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I know we've talked about this before but I wonder where everyone stands on this nowadays.

Tikker wrote:

arlos wrote:I play PC games, not Console games. It's not been until extremely recently that any console game has begun to approach the PC for what they can put in the game, as well as the graphics, etc. So sorry I preferred to use superior equipment to play my games on. OK, no, I'm not.

-Arlos

get off your high horse fag

final fantasy are some of the greatest games ever

period

console/pc whichever

Before EQ I was strictly a console gamer and I still prefer that platform. More titles, better variety, local multiplayer (it's so much more fun to talk shit in person), Arcade ports, fighting games, Final Fantasies, unique genres (ala Guitar Hero, Beatmania, etc etc), easier to set up with a home theater and mostly NO SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS. I still remember being pumped about Half Life then having to upgrade my system to play it. Basically I paid 600 dollars to play Half Life (and EQ of course).

PC's edge was always mmo (still is) and online multiplayer networks (which the console is taking a huge chunk of). Also, typically better graphics (HD consoles are gonna give PC's a run for the money in the graphics department) and much better FPS and RTS controlling (which I guess the console can duplicate). From what I can see, PC gaming will eventually be obsolete.

Jay wrote:From what I can see, PC gaming will eventually be obsolete.

Agreed.

I've been a gamer for 30 years now and have gone back and forth between consoles and computers. There will always be a market for both but for me, the cost and time involved in maintaining a gaming PC is not worth it for me. Besides my laptop, I have not spent more than $200 on PC upgrades in the last 3-4 years. My "main" PC at home right now is an Athlon 900 that I built in 2000 and it suits my PC purposes just fine. My 360, DS, Xbox, Dreamcast, NES, Saturn, Genesis, Jaguar, Virtual Boy, etc provide way more gaming fun than I have time for lately.

Like Toss talked about, I dont feel like upgrading my computer over and over again. My computer now barely plays damn WoW

with Consoles now being able to go online, there's not a lot of separation between the 2 anymore

Like others have said, there's absolutely nothing like pasting people in a multiplayer game when you're all sitting in the same room

goldeneye was kind of a shitty game, except for the awesome multiplayer action

there's absolutely nothing better(gaming wise) than playing 8 man NHL or Madden at 2 am after a night out with the guys

I feel that consoles have their place, especially as mentioned earlier in the thread, multiplayer for a game where you have a bunch of friends over camped on the couch. Unfortunately, I simply cannot stand console controllers, period. For one, they universally give me hand cramps if I play for very long, especially in the left thumb as you mash the direction pad. I get WAY more precise control with an actual joystick for flying games or games like Mechwarrior, and can move around a map on the screen much easier with a mouse than with moving a cursor with the direction pad. I can't even imagine trying to play a FPS with the kind of slow and imprecise movement you get with a gamepad as compared with a mouse + keyboard combo.

Not to mention, trying to move your fingers and hands to mash button combinations for games that require it feels insanely awkward to me, and rapidly accelerates the hand cramping I talked about. Hell, I played the flute for 8-10 years, good enough that instructors were telling me that if I dedicated myself to it I could be first section in a major philharmonic orchestra, so it's not that I lack for manual dexterity, but those controllers just don't work for me.

Also, it hasn't been until extremely recently that consoles have had the capability to actually patch games once they were released. Before, if there was a bug, no matter how crippling, you just had to put up with it. Fuck that. Now, I admit that is different, at least to some extent, if you have one of the latest consoles and have it hooked up to the internet. Even before the internet, most computer game companies at least had a BBS you could dial into and download patches from.

Furthermore, having looked at games that came out on the consoles vs games that came out on the PC, the console games were almost universally "action" type games, like platform jumpers, etc. which never interested me. PC games have always had a much broader selection of types of games, and the games produced for PCs almost always have had more depth and "stuff" to them. Not to mention, most of my favorite kind of games really simply don't exist on the consoles. Where is Civilization for the consoles, for example? How about Master of Orion? How about any Mechwarrior game past Mechwarrior 2? Rome: Total War, perhaps? Hell, where's a RPG with the customization, character choices, etc. of Baldur's Gate 2 or even Neverwinter Nights 2?

