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What would you do..

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:44 pm
by Lyion
In this scenario...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... ge_id=1770

Girl of 14 who was a boy until she was 12

From Tim to Kim: At 14, the blonde teenager says she dreams of moving to Paris and becoming a fashion designer

Even at the age of two, Tim insisted he was a girl trapped in a boy’s body.

And when puberty began to approach at the age of 12, he convinced his parents that something had to be done.

With their agreement, he became the youngest sex-change patient in the world, receiving hormone injections which arrested his male development.

Now, at 14, Tim has become Kim – a blue-eyed blonde with a growing bust line who is allowed to wear make-up at weekends.

She has no boyfriends at present but her parents say she is interested in what, now, is the opposite sex.

Her treatment, which has cost £18,000 so far, is being funded by the German taxpayer.

Psychiatrists treating her say she was an ‘exceptional case – a person clearly in the wrong body’, even though the decision to grant her wishes when she was so young is still the subject of intense debate.

Her identity and medical insurance cards have been changed to her new name and sex.

But she has not been placed at a different school in case of taunting from children who knew her as him in days gone by because, according to her parents, ‘her friends fully accept her as she is’.

She dresses in trendy clothes and told Germany’s Stern magazine that she ‘dreams of moving to Paris to become a fashion designer’.

The family’s full identity has not been made public. But Kim’s father, known as Lutz P, told Stern that as a child, Tim liked to play with Barbie dolls, enjoyed wearing dresses and, from the age of two, insisted that he was a girl.

‘We saw Kim as a girl, but not as a problem. Our life was surprisingly normal.’

Kim reacted badly to the first signs of puberty, he said.

‘At that stage we realised that she was terrified of growing facial hair and her voice breaking.’

Kim’s parents consulted psychiatrists across Germany.

Some condemned their support of their child’s desire to undergo a sex change, or suggested that she be kept under observation in a closed psychiatric ward.

But others agreed that the child should receive therapy, because growing up to be a man would have damaged her personality.

Dr Bern Meyenburg, the head of a clinic for children and adolescents with identity disturbances at Frankfurt University, concluded that the child was serious.

He wrote in his diagnosis: ‘Kim is a mentally well-developed child who appears happy and balanced.

‘There is no doubt of the determined wish, which was already detectable since early childhood. It would have been very wrong to let Kim grow up to be a man.

‘It is rare to have such a clear-cut case.’

The sex change will not become complete for another four years because while German law does not forbid hormone treatment for minors, they must be 18 before gender-transforming surgery can be carried out.

Dr Achim Wuesthof, who is treating Kim at a clinic in Hamburg, said: ‘To the best of my knowledge, Kim is the youngest sex-change patient in the world.

‘Imagine a man who suddenly starts growing breasts or a woman who starts growing a beard against their will – that is how Kim and people like her experience puberty.’

The UK’s youngest sex-change patient was Oliver Wheadon, from Wigton, Cumbria. He was 17 when he was granted the operation on the NHS four years ago and is now known as Angel Paris- Jordan.

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:49 pm
by Jay
Umm...wow...

Honestly, I don't know. I've talked to trannies before and it seems that in a lot of cases it's not sex related but more or less girl brain, boy body. Something akin to having parts they didn't think they should have or were confused as to why they had em at ages as young as 3. I don't know what I would do. I'm thinking I'd wait until they were older and let them make that decision on their own.

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:51 pm
by Menlaan
I'm not sure either. Sending her to a psych ward is clearly the wrong answer.

Out of curiosity, until she 'completes' the sex-change, what will happen with her genitalia? Will it develop normally? What a shock to whoever dates her!

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:31 pm
by araby
I heard about this on talk radio today. I disagree with allowing the operation until the person is 18 years old. I would base this on the fact that the child is going to grow some more. doesn't seem as though it would be okay to alter things until development is complete. if medical doctors/surgeons think development would be okay then I would agree to do it.

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:56 pm
by Jay
araby wrote:I heard about this on talk radio today. I disagree with allowing the operation until the person is 18 years old. I would base this on the fact that the child is going to grow some more. doesn't seem as though it would be okay to alter things until development is complete. if medical doctors/surgeons think development would be okay then I would agree to do it.


But the argument is that completed development would have severely scarred the person to development as a man.

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:13 pm
by Lyion
With their agreement, he became the youngest sex-change patient in the world, receiving hormone injections which arrested his male development


My understanding is nothing male is growing or developing, but there may be stuff missing here.

The bigger concern is allowing a very young person to make such an incredibly complex decision. That concerns me, although by all accounts this person has been consistent.

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:15 pm
by araby
oh...I could have read the initial post but realized I heard it on the radio so I didn't. obviously, I also did not hear that part.

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:50 pm
by Dylan
I'd hit it.

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:28 pm
by Tikker
I think it's pretty forward thinking by the parents to deal with it now, rather than refuse to deal with it and have the kid run off to let a back alley surgeon fix the problem

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:44 pm
by Lyion
Forward thinking? Or Reckless?

That's a huge decision for a very young child to make, and everyone changes as they mature.

I'm not saying what they are doing is wrong, I just think it's something that could easily come back and haunt them later...

Should Kim change her mind before the surgery, the procedure could be reversed. Doctors admit that the treatment involves a risk, however, and that its effects on children as young as Kim are not fully understood.

For legal reasons, the final stage – cosmetic surgery to remove the male genitalia – cannot take place until Kim is 18. Britain's youngest transsexual is Angel Paris-Jordan, who was granted an operation on the NHS at the age of 17

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:51 pm
by Thon
"she" should become a lesbian

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:52 pm
by Harrison
Because hey, there's absolutely nothing wrong with changing your sex at 12 :ugh:

Hell, let's just let 12 year olds do drugs, own guns, join the military, vote, drive, etc.!

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:11 pm
by runamonk
Them allowing their child to make this decision doesn't hurt anyone (if anyone at all) but the child. This isn't a decision that would be made lightly by anyone, not even a twelve year old.

I know back when I was twelve, I don't think I ever had to make any decisions nearly as hard as what this kid has already made.

While some people are scared and concerned about what others are doing, if it doesn't directly effect you, why do you care so much? Who does it hurt?

If more people had this same opportunity and will to do it, I think there might be a lot less fucked up people in this world.

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:20 am
by Tikker
lyion wrote:
That's a huge decision for a very young child to make, and everyone changes as they mature.


it's a huge decision for anyone, regardless of age

I don't there's really a right or wrong answer
just what people are willing to live with if the worst case scenario comes into play

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:18 am
by Gaazy
makes me sick to my stomach. Not only because he became a girl, which is bad enough as it is, but that the parents allowed a 12 year old to do this.

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:28 am
by Lyion
Tikker wrote:it's a huge decision for anyone, regardless of age

I don't there's really a right or wrong answer
just what people are willing to live with if the worst case scenario comes into play


Yeah, and at least the permanent part isn't until the person becomes 18, but it just concerns me that this was decided on at such a young age.

The parents are doing this in the best interests of the child, but it still is a hugely life altering decision being made be a 12 year old.