medically wrong with the child!

There's gotta be more to this than just the baby was hot inside.

Ginzburgh wrote:I think what Lueyen was trying to say was, the judicial system cares so little about our children, we only punished a woman with five years in prison for microwaving her baby.

read the rest goddamnit

experts testified that her epileptic seizures often caused blackouts

epilepsy is not a choice, not like alcohol and drunk driving are choices

the horror of unwittingly destroying one's own child due to a medical defect over which one has no control is a sentence which lasts well beyond the 5 years in the pen

meanwhile jane q. DWI in the next cell over is only doing a year for having one pitcher too many and jablowning someone's grandmother

it's not about the value of the child's life, it's about the circumstances of the case

Gaazy wrote:hopefully someone will slit her throat in prison like that coon i caught in the dumpster this morning

I seriously just laughed out loud.

Martrae wrote:You see, it would be this mat that you would put on the floor... and would have different CONCLUSIONS written on it that you could JUMP TO.

The article discusses two cases China Arnold and Elizabeth Renee Otte. In the Arnold case much is up in the air at the moment as the details have not been fully investigated. The Otte case has already taken place, and it was this case I was referring to in my comment. Most of that comment was statement of facts of the case, not my personal conclusions. The last line I suppose could be considered a conclusion, but I was hardly jumping there. I base that statement not on pre-conceived notions but on a myriad cases where people have received pittance or light sentences for doing either mortal or severe damage to the lives of children.

brinstar wrote:yeah, but

if it's the honest truth that this happened during an epilepsy-caused blackout, as experts agree, then it is a tragic accident, not murder, and the involuntary manslaughter plea is justified. you never knew her-- she may have been a wonderful mother with a tragically unpredictable brain condition.

besides, i've seen people do less time for killing someone while driving drunk.

No experts did not agree, both the defense and the prosecution in the case had expert witnesses in the area of epileptic seizures and black outs stating to the contrary.

Even if I completely accept that due to a mental condition she was not aware of what she was doing, there still remains a gross negligence on her part. Otte had stopped taking medication for her epilepsy due to her pregnancy, and had continued not taking it after the baby was born (I would assume because she was breast feeding). She was knowingly at greater risk of suffering a seizure. Given this medical condition any time she was the only person available to take care of the child she was placing the child at risk. One report I read stated that the coroner estimated that the baby died after 10 minutes in the microwave (I guess we are to believe that in her delusional state that she also felt it necessary to heat up the milk to a boiling point). Obviously there was no one around to help her should she suffer an attack (at least one would hope no one just allowed her to stuff her child in the microwave and turn it on).

As far as comparisons to drunk drivers killing people, light sentences for one does not justify that of another unless in making the comparison you feel those sentences as being right in line with the severity of the crime.

spazz wrote:

The devaluation of the lives of children in this country is utterly sickening

What the fuck is that sposed to mean.

Usually failure to understand a statement is rooted in a lack of understanding of the meaning of the words there in... so I'll take a shot in the dark.

devaluation - a lessening especially of status or stature
utterly -carried to the utmost point or highest degree
sickening - (Inflected form) to cause revulsion in

spazz wrote:All of it. I think its bullshit.

When a man brands his 9 year old daughter in the chest with a fucking clothing iron and is given custody of her after the fact, or when a convicted child molester of multiple children never sees the inside of a jail cell because the judge deems him to short for prison I'd say we as a society are seeing a failure to protect the most innocent and most vulnerable members of our society. Victimization of children in whatever form it takes, be it sexual, physical or mortal need to be squashed. Most studies place re offense rates of those convicted of abuse toward children at around 20 percent, of course those same findings also usually admit that most cases of child abuse never see the court room for a variety of reasons. So statistically about 1 in 5 child abuse offenders are likely to re-offend or at least 1 in 5 will be caught an prosecuted. Even if we accept those numbers as completely factual that's still 1 to many to be risking it in the name of rehabilitation and mercy.

I wasn't referring to your post when I posted that.

Huh, I was under the impression that people struck with epileptic seizures just sort of convulsed for awhile. I really don't know all that much about epilepsy, but being able to go through the complex motor tasks of popping a baby in the zapper, closing the door, and turning it on while going through an epileptic fit sounds kind of wacky.

However, I sense great comic potential in microwave-baby jokes! XD

Yamori wrote:Huh, I was under the impression that people struck with epileptic seizures just sort of convulsed for awhile. I really don't know all that much about epilepsy, but being able to go through the complex motor tasks of popping a baby in the zapper, closing the door, and turning it on while going through an epileptic fit sounds kind of wacky.

You are thinking of a tonic-clonic seizure or Grand mal seizure, there are somewhere around 40 different types and degrees. There are seizures that are mainly mentally incapacitating where the victim does not lose consciousness or suffer extreme loss of motor control.

Was there a reason given as to why Elizabeth Otte was allowed to be left alone with the baby running the risk of what could happen due to her condition? If she needed her medication to prevent blackouts, etc. then there should have been another adult around..imo.