Lastly, PCs will always be ahead of consoles when it comes to graphics, if you're willing to keep your PC updated to at least near the cutting edge. Yes, that costs, but how much does it cost to upgrade a video card compared to getting a HD TV that will give you resolutions even remotely comparible to what you can get on a PC monitor? It costs you either way.

Anyway, I'm quite happy with sticking to PCs for the most part for games, if for no other reason than my hands don't hurt like hell after playing for an hour. Sure, consoles have their place, but that place will always be 2nd place to a PC.

-Arlos

PC games are lame as fck *bwahaha im on my computer watch out world* *sips diet mt. dew*

you could get Civilizations on consoles as far back as SNES days that I know of for sure

Romance of 3 kingdoms, ghengis khan, etc etc all came out for console before the PC and is where Civ was stolen from!


so in essence Arlos is saying "controllers make my flute playing hands hurt, therefore PC > Console"

Arlos plays the flute?

That's badass.

The only advantage I see PC has over console is multitasking. Even that could be solved, but on a computer I can alt tab out of a game, or eqwindows and play multiple copies, make notes, surf the internet, look up phat lewts that can drop, ect. When playing a computer game I don't have to spend 100% of the time playing the game. It is much more involved.

vonkaar wrote:Arlos plays the flute?

That's badass.

Skin flute, so I hear...

i prefer console :-0

ninja gaiden is cool

arlos wrote:I feel that consoles have their place, especially as mentioned earlier in the thread, multiplayer for a game where you have a bunch of friends over camped on the couch. Unfortunately, I simply cannot stand console controllers, period. For one, they universally give me hand cramps if I play for very long, especially in the left thumb as you mash the direction pad. I get WAY more precise control with an actual joystick for flying games or games like Mechwarrior, and can move around a map on the screen much easier with a mouse than with moving a cursor with the direction pad. I can't even imagine trying to play a FPS with the kind of slow and imprecise movement you get with a gamepad as compared with a mouse + keyboard combo.

Well yeah if you are pressure mashing the controller like a mongoloid of course you'll cramp up. New controllers nowadays are ergonomic and respond very sensitively so you don't have to mash hard. No Mechwarrior persay, but there is Armored Core, ZOE, and a few mech games out there. Yes, turning 180 degrees fast is harder to do on a controller, but imo that just adds to the challenge.

arlos wrote:Not to mention, trying to move your fingers and hands to mash button combinations for games that require it feels insanely awkward to me, and rapidly accelerates the hand cramping I talked about. Hell, I played the flute for 8-10 years, good enough that instructors were telling me that if I dedicated myself to it I could be first section in a major philharmonic orchestra, so it's not that I lack for manual dexterity, but those controllers just don't work for me.

Again, ease up. Most games don't have ridiculous button commands unless they're fughting games or fast paced action type games or sports. RPGs are most repetitive button pushing. Shooters generally work off of like 2 or 3 buttons. FPS uses a few, but again, accept the fact that you might suck right off the bat and learn the controls and get used to em, it'll be like second nature all over again vs. a keyboard.

arlos wrote:Also, it hasn't been until extremely recently that consoles have had the capability to actually patch games once they were released. Before, if there was a bug, no matter how crippling, you just had to put up with it. Fuck that. Now, I admit that is different, at least to some extent, if you have one of the latest consoles and have it hooked up to the internet. Even before the internet, most computer game companies at least had a BBS you could dial into and download patches from.

Name me a console game that had a glitch that made it absolutely unplayable. I really can't think of any. Aside from some clipping issue here or there and the occasional sound blip I've never run into a HUGE mistake on a console game. On PC however, Daggerfall was unbeatable until after like 10 patches. EQ, omg where do i begin. It's called, "Get it right the first time".

arlos wrote:Furthermore, having looked at games that came out on the consoles vs games that came out on the PC, the console games were almost universally "action" type games, like platform jumpers, etc. which never interested me. PC games have always had a much broader selection of types of games, and the games produced for PCs almost always have had more depth and "stuff" to them. Not to mention, most of my favorite kind of games really simply don't exist on the consoles. Where is Civilization for the consoles, for example? How about Master of Orion? How about any Mechwarrior game past Mechwarrior 2? Rome: Total War, perhaps? Hell, where's a RPG with the customization, character choices, etc. of Baldur's Gate 2 or even Neverwinter Nights 2?

Console games have a vastly broader selection of games. There are a lot of "universal action games" but there's plenty of sports, RPG's, shooters, and sims. You just have to pay attention.

arlos wrote:Lastly, PCs will always be ahead of consoles when it comes to graphics, if you're willing to keep your PC updated to at least near the cutting edge. Yes, that costs, but how much does it cost to upgrade a video card compared to getting a HD TV that will give you resolutions even remotely comparible to what you can get on a PC monitor? It costs you either way.

HDTV can be used for other things aside from games. HD monitors are pretty much only for gaming and graphic design. Sure you can watch a DVD on a computer but personally I'd much rather do that from my couch with the experience of my home theater surrounding that experience. Also, HD TV's can be as low as 600 bucks, same price as a video card for your comp or a motherboard processor combo, etc etc etc.

arlos wrote:Anyway, I'm quite happy with sticking to PCs for the most part for games, if for no other reason than my hands don't hurt like hell after playing for an hour. Sure, consoles have their place, but that place will always be 2nd place to a PC.

Numbers don't lie. Console numbers far surpass that of PC games. If you're talking about 2nd place it definately isn't referring to popularity or sales.

PC will replace consoles IMHO but the consolers will not think of it that way.

Look at the xbox, it is a PC but if you ask a consoler it is a "cosole".

So the question is (and no I didn't read it all sorry), what makes it a console vs a PC?

To think that PC games will go the way of the dinosaur is foolish, it will never happen, however the merger of the console in the PC while maintaining is "consoleness" is exactly what will happen, and you're already seeing it via the PS3, and XBox 360, both of those are about 50% "PC" and 50% console.

Standalone wholly integrated device geared towards gaming makes it a console. 95% of all components in the device are used to support the gaming functionality. It used to be 100% but now they are DVD players and net browsers.

I agree Clakar. I think of late the lines between Console and PC have blurred.

The Xbox 360 and PS 3 really aren't just game consoles. They are more akin to a PC, I think. Both have Operating Systems, Internet capabilities, Media Center capabilities, and do a lot more than just play games.

From a gaming standpoint, consoles have been supposedly going to kill PC gaming for pretty much the last 20 years. The problem with this is PCs are ubiquitous in most households now a days, and based on market share it's really tough to argue against selling your software to them. If there are a 100 million Playstations out there, I'd argue there are easily a billion PCs floating around.

What I'd personally like to see is games be more cross platform, and the devices used be less important. It'd be great if I could play WOW 2.0 on either the Xbox 720, The Playstation 4, or my uber fast new Microsoft Siberia desktop with the NVIDIA 9950 Graphics card.

Console gaming will continue to get better, but PC gaming isn't going anywhere from the foreseeable future. At least until WOW is ported to the PS3.....

I suspect that in the future we will see something akin to the combination of the two as the lines between them start to blur. Consoles will become hardware upgradeable, but not with the flexibility of PC's. To a game manufacturer who supports the after market product, I see a huge incentive here. How many tech support calls to game companies (or forum posts ect) are there where the root problem is not the software its self, but an issue with the OS configuration or individual hardware idiosyncrasies?

With the media capabilities of consoles, and the networking/internet capabilities I don't think it will be all that long before what we think of as the living room pc goes by the wayside at least for entertainment. What we think of as the console won't really be it either, but a hybrid of the two as well as a true entertainment system, that will be a primary component of your living room much like a cable box or surround sound system.

That's a good question, I has always assumed consoles will die out as they become more and more like PCs but I guess there really is no obsoleting now that I think of it. Console games fucking suck though for the most part, that about does it for me.

I'd rather spend my time & money on something that isn't solely dedicated for entertainment value than waste money on a system with an annoying controller only to find 2-3 good games amassed amongst a heap of complete shit.

God wrote:That's a good question, I has always assumed consoles will die out as they become more and more like PCs but I guess there really is no obsoleting now that I think of it. Console games fucking suck though for the most part, that about does it for me.

I'd rather spend my time & money on something that isn't solely dedicated for entertainment value than waste money on a system with an annoying controller only to find 2-3 good games amassed amongst a heap of complete shit.

The shit to good ratio is just as high for the PC. Take a walk down the game aisle at Best Buy. Shelf after shelf of shit and maybe 10 decent ones.

If I still sat in front of my PC for days at a time playing games like I did through most of the 90's, I'd think PC games were superior but for my current play time and style, console games are way more fun for me. No installing/uninstalling, no steep learning curves, no wandering around doing nothing or fucking around in a huge glorified chatroom, no hunching over a keyboard and mouse and sitting 2ft from a blaringly bright monitor, etc.

Fuck PC gaming.

while there might be a ton of crap on the PC, there really is a TON of it. with one PC you have access to pretty much every game ever. where as you might have 20-30 games to choose from on a just-launched console. with a few games exclusive to each system.

the $500-$600 you'd blow on a ps3 could upgrade the fuck out of a PC. unless yours blows so much you need a new everything. i got some best buy gift cards over the holidays and used em on a geforce 7600 with a half gig of ram. cost less than a Wii w/ no games and Oblivion looks better than it would on the 360 unless i had an HD-TV.

plus i just like a keyboard/mouse over a controller, for anything but fighting games.

Thon wrote:while there might be a ton of crap on the PC, there really is a TON of it. with one PC you have access to pretty much every game ever. where as you might have 20-30 games to choose from on a just-launched console. with a few games exclusive to each system.

the $500-$600 you'd blow on a ps3 could upgrade the fuck out of a PC. unless yours blows so much you need a new everything. i got some best buy gift cards over the holidays and used em on a geforce 7600 with a half gig of ram. cost less than a Wii w/ no games and Oblivion looks better than it would on the 360 unless i had an HD-TV.

plus i just like a keyboard/mouse over a controller, for anything but fighting games.

except you forgot to add in how much you already paid for said PC


it's not like a vid card + ram is all you need to play a game, that's a retarded fucking statement


the thing that's going to change gaming more than anything else is the convergence of the TV/pc

before, the big knock on multiplayer PC was either it was across the net, or you'd huddle around a 17" monitor

now that you can plug a PC into a 40"+ LCD tv and have it look awesome, look for more and more PC's to move into the living room

I don't think it's really console vs PC anymore

now it's more console + pc for 1 converged device

true, there is a big investment initially, especially if you order from somewhere like Dell. but i got mine in 2002, and that vid card was the only upgrade i've ever put in it.

and for $600 you almost could get a new computer from somewhere like newegg. a 3 gig p4 for under $100, same vid card i got is about $130 there, and a gig of ram for about $100. with just under $300 left for anything else you'd need. and what else could you need, as long as there's already a complete PC there to upgrade from.

however...if the glacier you've been frozen in for the past 10,000 years just thawed and your buying your first PC, the consoles are cheaper.

Thon wrote:true, there is a big investment initially, especially if you order from somewhere like Dell. but i got mine in 2002, and that vid card was the only upgrade i've ever put in it.

and for $600 you almost could get a new computer from somewhere like newegg. a 3 gig p4 for under $100, same vid card i got is about $130 there, and a gig of ram for about $100. with just under $300 left for anything else you'd need. and what else could you need, as long as there's already a complete PC there to upgrade from.

however...if the glacier you've been frozen in for the past 10,000 years just thawed and your buying your first PC, the consoles are cheaper.

ps, you forgot about the $25-$75/month for internet so you can keep your PC up to date, and obtain the tons of shit pc games for "free"
you are never going to be able to argue that PC gaming is cheaper than console gaming(well, you could argue it mindia style I guess)

if you DL one game a month with bittorrent it about breaks even. i'm downloading Doom3 right now, just to revel in it. what happens to the cost analysis if you download a game every other day.

PC gaming will always have an audience with restless employees who slack off at work. I can't recall the countless times someone had alt-tabbed out of QuakeWorld due to their boss coming in, or the electrical engineer who wanted my EQ account info so he could power level my tank during his work hours while I was out, well...working.